Sat 22 July : Betfred RL Challenge Cup Semi Final : St Helens v Leigh Leopards KO 14:30 BBC1

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's not the fact that strong teams make finals. I think that's a disingenuous take.

It's the fact that the same teams have been said strong teams for a prolonged period of time, which reduces variety of 50% of the finalists.

The other 50% are very well mixed, which is great. We just need to get the other 50% mixed a bit more now and it'll show how the strength of the club game is improving.

There will be another carefully crafted issue at that point. 

I grew up watching Wigan win year after year and people had a real issue with monopolies like that. Now we have a cup which has had 11 finalists and 6 different winners in the last decade and it still isn't enough. 

Back in 1990 if yiu were promised that you'd absolutely grab it. 

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Isn't it more the case that a team that doesn't normally make a final has reminded us how great variety is? 

I'm not saying saying there isn't 'some' variety....just saying it would be good if there was more ...that is the ideal 

Have you missed the recent finals where Salford, Catalans, Hull, Hull KR, Cas etc made them? 

[Old Frightful]

1 hour ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

A reminder to Leigh supporters - unless you take at least 20000 supporters to the final the RFL will insist that you post a £500k bond if you want to take part next year.

If Hull KR win today Leigh will probably have more than that amount from West Hull cheering them on.

[JohnM]

57 minutes ago, BadlyOverdrawnBoy said:

De la Salle?

Salford Technical High School.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

There will be another carefully crafted issue at that point. 

I grew up watching Wigan win year after year and people had a real issue with monopolies like that. Now we have a cup which has had 11 finalists and 6 different winners in the last decade and it still isn't enough. 

Back in 1990 if yiu were promised that you'd absolutely grab it. 

Things can always be more varied. It's not that it's "not enough". It's the uniqueness. That's why 2009 was great, because it was more unique than we'd had in a long time.

One of the things NRL used to be praised for on these boards was the variety of winners and finalists.

It's amazing Leigh have made it. It would be even more unique if Rovers made it too.

Picking a combination of finalists is always difficult. But one of those finalists being 1 of 4 teams is almost a certainty (in both comps). Chance to break that duck today.

 

[GUBRATS]

19 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

You mean Saints players played exactly as they always do

So great to see their grubby play exposed for what it is 

Wellens has taken it to a new level this year ....

I posted last week that in the match against the Dragons Saints were turning into ' Wigan ' , more in the. Messing about at the PTB than the poor tackling technique 

[GUBRATS]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Have you missed the recent finals where Salford, Catalans, Hull, Hull KR, Cas etc made them? 

And lost , that's the point Dave , loads of different finalists , but still the same winners , with a knock out competition you'll always get a variety of finalists , due simply to the draw 

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, dkw said:

I thought the passi one could be classed as reckless at worst, there's no way on earth he's meant to "do" him, it's just a player desperately doing anything to stop a try. Whether that leads to a ban is anyones guess with the roll 2 dice disciplinary board we have.

That’s my take as well - desperation rather than malicious. But it really doesn’t look pretty with one leg off the ground hitting through Paasi’s standing leg. It’s pretty reckless IMO. 

I just hope he doesn’t miss the final if the disciplinary board do take action; he was fantastic yesterday.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

And lost , that's the point Dave , loads of different finalists , but still the same winners , with a knock out competition you'll always get a variety of finalists , due simply to the draw 

I mean this is wrong. We've had Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Wire, Hull, Catalans all win in the last decade. 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

That’s my take as well - desperation rather than malicious. But it really doesn’t look pretty with one leg off the ground hitting through Paasi’s standing leg. It’s pretty reckless IMO. 

I just hope he doesn’t miss the final if the disciplinary board do take action; he was fantastic yesterday.

He hits the thigh , not the knee , where is he supposed to tackle ? , Always a problem with players the size of Passi, Walmsley and the like , too much weight , as I put earlier , Saints need to learn how to bend their backs 

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Things can always be more varied. It's not that it's "not enough". It's the uniqueness. That's why 2009 was great, because it was more unique than we'd had in a long time.

One of the things NRL used to be praised for on these boards was the variety of winners and finalists.

It's amazing Leigh have made it. It would be even more unique if Rovers made it too.

Picking a combination of finalists is always difficult. But one of those finalists being 1 of 4 teams is almost a certainty (in both comps). Chance to break that duck today.

 

Was 2009 great? It was a tougher sell ticket wise and certainly doesn't go down as any kind of classic final or memorable really other than for Wire fans I expect. 

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

Ooooo Bus Porn now your talking

I've started a new AOB topic: Bus Porn, as it merits a discussion all its own. 

[wiganermike]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Have you missed the recent finals where Salford, Catalans, Hull, Hull KR, Cas etc made them? 

I think that when it gets to the semi final stage then everyone tends to have a preference for the teams that haven't often contested finals or haven't been in one for a long time getting through. It can then be easy for people to complain about the prospect of yet another final for Wigan/Saints/Leeds/Wire with those teams having appeared regularly in recent years, even though they have only rarely featured against each other. I have done so myself when there has been a prospect of a final featuring two of the four.

Whoever wins the second semi final we will get to see a final that we have never seen before as Leigh have never played Hull KR or Wigan in a CC final. Last year's final featured Wigan as many have but was the first Wigan v Huddersfield final in 102 years. I think perhaps people get a bit too hung up on the thought of at least one of Wigan/Saints/Leeds/Wire reaching the final rather than the variety or infrequency of the match-ups that do occur in finals whether or not one or more of those four are involved.

[meast]

Quick question for the Leythers regarding the Asiata tackles- had they been by, say Knowles, Lees, Matau'tia and injured Ipape, Lam or Asiata himself, would there still be nothing wrong and the game's soft etc or would you think that 2 of your best players could be out injured due to reckless tackling techniques?

[Old Frightful]

19 hours ago, northamptoncougar said:

Anyone see the lady with the Leopard print coat watching the game through a magnifying glass?

[meast]

10 hours ago, corvusxiii said:

You say that but 3-1 at half time then two penalties to Leigh altered the game. No penalties- No Game. 

Tbf I'm less interested in the genuine, reasonable  penalties for a given team than non penalties against the same team. Consider. 

It's down to the players to not concede penalties not for the ref to not blow for them.

Not sure how giving penalties for infringements altered the game either?

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, meast said:

Quick question for the Leythers regarding the Asiata tackles- had they been by, say Knowles, Lees, Matau'tia and injured Ipape, Lam or Asiata himself, would there still be nothing wrong and the game's soft etc or would you think that 2 of your best players could be out injured due to reckless tackling techniques?

How many similar tackles did John do in that game ? , Count them up , you'll be well past 20 , Passi was running hard , John was hitting hard , big man digs his feet in for a big effort , tackler is desperate to hit hard to stop him 

Simple as that , as for your mentioned Saints players , highly unlikely , their targets are generally the head , count them up while your at it , there'll be more of them than dangerous tackles by John 

[meast]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Point out what law states those tackles were illegal, if Mr Kendall who is a stickler of playing the game by the rules adjudged them to be fine then they must have been, surely you being a champion of the officials when everyone and sundry criticises them must agree with that!

I haven't said they were illegal, I said they were dangerous and reckless calm down old lad.

And aren't all officials sticklers for the rules? it's their job after all?

I'm pretty sure 98% of RL players and fans wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of those tackles, legal or not.

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

She's a regular 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

34 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Things can always be more varied. It's not that it's "not enough". It's the uniqueness. That's why 2009 was great, because it was more unique than we'd had in a long time.

One of the things NRL used to be praised for on these boards was the variety of winners and finalists.

It's amazing Leigh have made it. It would be even more unique if Rovers made it too.

Picking a combination of finalists is always difficult. But one of those finalists being 1 of 4 teams is almost a certainty (in both comps). Chance to break that duck today.

 

Which is why I think I actually want Rovers to win today.

And it would give Tom Briscoe a chance to put 5 more tries on them in the final!

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

46 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Have you missed the recent finals where Salford, Catalans, Hull, Hull KR, Cas etc made them? 

The key stat is that only 3 current SL sides have won the main prize 

Forget finals ...we need a bigger spread of champions 

Leigh winning SL would be a great start 

[meast]

49 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

How many similar tackles did John do in that game ? , Count them up , you'll be well past 20 , Passi was running hard , John was hitting hard , big man digs his feet in for a big effort , tackler is desperate to hit hard to stop him 

Simple as that , as for your mentioned Saints players , highly unlikely , their targets are generally the head , count them up while your at it , there'll be more of them than dangerous tackles by John 

If he did over 20 similar tackles then I imagine he would need to be working very hard on his technique!

And it doesn't really answer the question, as a Leigh fan, would you be happy to dismiss those tackles if it was 2 of your better players who were injured by them?

[meast]

42 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

The key stat is that only 3 current SL sides have won the main prize 

Forget finals ...we need a bigger spread of champions 

Leigh winning SL would be a great start 

Leigh winning SL would be a story but also a massive irony as a lot of Leigh fans have been particularly vocal and critical of "sooper dooper league" on this forum over the years.

I imagine most of them think it's great now it isn't the closed shop, chosen few clubs they believed it was.

Edited July 23, 2023 by meast

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, meast said:

If he did over 20 similar tackles then I imagine he would need to be working very hard on his technique!

And it doesn't really answer the question, as a Leigh fan, would you be happy to dismiss those tackles if it was 2 of your better players who were injured by them?

He was tackling ' legs ' all game , in fact the rest of Leigh were doing the same , so how come Saints had any players still left on the pitch ? , And just as an aside , why was the Saints Club captain not playing yesterday ? , Could it be because he injured himself tackling a Dragons player last week , where in fact his head contacted the other players knee , surely Roby should have got a ban ? 

Or is it only a dangerous tackle if a player gets Injured ? , If we are going down that route we are finished as a sport 

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, meast said:

Leigh winning SL would be a story but also a massive irony as a lot of Leigh fans have been particularly vocal and critical of "sooper dooper league" on this forum over the years.

I imagine most of them think it's great now it isn't the closed shop, chosen few clubs they believed it was.

If Leigh finish bottom next year we should get relegated , if the Giants finish bottom next year ( or this) they should be relegated , you ' ok ' with this ? 

Just a point , it's not me who brought this up , I won't comment further on P and R discussion on here 

Edited July 23, 2023 by GUBRATS