Cumbria Franchise

[RP London]

13 hours ago, richie keay said:

To be fair 1500 is a very good crowd for a relatively new team in League 1.

i'm assuming he means the team in the RU Championship.. the RL team in League 1 are not the pirates.

[Griff]

5 hours ago, RP London said:

i'm assuming he means the team in the RU Championship.. the RL team in League 1 are not the pirates.

Are they chough.

[RP London]

6 minutes ago, Griff said:

Are they chough.

[The 4 of Us]

Not sure if this has been posted, but it looks like the plans for the new Workington are advancing, as are Towns plans behind the scenes for the club itself. Looks like they’re not waiting for anyone else. 
 

https://cumbriacrack.com/2023/01/02/workington-town-chairman-says-new-stadium-vital/

 

https://www.cumberlandsportsvillage.org.uk

Edited April 26, 2023 by The 4 of Us

[hw88]

Cumbria used to have a SL team - Workington Town. 

No need to franchise.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

The Wests Tigers/ St George Illawarra model is actually feasible. As a couple of others have said, it doesn't need to impact the 3 existing clubs. 

I've visited the Cumbrian heartland areas too many times to count in over 20 years of playing/coaching against teams from up there and this conversation has been had...a lot. I feel like the views posted so far, by a few Cumbrians, would have you believe that the consensus is they're happy with their lot and no desire to have this Cumbrian SL team. That's not what I've heard for the most part. Anecdotally, many agree the hardest thing is deciding where they should play and I've heard before the idea of it being shared between the 3 clubs. The main obstacle to that is at the moment none of them are much better than Cas' ground, widely regarded as the worst in SL. My point is there isn't a lack of desire for this to happen, it just needs a decent financial backer, integration with the community clubs and some co-operation from the existing clubs - don't think that would be too hard to get if they're getting a near guarantee of 4/5 sell-out gates a season. 

Not to go all Martin Luther King here, but "I've had a dream!" of Cumbrian children binning their Wigan/Saints jerseys and wanting to pull on the green, white and blue! 

Edited April 27, 2023 by hunsletgreenandgold

[Davo5]

10 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

The Wests Tigers/ St George Illawarra model is actually feasible. As a couple of others have said, it doesn't need to impact the 3 existing clubs. 

I've visited the Cumbrian heartland areas too many times to count in over 20 years of playing/coaching against teams from up there and this conversation has been had...a lot. I feel like the views posted so far, by a few Cumbrians, would have you believe that the consensus is they're happy with their lot and no desire to have this Cumbrian SL team. That's not what I've heard for the most part. Anecdotally, many agree the hardest thing is deciding where they should play and I've heard before the idea of it being shared between the 3 clubs. The main obstacle to that is at the moment none of them are much better than Cas' ground, widely regarded as the worst in SL. My point is there isn't a lack of desire for this to happen, it just needs a decent financial backer, integration with the community clubs and some co-operation from the existing clubs, but I don't think that would be too hard to get if they're getting a near guarantee of 4/5 sell-out gates a season. 

Not to go all Martin Luther King here, but "I've dreamed a dream" of Cumbrian children binning their Wigan/Saints jerseys and wanting to pull on the green, white and blue! 

That’s because you’ve probably spoken to Cumbrian RL people involved at grassroots level who have a genuine wish to see the game grow & thrive up here & not the ever dwindling band of old men who can’t see past the end of their noses & would rather see the game die at the pro level than see a joint Cumbrian team

[Eddie]

Get Carlisle in super league now. 

[Davo5]

31 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Get Carlisle in super league now. 

Getting an actual team playing RL in the city might be a better option.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

26 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

That’s because you’ve probably spoken to Cumbrian RL people involved at grassroots level who have a genuine wish to see the game grow & thrive up here & not the ever dwindling band of old men who can’t see past the end of their noses & would rather see the game die at the pro level than see a joint Cumbrian team

I think you're probably (definitely!) right there. This isn't alien to me either - there are Hunslet diehards who would similarly see the demise of the club as a badge of honour, if it means no links to Leeds Rhinos - odd. The irony is that 'north of the river' Leeds do more for the community game in South Leeds than Hunslet ever have....but the blokes down at The Prospect (Hunslet pub) will still claim Leeds are stealing all the local talent and that been the reason Hunslet are in strife. 

[EggFace]

1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

The Wests Tigers/ St George Illawarra model is actually feasible. As a couple of others have said, it doesn't need to impact the 3 existing clubs. 

I've visited the Cumbrian heartland areas too many times to count in over 20 years of playing/coaching against teams from up there and this conversation has been had...a lot. I feel like the views posted so far, by a few Cumbrians, would have you believe that the consensus is they're happy with their lot and no desire to have this Cumbrian SL team. That's not what I've heard for the most part. Anecdotally, many agree the hardest thing is deciding where they should play and I've heard before the idea of it being shared between the 3 clubs. The main obstacle to that is at the moment none of them are much better than Cas' ground, widely regarded as the worst in SL. My point is there isn't a lack of desire for this to happen, it just needs a decent financial backer, integration with the community clubs and some co-operation from the existing clubs, but I don't think that would be too hard to get if they're getting a near guarantee of 4/5 sell-out gates a season. 

Not to go all Martin Luther King here, but "I've dreamed a dream" of Cumbrian children binning their Wigan/Saints jerseys and wanting to pull on the green, white and blue! 

I like the idea but seen it happen before in Rugby Union with the Borders team in Scotland Reivers and Wales Celtic Warriors and even now with Ospreys the crowds are shocking.

Wish something positive would give.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Get Carlisle in super league now. 

What were their crowds like when they were in the top division ?

[Eddie]

9 minutes ago, Griff said:

What were their crowds like when they were in the top division ?

I wasn’t serious. 

[Saint Toppy]

52 minutes ago, Griff said:

What were their crowds like when they were in the top division ?

Well their last ever game was a local derby against Workington which attracted the massive crowd of 453 

At least they only lost by a reasonable scoreline that day, I recall them playing Saints in the cup in the mid / late 80's and lost by 112 - 0.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

What were their crowds like when they were in the top division ?

Average 2,950 in their first season in the second division (team funded by Carlisle Utd’s sale of Peter Beardsley according to Wikipedia). No idea about top flight, probably a lot lower. 

[yanto]

4 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Well their last ever game was a local derby against Workington which attracted the massive crowd of 453 

At least they only lost by a reasonable scoreline that day, I recall them playing Saints in the cup in the mid / late 80's and lost by 112 - 0.

First season crowds in 81/82 were average at 3087 the second biggest in the second division beaten only by Halifax and higher than local rivals Town and Haven. Town  at home attracted 5903. Five thousand plus gates at home also v  Castleford and Oldham.

Twice v Cardiff ..strange one that (JPT and league ) and Salford got three thousand plus.

Lost four games and finished second behind Oldham to get promotion at the first attempt.

82/ 83 in the Championship (Now SL) they finished bottom with an average of 2170...again higher than Town.

You also forgot to mention in that 82/83 season they drew at Knowlsey Road in the Lancashire Cup 7-7 and lost the replay 5-9 with a crowd of 3406

Faced Saints again the CC losing 52-0 in front of 2875 at Knowsley Road !!!!!!!! 

Two league defeats 16-40 at home and 39-7 at Saints.

BUT lets remember the worst of the worst .

 

PS

They gave you the legend that is Dean Bell who arrived as a kid in 1982 from the Manukau club.

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by yanto

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

1 hour ago, yanto said:

First season crowds in 81/82 were average at 3087 the second biggest in the second division beaten only by Halifax and higher than local rivals Town and Haven. Town  at home attracted 5903. Five thousand plus gates at home also v  Castleford and Oldham.

Twice v Cardiff ..strange one that (JPT and league ) and Salford got three thousand plus.

Lost four games and finished second behind Oldham to get promotion at the first attempt.

82/ 83 in the Championship (Now SL) they finished bottom with an average of 2170...again higher than Town.

You also forgot to mention in that 82/83 season they drew at Knowlsey Road in the Lancashire Cup 7-7 and lost the replay 5-9 with a crowd of 3406

Faced Saints again the CC losing 52-0 in front of 2875 at Knowsley Road !!!!!!!! 

Two league defeats 16-40 at home and 39-7 at Saints.

BUT lets remember the worst of the worst .

 

PS

They gave you the legend that is Dean Bell who arrived as a kid in 1982 from the Manukau club.

 

Clayton Friend and Hitro Okesene made their names there too before going on to bigger things

[Derwent]

1 hour ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Clayton Friend and Hitro Okesene made their names there too before going on to bigger things

As did Steve Georgallis, Richard Henare, George Graham, Brad Hepi etc

[Derwent]

9 hours ago, Davo5 said:

That’s because you’ve probably spoken to Cumbrian RL people involved at grassroots level who have a genuine wish to see the game grow & thrive up here & not the ever dwindling band of old men who can’t see past the end of their noses & would rather see the game die at the pro level than see a joint Cumbrian team

We all know the only way forward for West Cumbria is a merged Town/Haven to form a strong Championship level club. Less dilution of the player pool, more sponsorship, bigger fan base etc. But nobody at either club wants to be the one to propose it for fear of being accused of “killing the club” by people who are in denial. They can’t see that both clubs are dying anyway, just very slowly. It’s a shame but unless it’s forced on them it’ll never happen.

[Davo5]

5 minutes ago, Derwent said:

We all know the only way forward for West Cumbria is a merged Town/Haven to form a strong Championship level club. Less dilution of the player pool, more sponsorship, bigger fan base etc. But nobody at either club wants to be the one to propose it for fear of being accused of “killing the club” by people who are in denial. They can’t see that both clubs are dying anyway, just very slowly. It’s a shame but unless it’s forced on them it’ll never happen.

No argument from me on any of that,a Superleague joint team is just fantasy but a  Championship team regularly competing in the playoffs & attracting the counties best young talent is very doable,we have to try or professional RL in West Cumbria will be dead within the next decade.

[GUBRATS]

19 minutes ago, Derwent said:

We all know the only way forward for West Cumbria is a merged Town/Haven to form a strong Championship level club. Less dilution of the player pool, more sponsorship, bigger fan base etc. But nobody at either club wants to be the one to propose it for fear of being accused of “killing the club” by people who are in denial. They can’t see that both clubs are dying anyway, just very slowly. It’s a shame but unless it’s forced on them it’ll never happen.

Playing where ?

[Derwent]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Playing where ?

At Championship level you could easily alternate between DP and the Rec, it’s only when you talk about SL that stadiums become an issue. If the proposed new stadium does get built in Workington then you have somewhere modern that could accommodate bigger games/attendances if necessary.

[gingerjon]

36 minutes ago, Derwent said:

As did Steve Georgallis, Richard Henare, George Graham, Brad Hepi etc

I was a regular at Carlisle when we lived near by in 1990-1993. A fantastic time and they came so close to something great.

I suspect nothing would really have come from it if things had gone their way but we might still have a Carlisle team in the same way that Sheffield Eagles are still there.

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Derwent said:

At Championship level you could easily alternate between DP and the Rec, it’s only when you talk about SL that stadiums become an issue. If the proposed new stadium does get built in Workington then you have somewhere modern that could accommodate bigger games/attendances if necessary.

Is it realistic to have a stadium only hosting 7/8 games a season ? 

[RP London]

2 hours ago, Derwent said:

We all know the only way forward for West Cumbria is a merged Town/Haven to form a strong Championship level club. Less dilution of the player pool, more sponsorship, bigger fan base etc. But nobody at either club wants to be the one to propose it for fear of being accused of “killing the club” by people who are in denial. They can’t see that both clubs are dying anyway, just very slowly. It’s a shame but unless it’s forced on them it’ll never happen.

Very interesting from someone with skin in the game... 

 

32 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Is it realistic to have a stadium only hosting 7/8 games a season ? 

Arguably with an artificial pitch/ hybrid and therefore the ability to rent it out etc maybe that would be ok as it has other income streams? 

No idea if that's viable etc but is it possible?