Report: 2025 World Cup on verge of collapse

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

This won't be a popular view with some here, but does the game really need those other three events?  They surely make hosting a World Cup most expensive but probably don't add much value (if any at all) to TV rights or sponsorship and so they're more or less just additional cost.

There could be legitimate reasons to have a Women's World Cup as many other sports have those too, but either have it as a standalone event like they do or don't bother.

My personal opinion is they don't need to be tied in with the mens World Cup. Of course this could change on a case by case basis depending on funding etc. I think the wheelchair and womens games in particular could be very successful in their own right and I would even argue that tieing these in with the men holds these events back.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Damien

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

My personal opinion is they don't need to be tied in with the mens World Cup. Of course this could change on a case by case basis depending on funding etc. I think the wheelchair and womens games in particular could be very successful in their own right and I would even argue that tieing these in with the men holds these events back.

Tying them together absolutely holds them back.

I can see why it was done but this is an opportunity to not keep doing it.

[JM2010]

I don’t think there is too much wrong with the organisation of the International game below tier 1. We have a Euros competition with p and r between the groups, a MEA competition which has a lot of potential to grow and introduce more groups like the Euros and an Americas Championship which has the same potential as the MEA. 
The only addition I’d make is to give the opportunity for the MEA and Americas champions to play against the top 3/4 European nations (excluding England). I’d also not include England knights in the Euros. 

These nations can also play mid season tests like what’s happening at the moment with Greece vs Serbia and Italy vs Serbia.

It’s the tier 1 nations that need more organised competition. The 6 Pacific nations and England need regular end of season tournaments.

 

[Jparrish]

8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

This won't be a popular view with some here, but does the game really need those other three events?  They surely make hosting a World Cup most expensive but probably don't add much value (if any at all) to TV rights or sponsorship and so they're more or less just additional cost.

There could be legitimate reasons to have a Women's World Cup as many other sports have those too, but either have it as a standalone event like they do or don't bother.

I've been wondering that myself. Flying all those teams in from across the world when they seem to offer little value to TV rights and tickets sales. 

The diversity and inclusiveness of the three tournaments probably helps get more in sponsorship but is that enough? I knows there's lots of non business arguments to be made for their inclusion. 

I'd suggest by "Scaling down' France just host the 16 team mens tournament.

England and or Australia could host/split a womans World cup and wheelchair WC ?

[The Partisan]

15 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

How about this? 

The winner of Eurovision has to hold the tournament? Re-sult

See you all in Sweden 2025

 

[Llangennech]

1 hour ago, The Partisan said:

See you all in Sweden 2025

 

2024. 

[The Partisan]

1 hour ago, LlanWests said:

2024. 

RLWC would be 2025 .... Unless that's been changed ! 

[ATLANTISMAN]

On 12/05/2023 at 11:56, welshmagpie said:

Paul what is expected to happen to teams who will qualify this autumn like Jamaica, Ireland etc.

They’ll qualify and then be told no?

I am in the dark as much as you are sitting here waiting for news

Paul

Edited May 14, 2023 by ATLANTISMAN

[Llangennech]

11 hours ago, The Partisan said:

RLWC would be 2025 .... Unless that's been changed ! 

thought you were on about the song contest, soz. 

[Jim from Oz]

Some stuff in here about possible RLWC in the US in 2029 (which I personally still think is a pipe dream):

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/why-nrl-can-finally-break-through-in-us-with-its-great-vegas-gamble-20230513-p5d84a.html

[Big Picture]

5 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

Some stuff in here about possible RLWC in the US in 2029 (which I personally still think is a pipe dream):

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/why-nrl-can-finally-break-through-in-us-with-its-great-vegas-gamble-20230513-p5d84a.html

The idea that staging a match or matches there between Sydney suburban teams will somehow break through in the US is a pipe dream too.

[Matterhorn]

Peter Sterling is still having nightmares about getting stuck running through the banner in the 1987 state of origin in the United States. That shows for how many years we have tried to crack the US sporting market.

[Damien]

7 hours ago, Matterhorn said:

Peter Sterling is still having nightmares about getting stuck running through the banner in the 1987 state of origin in the United States. That shows for how many years we have tried to crack the US sporting market.

The odd, very sporadic, match over 35 years is hardly the game trying to crack the US sporting market. We've had as many US governing bodies in that time as these games.

[JohnM]

The NFL seem to think it worth staging games in the UK, so what is wrong with NRL staging games in the US?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/may/10/jacksonville-jaguars-nfl-history-back-to-back-games-london

[Henson Park Old Firm]

We don't even know what the f☆€{ is going on in France and we already talking about "USA 29"

[gingerjon]

58 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The NFL seem to think it worth staging games in the UK, so what is wrong with NRL staging games in the US?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/may/10/jacksonville-jaguars-nfl-history-back-to-back-games-london

The AFL staged games in London leading to Aussie Rules being the most popular sport there by … oh, yeah, hang on … it just led to them not putting the games on because they really didn’t do anything positive for the sport.

[theswanmcr]

So according to LE and Catalan Media we’ll get confirmation that the World Cup is off today. Grim news indeed. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by theswanmcr

[Adelaide Tiger]

On 13/05/2023 at 20:41, HawkMan said:

No I'm not suggesting the England and France groups are made up of just northern hemisphere teams, or Oz and NZ are southern hemisphere teams only. They'd be some Northern travelling south and vice versa. The draw would not exactly be fixed but tailored to get a good competitive mix and taking into account factors like the Italy and Lebanon teams are made up of Aussies and should play in the Oz or NZ group.

Something like;

A England,  Tonga,  Scotland,  Jamaica ( played in England) 8pm local time / breakfast viewing in OZ/NZ

B France,  Samoa,  Fiji,  Greece ( played in France) 6pm local time. 6am approx viewing in OZ/NZ

C Australia, Lebanon,  Cook Islands, Wales( played in Australia) normal NRL KO times.

Morning viewing in England 

D New Zealand,  PNG, Ireland, Italy ( played in NZ) normal NRL KO times. Morning viewing in England 

QFINALS- Winners and Runners Up from groups A +B play in England and France 

Winners and Runners Up from groups C+D play in Australia and NZ 

SF- matches in QF played midweek then 10 day gap until SF in Australia. 

Winners from Northern hemisphere QF's given time to readjust before playing in Oz. 

QF Winners from Northern matches paired with Southern hemisphere Winners, thus avoiding an inevitable Australia vs NZ semi.

Then final following weekend.

K.O Rounds something like this;

QF England v Fiji ( in England)

     Samoa v Tonga ( in France)

     Australia v PNG ( in Australia)

    New Zealand v Lebanon ( in NZ)

SEMIS AND FINAL IN Australia 

England v NZ 

Australia v Samoa 

This is just a run down of how format would work.

 

Hi HawkMan.  I am someone who is always interested in reading new ideas and I am willing to consider their merits unlike some on here who will just poo-poo something because it is different and some are afraid of what non RL followers will think.

What I like about the proposal is that it gives the opportunity to hold the WC across four countries which takes away the financial requirements to hold a full 16 team tournament.  It also gives countries like France and NZ the opportunity to see their team play 3 - possibly four if they qualify for the QF - internationals at home which is a rarity - although you could also say that about England and Australia to a lesser extent.

One issue about the last WC was the poor attendances in the group game phase.  Your format also provides the opportunity to see an increase in attendances as each home nation will be competing in 3 of the 6 group games and possibly in the QF.  The seedings for the quarter finals is a simple solution.

Just nit-picking here but my only change would be to hold a semi-final draw straight after the QF’s.

Every four years the SF and Final stage are held in opposite hemispheres.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Adelaide Tiger

[JohnM]

47 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The AFL staged games in London leading to Aussie Rules being the most popular sport there by … oh, yeah, hang on … it just led to them not putting the games on because they really didn’t do anything positive for the sport.

Still a long term discussion/ project, though. One difference being the amount of money the NFL has put in already and the high level attendance these games have attracted already 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-floats-wild-idea-of-possibly-putting-four-teams-in-europe-as-part-of-major-international-expansion/

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

So according to LE and Catalan Media we’ll get confirmation that the World Cup is off today. Grim news indeed. 

Yes. It boils down to “really not good”.

[Dave T]

I'm not sure why we have tried to run before we can walk here. The festival of world cups is a nice idea, but this has to be paid for. Costs and logistics must be really challenging to stage four WC's at the same time, and as a sport we just haven't built up any partners that invest serious money to cover this. 

We've grown the cup to feature more and more teams, including some that are not really much more than invitational teams, without doing much groundwork. 

It really is the same old story. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure why we have tried to run before we can walk here. The festival of world cups is a nice idea, but this has to be paid for. Costs and logistics must be really challenging to stage four WC's at the same time, and as a sport we just haven't built up any partners that invest serious money to cover this. 

We've grown the cup to feature more and more teams, including some that are not really much more than invitational teams, without doing much groundwork. 

It really is the same old story. 

Yes that's what I said previously. Fair enough RLWC2021 got the funding for that the last time but it shouldn't necessarily be the norm. The game should certainly be able to make the women's and wheelchair games profitable events in their own right and attract funding for these separately.

[Damien]

Its good to be ambitious but not when it holds the game back and is detrimental to a World Cup actually taking place. Its similar to the RLPA negotiating for Australia players to get $20k a match which meant that Australia refused to play games, because they couldn't make them pay financially, or nothing is organised for the PI nations (outside Tonga now) because the RLPA wants to negotiate playing fees for international players. Never mind if the international game is built up to a level to actually be able to pay for these things and that it actually just stops international games from happening.

RL administrators need to put much more effort into actually making the international game work, every single year, or in a decade we will be having the same conversation. As we did after 1995. As we did when the 4 Nations finished. As we did after 2013. As we are doing now.

[JM2010]

Why can’t RL just get a plan in place and stick to it. Doesn’t have to be too flash to start with. Tournaments can expand as other teams improve but just get regular competitions in place and add teams when they’re ready.

As I said earlier, we already have Euros, Americas and MEA so just keep them as annual tournaments and hopefully they’ll grow in size and stature. Let the top teams from these tournaments play some kind of competition every 2/4 years and when any are ready to step up to a tier 1 comp then include them in it. 

The big problem is the organisation of games between tier 1 nations. Is it too difficult to organise a 4 year plan for these nations?

 

[crashmon]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

The NFL seem to think it worth staging games in the UK, so what is wrong with NRL staging games in the US?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/may/10/jacksonville-jaguars-nfl-history-back-to-back-games-london

there is no following for RL in the US, there is in the UK.

For instance the NFL started showing games in the UK in the mid 80's on Channel 4, which had great ratings (i still remember watching Superbowl 20 on C4 Giants vs Broncos, Simms vs Elway).  The first NFL game in London was in 2007, 20 years after the games started to be shown on TV, so it was a no brainer that the game would sell out.

Are CBS or ESPN or FOX US covering NRL games, do they get good ratings, is there an awareness of the NRL in the US, like there is of NFL in the UK? I don't think so.   I'd even argue that if you asked people outside the M62 who was the superbowl champs vs Superleague Grand final champs, more people would answer Kansas than Saints.

So taking NRL to US would be a damp sqib probably, unless you go to Toroto which at least has some awareness of RL