Sat 22 July : Betfred RL Challenge Cup Semi Final : St Helens v Leigh Leopards KO 14:30 BBC1

[hullste]

22 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

James Roby did the same last week , direct contact head to knee , no ban , your opinion on it ? 

Two totally different tackles, Roby attempting to make a normal tackle gets his head in the wrong place as we've seen with many challenges. Asiata throws himself low with little or no regard to his own safety or that of the attacker. Not seen enough of him to know if that is his normal technique or not but he has a duty of care and if everyone starts targeting knees with force  there are going to be lots of serious, potentially career ending injuries.

[Lowdesert]

6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I think they were both ugly tackles... the second in particular. 

But I don't believe that this is where the shoulder charge law plays through, on the second he held the leg and on the first he was front on.

And we cannot classify them as cannonball tackles as that is attacking the legs of a standing player. 

So I just don't see which laws were broken.

If they are deemed worthy of punishment then fair enough but the game will get immeasurably harder to referee and define foul play if we punish a player putting his body in front of a ball carrier.

I don’t believe Reffing is any harder.  They are just calling it as they think and the disciplinary do the rest or they go to the video ref.  

Weve seen numerous charges made by the disciplinary mentioning wrapping the arms around the ball carrier. (Not sure the exact words used).  Imo this approach will be considered by the panel.  
 

Whatever the outcome I doubt there will be ground breaking punishment by any stretch and it could be just as you say, no laws broken.  I think he’ll get punished though.
 

 

[Lowdesert]

9 minutes ago, hullste said:

Two totally different tackles, Roby attempting to make a normal tackle gets his head in the wrong place as we've seen with many challenges. Asiata throws himself low with little or no regard to his own safety or that of the attacker. Not seen enough of him to know if that is his normal technique or not but he has a duty of care and if everyone starts targeting knees with force  there are going to be lots of serious, potentially career ending injuries.

Just genuinely playing devils advocate here - what would you have said if this had been a Leigh player on the receiving end?  

[binosh]

Nothing wrong with either of these tackles IMO, gets down low, first man in shoulder first and clearly wraps the arms, if he doesn’t do the one on Paasi which the commentators were raving about Leigh lose that game.

Interestingly, with the new rules set to come out on tackling below the chest tackles like these will probably become the new normal. It’s just unlucky Paasi has injured himself.

[StandOffHalf]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

IMO he’ll get done for both. For the 1st, on Walmsley, Asiata drops his arms to lead with the shoulder.  No intention to ‘wrap’ or use his arms - straightforward shoulder charge on the leg.

For the second, I though he was just getting his body in the way and had his head in the wrong place but after watching it again, he dives in and has his head facing down to the ground before contact.  From the video, that gives strong doubt Asiata is even looking at the target.  It’s extremely careless and he has no control.

He could glean some support from the 2nd saying that he just got his head in the wrong place and his positioning was wrong but the ‘head/eyes’ down action will, again imo, condemn him.

 

Interesting to hear your thoughts. They largely align with how I saw things.

[GUBRATS]

26 minutes ago, hullste said:

Two totally different tackles, Roby attempting to make a normal tackle gets his head in the wrong place as we've seen with many challenges. Asiata throws himself low with little or no regard to his own safety or that of the attacker. Not seen enough of him to know if that is his normal technique or not but he has a duty of care and if everyone starts targeting knees with force  there are going to be lots of serious, potentially career ending injuries.

A normal tackle ? , Explain a normal tackle ? , His head hit the opponents knee 

Just because he hurt himself it's not a foul ? 

Percival made head contact with the Dragons player , should get a ban 

[StandOffHalf]

7 minutes ago, binosh said:

Nothing wrong with either of these tackles IMO, gets down low, first man in shoulder first and clearly wraps the arms, if he doesn’t do the one on Paasi which the commentators were raving about Leigh lose that game.

Interestingly, with the new rules set to come out on tackling below the chest tackles like these will probably become the new normal. It’s just unlucky Paasi has injured himself.

Thanks for the images. The position of his right arm on the Paasi one isn't as bad as I feared.

Not a fan of shoulders into knees, but he does have a fairly strong defence.

[StandOffHalf]

I thought the Walmsley one was a tad more pre-meditated, if you will. Front-on and into the knee.

I cut him a lot of slack for the Paasi one - flying across to chop down a rampaging big man. That's just effort, and perhaps his low tackling technique.

[binosh]

The only thing I can see wrong in the Paasi one is Asiata puts his own head in to the front instead of to the back, this is realistically more dangerous for Asiata and a HIA than it is for Paasi. He came onto that ball so fast and Asiata hit him so hard it was  like a car crash and purely bad luck.

[binosh]

1 minute ago, StandOffHalf said:

I thought the Walmsley one was a tad more pre-meditated, if you will. Front-on and into the knee.

I cut him a lot of slack for the Paasi one - flying across to chop down a rampaging big man. That's just effort, and perhaps his low tackling technique.

The Walmesley one is about as perfect head on tackle as you’ll see, these are big men hitting each other, if Asiata had knocked himself out or pops a shoulder no one bats an eyelid.

[StandOffHalf]

3 minutes ago, binosh said:

The Walmesley one is about as perfect head on tackle as you’ll see, these are big men hitting each other, if Asiata had knocked himself out or pops a shoulder no one bats an eyelid.

If he careens shoulder-first into fellow big men with his arm tucked, he will eventually do himself some nasty damage.

Arm up and wrap. I obviously disagree on that being a perfect tackle yesterday.

[Lowdesert]

18 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Interesting to hear your thoughts. They largely align with how I saw things.

Difficult to not pat him on the back for both tackles mate but 2 instances of a similar action with (and we don’t know yet) season ending injuries?
 

 

[hindle xiii]

May I introduce you all to the phrase "agree to disagree".

[daz39]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Still be more there than a match at the whatever it's called stadium in Huddersfield

No need for that, i was actually praising your team getting to the cup final, but if you wish to somehow turn that into a dig at Huddersfield's crowds - I hope you get smashed now and it's Wigan that do it

[binosh]

18 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

If he careens shoulder-first into fellow big men with his arm tucked, he will eventually do himself some nasty damage.

Arm up and wrap. I obviously disagree on that being a perfect tackle yesterday.

Surely by your own definition shoulder first is practically a perfect tackle technique? Shoulder first is trained into rugby players all their lives. It’s only at the elite level wrestling and slowing down is taught for a competitive edge.

Anyway everyone has an opinion.

[LeeF]

57 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Just genuinely playing devils advocate here - what would you have said if this had been a Leigh player on the receiving end?  

The Leigh player shouldn’t have led with his knee into the defender’s shoulder

[daz39]

2 hours ago, Irish Saint said:

Congratulations  to Leigh. Saints hae no one to blame apart from their own indiscipline once again.

Surely the ref had a shocker? isn't that always the case to the losing sides fans or those who wanted the losing team to win?

Though at 1st it was the winning teams fans who thought he did rude things to himself, weird how perceptions and opinions change depending on the scoreline.

 

[meast]

1 hour ago, binosh said:

Nothing wrong with either of these tackles IMO, gets down low, first man in shoulder first and clearly wraps the arms, if he doesn’t do the one on Paasi which the commentators were raving about Leigh lose that game.

Interestingly, with the new rules set to come out on tackling below the chest tackles like these will probably become the new normal. It’s just unlucky Paasi has injured himself.

There could also be a claim that both are leading with the shoulder with arms down by his side.

It will be very interesting what the MRP make of them though.

 

[Snowys Backside]

1 hour ago, meast said:

There could also be a claim that both are leading with the shoulder with arms down by his side.

It will be very interesting what the MRP make of them though.

 

Why should any of these tackles be reviewed ?

Asiatas technique is probably borderline suicidal for his own health !

The amount of shoulder charges going unpunished though from St Helens, especially Lees, is becoming laughable but to give him credit, he embraced Amone at the end of the game and gave him a thumbs up. Can’t knock that. 

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, daz39 said:

No need for that, i was actually praising your team getting to the cup final, but if you wish to somehow turn that into a dig at Huddersfield's crowds - I hope you get smashed now and it's Wigan that do it

You suggested our crowd would be the same size and fashion of a 75yr olds hen party , not very many is it ?  

And to think I was gutted last year when Marshall scored at the death 

[GUBRATS]

14 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Why should any of these tackles be reviewed ?

Asiatas technique is probably borderline suicidal for his own health !

The amount of shoulder charges going unpunished though from St Helens, especially Lees, is becoming laughable but to give him credit, he embraced Amone at the end of the game and gave him a thumbs up. Can’t knock that. 

As I put , Roby does similar and everybody's upset he hurt himself , nobody gets injured , nobody's bothered , player injured , everybody's bothered , is that where we want to go ? 

[daz39]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

You suggested our crowd would be the same size and fashion of a 75yr olds hen party , not very many is it ?  

And to think I was gutted last year when Marshall scored at the death 

No i said a section of them that the camera focused on looked like it, read posts properly and celebrate your win man!!

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, hullste said:

Roby attempting to make a normal tackle

I'm intrigued, please explain the definition of "a normal tackle"

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

A normal tackle ? , Explain a normal tackle ? , His head hit the opponents knee 

Just because he hurt himself it's not a foul ? 

Percival made head contact with the Dragons player , should get a ban 

Best me to it.

[Szymala]

7 hours ago, Superb Chops said:

Very true on Lam's excellent work at Leigh.

But not true about him being sacked at Wigan. He was given two consecutive contracts over three years there and completed both. 

It's likely Wigan chairman Ian Lenegan will stand down at the end of the season without sacking a single coach. 

Fair enough. I was going to say 'dispensed with', actually, which would have been more accurate. Anyway, kudos to Lam & Derek for spotting a gem on his doorstep.