The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Archie Gordon]

5 hours ago, Hopie said:

... Why should one club be getting 100s of thousands of pounds more every year to invest in the club based on a fraction of a grading point.

Some club will be exiled from SL due to .15 or similar and there'll be an uproar. It will be interesting. And completely unnecessary.

[Dovster]

12 hours ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure they can even be accused of doing that really. It's not like they spent big or went full time like Fev. They seemed to scrape into the play offs and pulled off a big shock in going all the way.

It's a shame the sport will lose that excitement and unpredictability really.

[Damien]

21 minutes ago, Dovster said:

It's a shame the sport will lose that excitement and unpredictability really.

I've never thought play offs were the best way to decide who is best equipped for SL anyway. It should have been the team that finished top as league champions for me.

[Dovster]

25 minutes ago, Damien said:

I've never thought play offs were the best way to decide who is best equipped for SL anyway. It should have been the team that finished top as league champions for me.

Feathersone fan maybe?

[The Blues Ox]

12 hours ago, Chris22 said:

I expect a swap between London and Wakefield, but based on the indicative gradings, it is highly likely that Toulouse will replace Leigh, even if Leigh achieve a mid table finish.

Leigh are likely to lose points unless they retain the Challenge Cup. It could be that a side that finishes 5th and wins the Challenge Cup in 2023 and performs respectably in 2024 will be relegated.

Tommy will be along shortly to tell us this is exactly the problem that grading is dealing with.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Dovster said:

Feathersone fan maybe?

Good God no.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Leigh are likely to lose points unless they retain the Challenge Cup. It could be that a side that finishes 5th and wins the Challenge Cup in 2023 and performs respectably in 2024 will be relegated

 

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

Yes, I think there is a possibility of this, and I'm not 100% sure that passes the sniff test for the process. 

That would be good way for IMG's system to wipe 5,000 or so paying attending fans and most probably a a guy who invests heavily in the sport away from the game in one fell swoop.

 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

That would be good way for IMG's system to wipe 5,000 or so paying attending fans and most probably a a guy who invests heavily in the sport away from the game in one fell swoop.

 

I don't think we even need to look at it in terms like that (it's pretty small-fry let's be honest), another club would increase by a couple of thousand and offset some losses. 

I think it would go against the essence of what we are trying to achieve, which would be the bigger issue I'd have. The last few clubs who have been promoted have been really half-assed efforts, including Leigh in the past, plus TWP, Toulouse, London - last year's promoted club was on a different level to those and that should be celebrated, and ultimately rewarded. 

But, hopefully this won't materialise and maybe even some tweaks to the scoring will be implemented, which imo are needed. 

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I suppose it depends what we are fixing for. 

There are a few major issues with P&R that are called out by opponents to it. 

1. The uncertainty and shock it brings when relegation happens

2. Clubs who are promoted don't get a set period and are at a disadvantage. 

3. Encourages short term decisions, with focus on spending on players rather than strengthening the club. 

IMO, this new system doesn't really address these issues, it partially addresses point 3, and London is a stark example of that. 

They have basically retained P&R and therefore not addressed points 1 and 2. If they are retaining P&R, I'd have no issues with your proposal, but I think you would have to raise the drawbridge on clubs like London and rank them C. 

So you highlight your points 1, 2, & 3 by quoting London, but didn't the reverse happen with the promoted club in '22 and Wakefield are seemingly following the same direction this term.

[Dave T]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

So you highlight your points 1, 2, & 3 by quoting London, but didn't the reverse happen with the promoted club in '22 and Wakefield are seemingly following the same direction this term.

I don't know what your post means. 

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Dave T said:

I don't know what your post means. 

Leigh ripped up the the half assed method and set a new blueprint for maintaining SL status, this is the new method that could adopted if P&R was maintained.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Leigh ripped up the the half assed method and set a new blueprint for maintaining SL status, this is the new method that could adopted if P&R was maintained.

And they still voted for IMG...

[Dave T]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Leigh ripped up the the half assed method and set a new blueprint for maintaining SL status, this is the new method that could adopted if P&R was maintained.

That isn't relevant to my post. My post was about what critics of relegation highlight as the negatives of it. 

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

And they still voted for IMG...

I didn't.

Would you expect the same vote if it was taken now?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I didn't.

Would you expect the same vote if it was taken now?

Leigh, including Mr Beaumont, who actually put all the money in and did what you said, did vote for it.

Yes I would frankly.

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That isn't relevant to my post. My post was about what critics of relegation highlight as the negatives of it. 

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with your comments, just expanding on the positives of P&R

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Leigh, including Mr Beaumont, who actually put all the money in and did what you said, did vote for it.

Yes I would frankly.

I said it at the time Tommy his judgement was wrong, just as he was delusional when he volunteered his club to replace TWP with his "Suoer League Ready" comments, I also said he was wrong then.

I would love a revote to take place, and I would wager you as much as you wanted it would not be carried by the same number as the previous one.

 

[Adelaide Tiger]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

That would be good way for IMG's system to wipe 5,000 or so paying attending fans and most probably a a guy who invests heavily in the sport away from the game in one fell swoop.

 

Harry, here is a genuine question. Only using Leigh as an example based on your comment above.

According to Love Rugby League the average attendance for Leigh in 2023  was 7,254 which falls within the IMG criteria range of 3,000 to 7,499 average attendance.

Therefore if Leigh are ranked 13th after the official gradings and ‘relegated’ to the Championship next year but achieve over 3,000 average attendance they would retain the same score for that category that they achieved in 2023.

Therefore, do you believe it’s possible for Leigh to improve across other areas to achieve the 15 point mark - and achieve automatic elevation into SL - whilst competing in the Championship?

Hope the above makes sense.

 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with your comments, just expanding on the positives of P&R

I don't disagree. I'm relatively comfortable either way, I don't feel too strong about P&R tbh, I think we can make a success of the sport irrespective of the system, but I understand the views of both sides and why they come to their conclusion.

For me, the more important thing is around minimum standards and doing the small things right, and tbh, we do seem to be seeing progress on those fronts.

[Harry Stottle]

21 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Harry, here is a genuine question. Only using Leigh as an example based on your comment above.

According to Love Rugby League the average attendance for Leigh in 2023  was 7,254 which falls within the IMG criteria range of 3,000 to 7,499 average attendance.

Therefore if Leigh are ranked 13th after the official gradings and ‘relegated’ to the Championship next year but achieve over 3,000 average attendance they would retain the same score for that category that they achieved in 2023.

Therefore, do you believe it’s possible for Leigh to improve across other areas to achieve the 15 point mark - and achieve automatic elevation into SL - whilst competing in the Championship?

Hope the above makes sense.

 

Hi AT, other than my take on matters have a look at this link, this was 1st Dec '23.

 

Edited February 1 by Harry Stottle

[Adelaide Tiger]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi AT, other than my take on matters have a look at this link, this was 1st Dec '23.

 

Thanks Harry.  Just watched it whilst the wife watched Borderforce USA.

Firstly, Derek makes quite a lot of fair comments about the criteria process some if which I agreed with.

Secondly, it was interesting to hear him speak openly about the ‘creative accounting’ - for want of a better phrase - that should, if he is correct, bump Leigh to a score of 15.05.  A massive achievement for the club.

A couple of weeks ago I listened to a podcast featuring Martin Jepson (new Cas Director) who like Beaumont is putting money into the club, plus Ian Fulton (the owner) and Mark Grattan (Managing Director).  They were confident the Cas could achieve 15 points, prior to the hoped for partial stadium rebuild.

So IMHO if either club misses out on SL next year they feel confident that they have a ‘back door’ opportunity of regaining a place in SL by achieving a score of 15.  Time will tell.

[dkw]

On 31/01/2024 at 08:06, Archie Gordon said:

Some club will be exiled from SL due to .15 or similar and there'll be an uproar. It will be interesting. And completely unnecessary.

Some clubs in the past have been "exiled" by a few tries, or based on one play off game (which is open to luck on the day, injuries etc).

This isnt any different, there will always be teams that miss out by a small margin, the units of that margin are all that change.

[Griff]

16 minutes ago, dkw said:

Some clubs in the past have been "exiled" by a few tries, or based on one play off game (which is open to luck on the day, injuries etc).

This isnt any different, there will always be teams that miss out by a small margin, the units of that margin are all that change.

I'd just mention Keighley 2023.  Nothing new to see here.

[DEANO]

7 hours ago, dkw said:

Some clubs in the past have been "exiled" by a few tries, or based on one play off game (which is open to luck on the day, injuries etc).

This isnt any different, there will always be teams that miss out by a small margin, the units of that margin are all that change.

At least in the past it was decided on the field unless your face didn’t fit

[Gooleboy]

13 hours ago, DEANO said:

At least in the past it was decided on the field unless your face didn’t fit

Exactly. I agree to having some minimum standards like the Premier League does, but what happens on the pitch should be the most important thing.