Fri 22nd Mar-Sun 24th Mar: The Betfred Challenge Cup Sixth Round Match Thread

[gingerjon]

Just now, LeeF said:

This article explains the split in the challenge cup

 

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/exclusive-the-stark-financial-reality-of-the-challenge-cup-revealed-as-future-investigated

 

Christ:

• 1st round losers: £0
• 2nd round losers: £500
• 3rd round losers: £750
• 4th round losers: £1,000
• 5th round losers: £1,250
• 6th round losers: £1,500
• QF losers: £8,000
• SF losers: £18,000
• Runners-up: £35,000
• Winners: £100,000

[LeeF]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Christ:

• 1st round losers: £0
• 2nd round losers: £500
• 3rd round losers: £750
• 4th round losers: £1,000
• 5th round losers: £1,250
• 6th round losers: £1,500
• QF losers: £8,000
• SF losers: £18,000
• Runners-up: £35,000
• Winners: £100,000

The teams got more 20 years ago

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, LeeF said:

The teams got more 20 years ago

The Isuzu FA Vase
Season 2023-24
Prize fund payments

Round	Winning club	Losing club
First round qualifying	£550	£160
Second round qualifying	£725	£225
First round	£825	£250
Second round	£900	£275
Third round	£1,125	£350
Fourth round	£1,875	£600
Fifth round	£2,250	£725
Sixth round	£4,125	£1,350
Semi-Final	£5,500	£1,725
Final	£30,000	£15,000

 

The FA Vase is for (effectively) divisions 9 and 10 of English football.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

yep, but then again Saints are a good side... so I wasn't surprised about them winning.   Having said that I was surprised how much better saints were - even more surprised they chose to take the early penalties. 

Leeds line defence was relatively good, their outer field defence is extremely poor.  Any team to-date is easily crossing into 40/30 yard area enabling good attacking kicks.   Whereas Leeds are as it seems to me struggling to get across the half way line and more often than not kicking from around the 40 yard line or even further back. Thus every opposition set they are on the back foot.   Are they being too cautious with the off side line resulting in not having an "aggressive line" rather than a "passive" line.

Saints are good, but not unbeatably so. 

We had/have a passive structure in defence, under Smith since his first full preseason, it seems to be one of his philosophies. It did get less passive last season as it went on. 

 

[Griff]

30 minutes ago, meast said:

True, the new ground would be 600 yards away from Derbyshire, but still nearer to Dronfield than Sheffield  

Depends what you mean by Sheffield.

[Padge]

1 hour ago, LeeF said:

This article explains the split in the challenge cup

 

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/exclusive-the-stark-financial-reality-of-the-challenge-cup-revealed-as-future-investigated

 

Well that just about backs up my point.

[meast]

1 hour ago, LeeF said:

The teams got more 20 years ago

 

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

The Isuzu FA Vase
Season 2023-24
Prize fund payments

Round	Winning club	Losing club
First round qualifying	£550	£160
Second round qualifying	£725	£225
First round	£825	£250
Second round	£900	£275
Third round	£1,125	£350
Fourth round	£1,875	£600
Fifth round	£2,250	£725
Sixth round	£4,125	£1,350
Semi-Final	£5,500	£1,725
Final	£30,000	£15,000

 

The FA Vase is for (effectively) divisions 9 and 10 of English football.

Yep, Emley, a 9th tier football club received £9,600 for their run to the quarter final of the vase.

That's more than any of the super league clubs will receive for losing in the quarter final of the challenge cup

Absolute madness.

[meast]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

Depends what you mean by Sheffield.

The City of Sheffield boundary.

[Ullman]

8 hours ago, Old Frightful said:

I wish folk would stop putting this out there.

Pearson saw Radford Immediately after the hooter, Wire at home after another shellacking if memory serves, and told him that he couldn't see any future continuing with him as coach, then told the Sky cameras a few minutes later.

So he didn't "Sack him on Sky".

Hull FC fans are always accusing Pearson of keeping them in the dark, well, they couldn't moan at the lack of publicity there. 

Well said, mate.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

5 hours ago, Griff said:

So did I.   Though a lot of the financial gubbins in the RFL Operational Rules is hidden from public gaze.

The 'shared gate' calculation method used to be included in the publicly viewable Op Rules, including as recently as the change from 'allowable match day expenses' for the home side, to a fixed % of the gate.

 

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

Well that just about backs up my point.

It should be 32 teams in the bag and you takes your chance. Like it used to be.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, meast said:

The City of Sheffield boundary.

OK.

[Griff]

25 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

It should be 32 teams in the bag and you takes your chance. Like it used to be.

Which pro teams drop out then?

Cornwall is one, I suppose.

[Gooleboy]

8 hours ago, Griff said:

Which pro teams drop out then?

Cornwall is one, I suppose.

You would still have rounds before the last 32, but have it so 20 teams are left then the 12 Super League join in. At least they would have to win three games before a semi final.

[Griff]

45 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

You would still have rounds before the last 32, but have it so 20 teams are left then the 12 Super League join in. At least they would have to win three games before a semi final.

Three's important, is it?  Two not enough?

I'm not seeing your reasoning, other than that's what is was like in the old days.

[Ovenden Grunt]

14 hours ago, meast said:

True, the new ground would be 600 yards away from Derbyshire, but still nearer to Dronfield than Sheffield  

If it's in Yorkshire, it's in Yorkshire.

[phiggins]

53 minutes ago, Griff said:

Three's important, is it?  Two not enough?

I'm not seeing your reasoning, other than that's what is was like in the old days.

There will always be some people not happy with the setup. If SL clubs come in at the last 32 stage, there will be some mismatches that people say we need to avoid. Bring SL clubs in later to avoid it, and that's wrong too. Same conversations happen every world cup as well. In a lot of sports to be fair.

I wouldn't be against the SL teams entering in the last 32, but it being 8 groups of 4 played at the start of the year, and at the expense of loop fixtures. Not sure how that would work with the 1895 cup and Championship / League 1 calendar though. Not fussed at SL teams entering in the last 16 either, but would prefer more space between rounds, so fixtures are known for more than a fortnight after the draw.

[Griff]

51 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Not fussed at SL teams entering in the last 16 either, but would prefer more space between rounds, so fixtures are known for more than a fortnight after the draw.

Then you'd need to have the final later in the season.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, phiggins said:

There will always be some people not happy with the setup. If SL clubs come in at the last 32 stage, there will be some mismatches that people say we need to avoid. Bring SL clubs in later to avoid it, and that's wrong too. Same conversations happen every world cup as well. In a lot of sports to be fair.

I wouldn't be against the SL teams entering in the last 32, but it being 8 groups of 4 played at the start of the year, and at the expense of loop fixtures. Not sure how that would work with the 1895 cup and Championship / League 1 calendar though. Not fussed at SL teams entering in the last 16 either, but would prefer more space between rounds, so fixtures are known for more than a fortnight after the draw.

Top flight clubs broadly came in at the last 32 for the first 30 years I watched RL (some slightly earlier in the prelims if drawn out). This change to last 16 came in less than 10 years ago and I'm not sure it has been received favourably by any fans.

I understand the reasons why these decisions are taken, reduction of games, fitting into calendar, avoiding amateurs v pros etc. but I don't think anyone can make a case that the Cup is better since 2015 when it was changed. Quite the opposite.

Putting SL into the cup with 4 other teams is a massive change to putting them in with 20 other teams for the variety that it can bring. As I say, I can understand the reasons, but I don't think it adds anything as a fan, and I agree with those who don't like it. 

In 2014, we had 14 SL teams, and 5 of them were knocked out in the last 32 - meaning that the last 16 had 7 lower division teams. 

Edited March 25 by Dave T

[phiggins]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Top flight clubs broadly came in at the last 32 for the first 30 years I watched RL (some slightly earlier in the prelims if drawn out). This change to last 16 came in less than 10 years ago and I'm not sure it has been received favourably by any fans.

I understand the reasons why these decisions are taken, reduction of games, fitting into calendar, avoiding amateurs v pros etc. but I don't think anyone can make a case that the Cup is better since 2015 when it was changed. Quite the opposite.

Putting SL into the cup with 4 other teams is a massive change to putting them in with 20 other teams for the variety that it can bring. As I say, I can understand the reasons, but I don't think it adds anything as a fan, and I agree with those who don't like it. 

In 2014, we had 14 SL teams, and 5 of them were knocked out in the last 32 - meaning that the last 16 had 7 lower division teams. 

Don't disagree, and I wouldn't have a problem with SL joining in the last 32, in fact I'd probably prefer it. But, it was changed for a reason (well I assume it was!), and those reasons would become apparent again if we reverted back.

Had a quick look on Wikipedia, and looks like there were no instances of a SL club being knocked out by non-SL opposition, but could've missed something. But chances are, SL teams only get knocked out by each other, so the argument that some have had that this format leads to too many repeat fixtures doesn't really work, as it would probably happen anyway.

[Gooleboy]

5 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Don't disagree, and I wouldn't have a problem with SL joining in the last 32, in fact I'd probably prefer it. But, it was changed for a reason (well I assume it was!), and those reasons would become apparent again if we reverted back.

Had a quick look on Wikipedia, and looks like there were no instances of a SL club being knocked out by non-SL opposition, but could've missed something. But chances are, SL teams only get knocked out by each other, so the argument that some have had that this format leads to too many repeat fixtures doesn't really work, as it would probably happen anyway.

There has been quite a few SL teams knocked out by lower clubs since the SL was formed. And many close games as well.

[roversspud]

7 minutes ago, phiggins said:

 

Had a quick look on Wikipedia, and looks like there were no instances of a SL club being knocked out by non-SL opposition, but could've missed something. But chances are, SL teams only get knocked out by each other, so the argument that some have had that this format leads to too many repeat fixtures doesn't really work, as it would probably happen anyway.

Fev of the Championship beat Cas of SL in 2012 and very nearly beat Wigan in the round after, Wigan scoring a very late try to clinch the win.

[Gooleboy]

3 hours ago, Griff said:

Three's important, is it?  Two not enough?

I'm not seeing your reasoning, other than that's what is was like in the old days.

It smacks of the route to the final being made even easier for SL clubs than it used to be. Also there is the opportunity for lower league clubs to get a decent home payday against one of the big boys.

[phiggins]

9 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

There has been quite a few SL teams knocked out by lower clubs since the SL was formed. And many close games as well.

6 minutes ago, roversspud said:

Fev of the Championship beat Cas of SL in 2012 and very nearly beat Wigan in the round after, Wigan scoring a very late try to clinch the win.

I meant during the 2014 competition that @Dave T mentioned in his post

Edited March 25 by phiggins
Quoted wrong post

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Don't disagree, and I wouldn't have a problem with SL joining in the last 32, in fact I'd probably prefer it. But, it was changed for a reason (well I assume it was!), and those reasons would become apparent again if we reverted back.

Had a quick look on Wikipedia, and looks like there were no instances of a SL club being knocked out by non-SL opposition, but could've missed something. But chances are, SL teams only get knocked out by each other, so the argument that some have had that this format leads to too many repeat fixtures doesn't really work, as it would probably happen anyway.

What it does do though is it creates more variety.

Of course it is ultimately likely that an SL club will get knocked out to another SL club, but in the current 1st Rd for SL clubs, they are very likely to just draw an SL club, whereas in 2014 in the first SL round 9 of them drew lower division teams. Also, by SL clubs knocking each other out it does leave opportunity for lower division teams to draw each other and get a lucky draw and make it to a decent stage. 

Cup comps have unique elements - knockout and the draw. The draw element has become rather less interesting.