Sat 22 July : Betfred RL Challenge Cup Semi Final : St Helens v Leigh Leopards KO 14:30 BBC1

[Harry Stottle]

37 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Huge well done to Leigh,they're having a fantastic season and truly deserve all the accolades they're getting.

Enjoy Wembley guys it's an unbelievable feeling to be a supporter of one of the 'smaller clubs' reaching the cup final.

Yesterday reminded me of a semi-final i attended at that ground in 2009, that was also against Saints, who were also expected to win easily and we're beaten on the day by a much more determined side

Still think those kits and that merchandise is absolutely horrible, the crowd shots looked like a 75 year olds hen do in Blackpool!!

 

 

I would wager that is expierence talking, did you go to the Tower Ballroom?

[daz39]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I would wager that is expierence talking, did you go to the Tower Ballroom?

My mother isn't even close to 75 so definitely not through experience !!!!

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

be interesting to see how many leigh fail to bring to wembley and how much the sport loses as a result.

I bet you couldn't eat your tea after that result Lenny! To bad.

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, daz39 said:

My mother isn't even close to 75 so definitely not through experience !!!!

Not your mother, it was you I was referring to

[daz39]

I have been nowhere near a 75 year olds hen do, i am presuming itwould look like a leigh crowd though!

[Lowdesert]

24 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Didn't think we would ever get to the point where a tackler leading with the shoulder to the legs of a ball carrier would be a foul.

Indeed, because that’s essential, but in the context I’ve given (not attempting to engage his arms) it looks to me the same as a shoulder charge.  I thought he would have a case to answer when watching it live.  We will see.

For the Paasi tackle he did what I would want a team mate to do - put his body on the line.  I wouldn’t criticise him for the effort one bit or the effect but with slow motion analysis the disciplinary have see he has a case to answer.

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Lowdesert

[Irish Saint]

Congratulations  to Leigh. Saints hae no one to blame apart from their own indiscipline once again.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, daz39 said:

I have been nowhere near a 75 year olds hen do, i am presuming itwould look like a leigh crowd though!

Still be more there than a match at the whatever it's called stadium in Huddersfield

[Lowdesert]

2 minutes ago, Irish Saint said:

Congratulations  to Leigh. Saints hae no one to blame apart from their own indiscipline once again.

Both teams can be proud of their efforts imo.  As good a game as I’ve seen for a long time.

[Tommygilf]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

A cannonball tackle is performed on a man stood still being held by teammates, on both occasions Asiata is the first man in the tackle and on both occasions the tackled player is in motion.

Hence why I said same effect not the same as.

[phiggins]

7 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Indeed, because that’s essential, but in the context I’ve given (not attempting to engage his arms) it looks to me the same as a shoulder charge.  I thought he would have a case to answer when watching it live.  We will see.

For the Paasi tackle he did what I would want a team mate to do - put his body on the line.  I wouldn’t criticise him for the effort one bit or the effect but with slow motion analysis the disciplinary have see he has a case to answer.

 

Look at the image that Derwent posted earlier in the thread. He does wrap his arms around. I think injury is down to being tackled by two players in opposite directions. I’ve no idea what the disciplinary implications are for that. Will find out tomorrow

[Segovia Carpet]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

How many similar tackles did John do in that game ? , Count them up , you'll be well past 20 , Passi was running hard , John was hitting hard , big man digs his feet in for a big effort , tackler is desperate to hit hard to stop him 

Simple as that , as for your mentioned Saints players , highly unlikely , their targets are generally the head , count them up while your at it , there'll be more of them than dangerous tackles by John 

Gubrats quite rightly enjoying the win.

[Lowdesert]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Had they been by Knowles, Lee's or Matau'tia, then they would have been performed within the rules of the game, no qualms from me.

To be fair, those tackles have been Matautias stock in trade for some time, it’s just that yesterday he chose another option and it backfired on him.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Segovia Carpet said:

Gubrats quite rightly enjoying the win.

Certainly am , had a total of 5 pints over a 10 hour day yesterday , witnessed something I didn't think I ever would see , so very happy , a couple of pints later and a HKR win will make for a near perfect weekend , shame for my son he's at Old Trafford right now 

[Superb Chops]

5 hours ago, Szymala said:

What a job Adrian Lam has done in 2 stellar seasons - quite a showdown/story if he faces the club that sacked him at Wembley....

 

 

Very true on Lam's excellent work at Leigh.

But not true about him being sacked at Wigan. He was given two consecutive contracts over three years there and completed both. 

It's likely Wigan chairman Ian Lenegan will stand down at the end of the season without sacking a single coach. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, The Masked Poster said:

That’s not really a bad turnover of winners but the perception is still that the “same old faces” win the cup. That said, Warrington weren’t in this club until relatively recently!

I think people looking for negatives like the size of the crowd, should KR win today are not seeing the wider picture. Something like ‘Rovers win cup for first time since Jurassic era’ can generate their own stories and publicity which can outweigh any smaller crowd on a given day. 

Interestingly, crowds were bigger when Wigan used to dominate. 

I actually think the majority would rather see Wigan v Leigh than Leigh v KR tbh. 

Maybe not us anoraks, but I expect ticket sales on neutrals, sponsors and tv viewers would support the view. 

[hullste]

40 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Look at the image that Derwent posted earlier in the thread. He does wrap his arms around. I think injury is down to being tackled by two players in opposite directions. I’ve no idea what the disciplinary implications are for that. Will find out tomorrow

We can all take a still frame to support an argument, you need to see the challenge on real time but the initial contact was with the head directly to the side of the knee with force and the hands only came round afterwards. No doubt he was putting his own body on the line to stop a potential try but he has a duty of care, we will see what the MRP say??

[GUBRATS]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Interestingly, crowds were bigger when Wigan used to dominate. 

I actually think the majority would rather see Wigan v Leigh than Leigh v KR tbh. 

Maybe not us anoraks, but I expect ticket sales on neutrals, sponsors and tv viewers would support the view. 

But that's just the normal anti Wigan feeling coming to the fore Dave 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, hullste said:

We can all take a still frame to support an argument, you need to see the challenge on real time but the initial contact was with the head directly to the side of the knee with force and the hands only came round afterwards. No doubt he was putting his own body on the line to stop a potential try but he has a duty of care, we will see what the MRP say??

James Roby did the same last week , direct contact head to knee , no ban , your opinion on it ? 

[phiggins]

4 minutes ago, hullste said:

We can all take a still frame to support an argument, you need to see the challenge on real time but the initial contact was with the head directly to the side of the knee with force and the hands only came round afterwards. No doubt he was putting his own body on the line to stop a potential try but he has a duty of care, we will see what the MRP say??

All we can do really. If he wasn’t the first man in the tackle, I’d be saying definitely a card and ban. As it is, I don’t think it can be described as malicious as there’s no way he’d be weighing up where he could cause damage in that situation, just wanted to make the tackle. If he cops a game or two, would see where they are coming from. Anything longer than that I think would be extremely harsh 

[ELBOWSEYE]

5 hours ago, hindle xiii said:

Just to keep it on topic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland_Leopard

 

Now you're taking me back Leyland leopards, maybe they should travel in one wrapped in leopard print,now that's an entrance.

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But that's just the normal anti Wigan feeling coming to the fore Dave 

Most don't care about that stuff. Wigan are a big name to casual sports fans. 

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

If it isn't already I expect it will be in the near future. It was reckless and had the same effect of a cannonball tackle.

 

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Indeed, because that’s essential, but in the context I’ve given (not attempting to engage his arms) it looks to me the same as a shoulder charge.  I thought he would have a case to answer when watching it live.  We will see.

For the Paasi tackle he did what I would want a team mate to do - put his body on the line.  I wouldn’t criticise him for the effort one bit or the effect but with slow motion analysis the disciplinary have see he has a case to answer.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think they were both ugly tackles... the second in particular. 

But I don't believe that this is where the shoulder charge law plays through, on the second he held the leg and on the first he was front on.

And we cannot classify them as cannonball tackles as that is attacking the legs of a standing player. 

So I just don't see which laws were broken.

If they are deemed worthy of punishment then fair enough but the game will get immeasurably harder to referee and define foul play if we punish a player putting his body in front of a ball carrier.

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, phiggins said:

All we can do really. If he wasn’t the first man in the tackle, I’d be saying definitely a card and ban. As it is, I don’t think it can be described as malicious as there’s no way he’d be weighing up where he could cause damage in that situation, just wanted to make the tackle. If he cops a game or two, would see where they are coming from. Anything longer than that I think would be extremely harsh 

That's fair. I think it may be one of those things that gets charged under dangerous tackle or something if he does get charged, but I think there may be future guidelines on this, as there now is on very many other tackles that were previously technically legal. 

I think the level of force aimed at the knee joint is what makes it unusual, and not Like others where players sometimes get it wrong. 

But I could see any outcome tbh, no case to answer, a caution, a minor charge or a serious ban. We have to allow the process to play out. 

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Most don't care about that stuff. Wigan are a big name to casual sports fans. 

As I have said before, if we want casual sports fans to be interested then we need names.  Just as Man City vs. Arsenal is a bigger FA Cup final than Burnley vs. Crystal Palace so is St Helens vs. Wigan.

But if Rugby League fans would love to see Leigh vs. HkR then it is up to Rugby League fans to pack out the final.