London Broncos 2024

[phiggins]

Just now, Dave T said:

Clubs got no points for pathways last year but London didn't abandon them. Why are some people happy they have done this now? 

Don't think anyone is happy. But their current grading shows that it's virtually impossible for them to stay in SL next year, and the scoring system means it's highly unlikely they'll be back, regardless of noises they make about building towards an A grade. With that in mind, I imagine they feel it's not feasible to spend £250k a year on an academy while there's no realistic chance of a sustained spell in the top flight

[Agbrigg]

1 hour ago, Gav Wilson said:

Again, IMG couldn't put Academy setups in their grading criteria because the RFL won't let everyone run one.

It's so confusing isn't it. Firstly we hear that IMG are now basically running they game, they are definitely dictating which clubs play in the top their . So why don't they have an academy as a point scoring method. It's no good blaming the RFL for this one. If IMG had wanted to, they could have factored this into their system. 

[The Blues Ox]

1 hour ago, Gav Wilson said:

Again, IMG couldn't put Academy setups in their grading criteria because the RFL won't let everyone run one.

It didn't stop them putting other criteria in that was impossible to gain maximum points for some clubs though.

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

It's ok saying that the RFL are to blame for not letting clubs run academies as that to me was a huge failing and ridiculous decision in the first place, and it wouldn't be fair to compare clubs in this instance, but then it's not fair to compare on finances or crowds either. However, IMG have brought in this god awful points scoring system KNOWING that was the case and junior development is a huge part of any sport, particularly one with dwindling pathways and playing numbers. Did they just think this wasn't going to come up?

It seems like every day another huge hole is exposed in this fag packet plan and it's barely even operational. All the spreadsheet RLFC fans were cheering to the rafters when London won promotion - "just what we need", Kyle Amor - "Great for the game". How many more of this kind of story are we going to get before the penny drops?

While it's terrible for the game that London have taken this decision, I don't blame them in the slightest. They are pointing out yet another flaw in a system that has taken their ambition, ripped it up and wiped its backside with it. They could be gearing up for a crack at SL but instead they've thought why bother. Why bother indeed.

Well said Tex. 

But I think you give IMG to much credit when you said "However, IMG have brought in this god awful points scoring system KNOWING that was the case" 

I have underlined the operative word, but you still have to consider what the RFL and in particular Sutton and RL Commercial have been advising them and explaining how we are a tad different to European Basketball.

 

[MattSantos]

33 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Irrespective of whether London's is a smart move or otherwise Dave, it must be over 12 months or so ago I suggested that IMG in so much as "doing it for nothing" until a profit is turned when they can then take a cut, will have no use for any clubs under SL level, they will just eat into the expenditure.

Anyone who can't see that and believes otherwise is deluding themselves or simply does not care if some clubs just cease to be.

It's what Elstone wanted when he was in charge of Superleague 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, phiggins said:

Don't think anyone is happy. But their current grading shows that it's virtually impossible for them to stay in SL next year, and the scoring system means it's highly unlikely they'll be back, regardless of noises they make about building towards an A grade. With that in mind, I imagine they feel it's not feasible to spend £250k a year on an academy while there's no realistic chance of a sustained spell in the top flight

When people spend all their time slating small time clubs on the M62, including yours, but then say they can't blame London for stuff like this, it's weird. 

London should absolutely be slated for this. 

We can talk about spreadsheets all we want, but we are in the business of Rugby, and that includes developing players. 

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We can talk about spreadsheets all we want, but we are in the business of Rugby, and that includes developing players. 

 I wish someone had told Ralphy Rimmer that.

[MattSantos]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

When people spend all their time slating small time clubs on the M62, including yours, but then say they can't blame London for stuff like this, it's weird. 

London should absolutely be slated for this. 

We can talk about spreadsheets all we want, but we are in the business of Rugby, and that includes developing players. 

But the landscape has massively shifted and we're no longer in the business of Rugby. 

Rugby as a sport benefits from players being developed. We need more. Massively. I agree with Damien's posts on this recently. However, it doesn't benefit London in the short/medium term so why should they bother?* They're arguably chasing the A grade to the detriment of the sport, which is just daft isn't it and really contextualises why the grades were introduced.. a closed shop**

*Are home grown players cheaper on the cap? 

**I'm not actually sure where i sit re a closed shop. I'm not totally against it from a theoretical standpoint, but we would never do it properly, so it's probably a moot point given the landscape we're in.

[Agbrigg]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

We can talk about spreadsheets all we want, but we are in the business of Rugby, and that includes developing players. 

With respect Dave you are wrong, the only thing clubs need to develop are IMG points, it's the be all and end all.

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

With respect Dave you are wrong, the only thing clubs need to develop are IMG points, it's the be all and end all.

There's more than 1 way to do that for several of the criteria though isn't there?

[Tex Evans Thigh]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

When people spend all their time slating small time clubs on the M62, including yours, but then say they can't blame London for stuff like this, it's weird. 

London should absolutely be slated for this. 

We can talk about spreadsheets all we want, but we are in the business of Rugby, and that includes developing players. 

They wouldn't have stopped if this system hadn't been implemented. They have effectively been told they won't be in SL in 2025, so what's the incentive to spend money on something that will bring them no immediate benefit? They're better off spending their money on a big screen and some fake Facebook followers. This development is a direct impact of the IMG system. London are free to invest their money where they see fit.

[Gav Wilson]

5 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

They wouldn't have stopped if this system hadn't been implemented. They have effectively been told they won't be in SL in 2025, so what's the incentive to spend money on something that will bring them no immediate benefit? They're better off spending their money on a big screen and some fake Facebook followers. This development is a direct impact of the IMG system. London are free to invest their money where they see fit.

Call me a cynic, but I don't think the Broncos will see much of that 250k saving...

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

They're better off spending their money on a big screen and some fake Facebook followers. 

There are a thousand problems for London to fix. It's why they are so poorly rated.

They have the money to address all that ... and run an academy.

This is entirely London's decision.

[Dave T]

29 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

With respect Dave you are wrong, the only thing clubs need to develop are IMG points, it's the be all and end all.

You don't get points for having carpet in your new suite, but you probably will put some in. 

[Archie Gordon]

55 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

They wouldn't have stopped if this system hadn't been implemented. They have effectively been told they won't be in SL in 2025, so what's the incentive to spend money on something that will bring them no immediate benefit? They're better off spending their money on a big screen and some fake Facebook followers. This development is a direct impact of the IMG system. London are free to invest their money where they see fit.

I don't think it's the IMG system that's caused this reaction - that was a known thing for some time and voted for by the Broncos; instead, it's their IMG grading. Those aren't the same thing and reacting to the former is more honourable than reacting to the latter.

If the IMG system was the problem, the Broncos would have made this announcement a while ago. In reality, it's the grading that's spooked them and caused them to go back on their word to a lot of people. 

[binosh]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Indeed. And, as Archie says, London are not going to be spending their savings on addressing any of the issues that they need to address. Because, to be clear, they are a really, really, really poorly run club whose promotion to Super League reflects really bad on how shallow the depth of talent is at Championship level.

And that's nothing to do with IMG, and everything to do with decades of failure.

All it shows is that that the championship should not have had playoffs and had a first past the post league champions. The rigours of the league over a sustained period is much better preparation for Super League than signing a couple of players mid season to have a crack at the playoffs.

[ATLANTISMAN]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well said Tex. 

But I think you give IMG to much credit when you said "However, IMG have brought in this god awful points scoring system KNOWING that was the case" 

I have underlined the operative word, but you still have to consider what the RFL and in particular Sutton and RL Commercial have been advising them and explaining how we are a tad different to European Basketball.

 

It's around 450K fee next year Harry for IMG

[Londonbornirishbred]

6 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

This is more likely an owner with a track record of making emotional decisions, making an emotional decision. Then saying it's because of IMG. 

It took a few pages, but someone finally got there. Well done!

I am not in any way shape or form a David Hughes fan. I believe he has ruined all of London Rugby League as a viable sporting option for young people, whilst making some insane appointments and decisions...BUT, It was his £30,000,000 to blow and blow it he did. Without him, London Broncos would have ceased to exist a long time ago and therefore, he deserved our gratitude.
 

Alas, our gratitude isn't going to keep the club afloat and Hughes has now decided to go scorched earth as he tried in 2013. Back then, the RFL found £100,000 with which to bribe the owner of Barnet to take in the homeless club that he'd threatened to bury (all because we got tonked by Wigan in the cup). Unfortunately for Hughes, this time, the SL chairmen have problems of their own and whether London are i SL 2025 or beyond doesn't bother them. IMG are happy to look at hosting events in London, but in reality nobody with an ounce of common sense would go into business with Hughes. Him and the club are now pretty much toxic.

The solution? I doubt there is one now. There was an opportunity in 2008/9 but once he soured the relationship with Quins, he has had to pay OTT for rent whilst getting more agitated at the lack of fiscal support from central funding. Covid was maybe the second from last nail in the coffin, with the disastrous raids on the skolars and usual lack of marketing = no fans at games scenario of the last 2 seasons the last.

Unexpected promotion to SL with the knowledge that they're going straight back down has simple accelerated the curtain coming down. I'll buy a shirt this year....it may well be the last chance I get!

 

[Londonbornirishbred]

2 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

Call me a cynic, but I don't think the Broncos will see much of that 250k saving...

you're so cynical. and pretty accurate too!

[Tex Evans Thigh]

2 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

Call me a cynic, but I don't think the Broncos will see much of that 250k saving...

Whether it's in Hughes pocket or put back into other areas of the club is irrelevant. Hughes doesn't see the value in running an academy under the IMG system, the IMG evangelists can try and spin it however they want but that is the formal, official reason.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

There are a thousand problems for London to fix. It's why they are so poorly rated.

They have the money to address all that ... and run an academy.

This is entirely London's decision.

London's decision...driven by the new system.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

2 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

I don't think it's the IMG system that's caused this reaction - that was a known thing for some time and voted for by the Broncos; instead, it's their IMG grading. Those aren't the same thing and reacting to the former is more honourable than reacting to the latter.

If the IMG system was the problem, the Broncos would have made this announcement a while ago. In reality, it's the grading that's spooked them and caused them to go back on their word to a lot of people. 

Not to state the obvious, but the grading is part of the system. A lot of clubs will have voted for it without knowing the full impact, people are allowed to change their minds once they get a fuller picture. I suspect there was also a lot of 'toeing the line' from clubs that didn't really like the concept but didnt want to rub their new corporate overlords up the wrong way.

It still doesn't get away from the fact that London have abandoned their academy because of the IMG grading system. Even if they are using it as an excuse, without it there would be no excuse and we wouldnt be here now. I suspect you might have even seen an investment in their academy to take advantage of the fact that their pathway could lead to SL, that opportunity has been taken away from them.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

It's around 450K fee next year Harry for IMG

That's what I've been told

[Zilla Budgie]

I feel sorry for London Broncos. I was delighted for them when they beat Toulouse in the play-off final, but I had no idea that all teams in the 2025 season the division that they play in would be completely decided by a grading system. Apart from additional revenue (SKY money, visiting away fans and better sponsorship deals) would they have been better off losing to Toulouse (in the long term). Hopefully they'll lose less money by being in SL, and don't get whacked most games.

[Southern Reiver]

Well IMG have stated if you run an academy it really doesn’t benefit you in their scoring system. So logical decision as a club and owner is spend your money elsewhere (and that might even be just save £250k a year for your own pension). 

Some have indicated emotional decisions. Yes and no. When RFL decided to penalise Broncos for not visiting Toulouse while others exempt from criticism. Broncos response was join the rest of crowd as part time rather than stay full time. Its a response to way rules are implemented and yes might be good cover for other financial reasons. The RFL do share responsibility for this. They’ve allowed IMG to ignore the wider development of the game in the grading system. It might not matter too much up north, it could be the death knell down here. It will/has ###### off the community clubs and volunteers. 

And the real irony is that the Broncos squad gaining promotion this year is based on a team that have come through London based academy and development.