Northerners -are they .....

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

A) More patriotic than the rest of England 

B) The same patriotic as the rest of England 

C) Less patriotic than the rest of England ?

On average I mean and perhaps by northerners I mean heartlanders not outliers such as scouswers or posh North Yorkshire folk

Asking because of the Tonga series.......wonder if people are going to get behind it 

 

[Futtocks]

44 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

A) More patriotic than the rest of England 

B) The same patriotic as the rest of England 

C) Less patriotic than the rest of England ?

On average I mean and perhaps by northerners I mean heartlanders not outliers such as scouswers or posh North Yorkshire folk

Asking because of the Tonga series.......wonder if people are going to get behind it 

I'd expect there to be a similar broad spectrum of feelings as anywhere else, regardless what definition of "patriotic" you choose.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Cheeky soft southerner! 

[Stirlin]

North Yorkshire......we never brag about it , ever..

[HawkMan]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

A) More patriotic than the rest of England 

B) The same patriotic as the rest of England 

C) Less patriotic than the rest of England ?

On average I mean and perhaps by northerners I mean heartlanders not outliers such as scouswers or posh North Yorkshire folk

Asking because of the Tonga series.......wonder if people are going to get behind it 

 

Away from RL, this is the AOB Forum, I noticed lots banners from Northern football clubs at Wembley on Tuesday,  so Northerners seem patriotic as anyone else.

[Maximus Decimus]

Less IMO.

I've not long finished a Short History of England and it is very good at making the argument that what we call England has always really meant the South of England.

Until relatively recently, the North was pretty rebellious. There is bound to be some hangover to that.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

I'd say less in terms of national identity. We are very proud of the area we are from, in my opinion there is no one prouder of their place of birth than a Yorkshireman but I don't think I've ever come across masses of national patriotism. 

[17 stone giant]

52 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I've not long finished a Short History of England and it is very good at making the argument that what we call England has always really meant the South of England.

Until relatively recently, the North was pretty rebellious. There is bound to be some hangover to that.

Didn't the Romans call the south Britannia Superior and the north Britannia Inferior? Those Romans knew what's what!

In all seriousness, I have no idea. What I think is beyond dispute is that northerners make up large parts of a lot of England and GB national teams. The north west is a hotbed of football, and Yorkshire is likewise for cricket. Certainly a lot of my sporting heroes are from oop north.

Who cares anyway? When those 13 northerners run out for England on Sunday against Tonga, I'll be supporting them just the same as if they all came from the neighbouring village! And believe me it's a good thing they don't, or we'd definitely get hammered!

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Less IMO.

I've not long finished a Short History of England and it is very good at making the argument that what we call England has always really meant the South of England.

Until relatively recently, the North was pretty rebellious. There is bound to be some hangover to that.

It was quite jarring to me to see quite how many southerners, in particular Londoners, take the symbols of national identity seriously. Things like Changing of the Guard and saying Westminster Abbey in hushed tones.

Natural to do that when all the 'national' in your national identity is bound up within a short, short distance in London.

There are no genuine bits of that part of the identity in the north.

(Even 'south of England' doesn't really cover it. It's a patchwork that starts in London and ebbs out from there but not necessarily in a continuous way.)

[GeordieSaint]

That’s a great question(s). I can’t speak for the south, but the Northwest for example is a right old mix of people with different family backgrounds. Absolutely tonnes of Irish and Scottish heritage in the area means we view things probably in different ways than some in the south who don’t come from those backgrounds. 

[The Masked Poster]

Like anywhere it's largely down to individuals. I know a family of Irish descent for example (parents came over in the 50's) and one of the sons is like "Up the 'RA" and jumping up singing "a nation once again" at the drop of a hat. Whereas his sister has a house full of pics of The Queen and is very patriotic. I don't think there's a one size fits all answer to this. 

[Damien]

I think Northerners are patriotic in a different way. I certainly think some London and the South East are wrapped up in a sort of patriotism that people elsewhere don't really relate to as much of that is London centric, all the Royal family and London symbols type stuff.

For me there is also a difference between English and British patriotism too and one doesn't necessarily mean you feel the other. I feel much more English than British and don't really feel the whole British flags, bunting and cups of tea in a quaint Southern town vibe.

[Vambo]

As I have gotten older (56) I have found myself becoming less patriotic with the passage of the time. These days the only thing I consider myself to be is a working class northerner.

[Maximus Decimus]

7 hours ago, Damien said:

I think Northerners are patriotic in a different way. I certainly think some London and the South East are wrapped up in a sort of patriotism that people elsewhere don't really relate to as much of that is London centric, all the Royal family and London symbols type stuff.

For me there is also a difference between English and British patriotism too and one doesn't necessarily mean you feel the other. I feel much more English than British and don't really feel the whole British flags, bunting and cups of tea in a quaint Southern town vibe.

I'm the opposite (apart from the bunting).

I've always preferred to call myself British than English. As a northerner, we have more in common with the celts than the southern English. 

I can remember when the Scottish referendum was happening, I felt like if Yes had won it was taking away something of my identity. Presuming it would've meant the end of the UK, I really didn't like the idea that 'England' would be my state. 

The England football team is the only really English patriotic thing that I get fully on-board with. I was gutted when GBRL became England RL but I obviously support them.

If I'm honest with myself, I'm not sure how much my thoughts are affected by not supporting England RU and even for a long time seeing them as the enemy. They are literally the team of the English establishment, and as such I have negative connotations with that type of England.

Somewhat contradictarily, I have very little time for the whole 'Scouse not English' thing that you see in Liverpool now, and see it as a bit silly.

 

[bobbruce]

21 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Who cares anyway? When those 13 northerners run out for England on Sunday against Tonga

Mike McMeeken and Kai Pearce Paul say hi. 

[gingerjon]

44 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

As a northerner, we have more in common with the celts

 

Celts is a word invented by non Celts to describe a people who have never been united politically, culturally or linguistically.

[Maximus Decimus]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Celts is a word invented by non Celts to describe a people who have never been united politically, culturally or linguistically.

I'm well aware of that, but it's easier than saying 'Scots, Welsh and Irish.'

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I'm well aware of that, but it's easier than saying 'Scots, Welsh and Irish.'

But the point is they don't really have much in common. The lowland Scots(*) aren't even Celts by that definition, for example.

It's all a romantic confection.

(* = assuming a racial unity that also has never existed but ...)

[gingerjon]

Those two posts read as more aggressive than I mean them to. Several decades listening to weirdo Welsh nationalists and the like pretending that they and Scottish Highlanders are a single pure culture will do that to you.

[17 stone giant]

51 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I have very little time for the whole 'Scouse not English' thing that you see in Liverpool now, and see it as a bit silly.

Especially considering that when Liverpool FC fans had the 'problem' at Heysel in 1985, it was English clubs that got banned as a result.

The English Clubs Who Were Denied European Football After Heysel

I know Liverpool FC fans are rightly concerned about justice, so I'm certain they would want their scouse Liverpool FC to compensate all the English clubs that they caused to miss out on European football.

I estimate that Southampton's 1985/86 UEFA cup run would probably have netted us about £100m, so I'll happily accept a cheque for that amount being sent to St Mary's. Or they can send us Mo Salah.

[17 stone giant]

31 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Mike McMeeken and Kai Pearce Paul say hi. 

Basingstoke and London, respectively. Every little helps.

[17 stone giant]

1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I've always preferred to call myself British than English.

I'm perfectly happy being both English and British.

I love supporting England at football, cricket, rugby union, etc.

In rugby league I'm absolutely fine with England, but I would prefer a Great Britain team, partly because of history and nostalgia (the contribution of players like Jonathan Davies), but also because I don't think Scotland and Wales are currently able to offer very much.

I'd rather see the rare great player from those countries (e.g. Regan Grace) have the opportunity to represent GB.

[Maximus Decimus]

8 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Those two posts read as more aggressive than I mean them to. Several decades listening to weirdo Welsh nationalists and the like pretending that they and Scottish Highlanders are a single pure culture will do that to you.

I completely get what you're getting at amd agree about it being an invented term. I'm not really meaning culturally close to them, more about how we've been historically treated. 

The book I was talking about makes the point that the whole Tory/Labour split is largely along these lines. London aside, it falls along these lines of largely the North + Celts being Labour and the South being Tory.

[Maximus Decimus]

8 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'm perfectly happy being both English and British.

I love supporting England at football, cricket, rugby union, etc.

In rugby league I'm absolutely fine with England, but I would prefer a Great Britain team, partly because of history and nostalgia (the contribution of players like Jonathan Davies), but also because I don't think Scotland and Wales are currently able to offer very much.

I'd rather see the rare great player from those countries (e.g. Regan Grace) have the opportunity to represent GB.

Over the years I've got more used to it, but I still preferred the days when we were GB. I'm sure it's partly because of what I grew up with.

The RFL however, did a great job of completely killing it off a few years ago. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

On 19/10/2023 at 22:00, Maximus Decimus said:

Less IMO.

I've not long finished a Short History of England and it is very good at making the argument that what we call England has always really meant the South of England.

Until relatively recently, the North was pretty rebellious. There is bound to be some hangover to that.

Yeah that is where I am coming from 

I've always admired the way RL players speak with passion about playing for England .....maybe surprised by it

I know scouswers are famous for thinking they aren't English etc (they always have to be different of course )