How can Hull FC be getting so much wrong?

[Roy Haggerty]

Baffles me. They’ve got so many advantages over other clubs, so much potential to be genuine contenders. Yet they’re just dire year after year. Different players, different coaches, same outcomes. It’s not even ‘underperformance’ because when the same outcomes have been happening for years, it’s just performance. This is their level. But why?

[M j M]

Don't think Pearson has the financial muscle to compete. Teams can probably compete if they don't have a stadium of their own to exploit or if they don't have a backer willing to put millions in. But not having either puts Hull in a tricky spot. 

All of which is compounded by issues with signing the wrong players, injuries and whatever cultural issues they still have.

[Gomersall]

55 minutes ago, Roy Haggerty said:

Baffles me. They’ve got so many advantages over other clubs, so much potential to be genuine contenders. Yet they’re just dire year after year. Different players, different coaches, same outcomes. It’s not even ‘underperformance’ because when the same outcomes have been happening for years, it’s just performance. This is their level. But why?

Years of practise.

[Old Frightful]

I'm not willing to condemn Tony Smith yet, he's never coached a Hull FC team before and I've no idea how long it might take to implement his methods.

And if you look at the players we had last season compared to this, the heart has been ripped out of the team. An ex player scoring four tries against us yesterday is enough evidence of that.

What really galls me is the towel being thrown in by a large number of the players resulting in the blow out scores we're seeing. The lack of confidence, if it hasn't already spread, soon will do and whatever Smith's methods, that will be a proverbial mountain to climb to remove that and start winning again.

[Gooleboy]

Personally, I think Smith has had his day, but I would be interested to hear what the Hull fans really think of Pearson as an owner.

[ATLANTISMAN]

12 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Personally, I think Smith has had his day, but I would be interested to hear what the Hull fans really think of Pearson as an owner.

IMHO for what is worth Tony would be an excellent football manager with a coach underneath him 

12 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Personally, I think Smith has had his day, but I would be interested to hear what the Hull fans really think of Pearson as an owner.

 

[Lowdesert]

1 minute ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

IMHO for what is worth Tony would be an excellent football manager with a coach underneath him 

 

He more or less has that, in Grix.

 

[Lowdesert]

15 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Personally, I think Smith has had his day, but I would be interested to hear what the Hull fans really think of Pearson as an owner.

Good.  

[Damien]

I think most see Hull FC as a sleeping giant and they've underperformed the entire time I've watched RL. I was too young to remember the early 1980s when both Hull clubs had much success and got big crowds so only really recall them from the late 80s.

For me it's quite obvious the culture in the club is wrong both on and off the field. This stems from the top, just look at Pearson's moaning and outbursts, and a succession of poor coaches who haven't sorted out the playing side. I often get the feeling that they look to take shortcuts and think that overpaid signings make up for not getting the basics right. Pearson seems to think that spending the cap is job done when the Wigan, Saints and Leeds of this world do that and a heck of a lot more on top. They need to invest behind the scenes and hire the right people.

At all levels Hull FC seem to have been a failing club. The academy merger was again the easy, cheap option. There has been nothing stopping Hull FC having an academy like Wigan or Leeds and the talent has been there. Anyone that has played Hull amateur youth sides in years gone by knows that.

[super major]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think most see Hull FC as a sleeping giant and they've underperformed the entire time I've watched RL. I was too young to remember the early 1980s when both Hull clubs had much success and got big crowds so only really recall them from the late 80s.

For me it's quite obvious the culture in the club is wrong both on and off the field. This stems from the top, just look at Pearson's moaning and outbursts, and a succession of poor coaches who haven't sorted out the playing side. I often get the feeling that they look to take shortcuts and think that overpaid signings make up for not getting the basics right. Pearson seems to think that spending the cap is job done when the Wigan, Saints and Leeds of this world do that and a heck of a lot more on top. They need to invest behind the scenes and hire the right people.

At all levels Hull FC seem to have been a failing club. The academy merger was again the easy, cheap option. There has been nothing stopping Hull FC having an academy like Wigan or Leeds and the talent has been there. Anyone that has played Hull amateur youth sides in years gone by knows that.

Well we have won the challenge cup 3 times from 5 in new millenium and have had some good teams. I have no idea whats gone wrong lately but there are signs that things in the background are improving and the investment in the academy etc. is there.

This season has been pretty dire for one reason or another, performance of players,injuries and suspension . To me the biggest problem at the moment is we did not manage to sign a leader and or half back. We look a rabble on the pitch. Many do blame Pearson but I have to say if he goes we are in trouble.We do not seem to be competing with other clubs financially and I am not sure owning a stadium  is helpful or not.Depends on your backers and whether there is a chance of selling some of for housing.

We now need some stability as we have changed coaches too often. Thought Andy Last was just begining to see progress when  he was let go of. Also the remaining fans , me included, are now expecting us to fail and that does affect the atmosphere at games. Good job our noisy neighbours are so poor we can ignore them

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

22 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think most see Hull FC as a sleeping giant and they've underperformed the entire time I've watched RL. I was too young to remember the early 1980s when both Hull clubs had much success and got big crowds so only really recall them from the late 80s.

For me it's quite obvious the culture in the club is wrong both on and off the field. This stems from the top, just look at Pearson's moaning and outbursts, and a succession of poor coaches who haven't sorted out the playing side. I often get the feeling that they look to take shortcuts and think that overpaid signings make up for not getting the basics right. Pearson seems to think that spending the cap is job done when the Wigan, Saints and Leeds of this world do that and a heck of a lot more on top. They need to invest behind the scenes and hire the right people.

At all levels Hull FC seem to have been a failing club. The academy merger was again the easy, cheap option. There has been nothing stopping Hull FC having an academy like Wigan or Leeds and the talent has been there. Anyone that has played Hull amateur youth sides in years gone by knows that.

From what I hear they still have huge amount of youth talent to choose from.....baffling that they can't put out a top team 

A root to branch change needed for the whole club maybe 

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

There has been nothing stopping Hull FC having an academy like Wigan or Leeds and the talent has been there. Anyone that has played Hull amateur youth sides in years gone by knows that.

But this youth talent rarely results in top class international players. Who was the last Hull born Hull FC international player? Kirk Yeaman? Being good at youth level doesn’t mean you’ll make it to the top. Mikey Lewis is another one of very few Hull born international players in the last couple of decades to put a time scale on it. For whatever reason Hull born players don’t make the transition to top class pros in the same numbers as the two teams you mentioned. One amateur club in Wigan has produced more GB/England internationals than both professional Hull clubs combined since I’ve been watching the game.

Edited March 24 by Gomersall

[Ant]

34 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

But this youth talent rarely results in top class international players. Who was the last Hull born Hull FC international player? Kirk Yeaman? Being good at youth level doesn’t mean you’ll make it to the top. Mikey Lewis is another one of very few Hull born international players in the last couple of decades to put a time scale on it. For whatever reason Hull born players don’t make the transition to top class pros in the same numbers as the two teams you mentioned. One amateur club in Wigan has produced more GB/England internationals than both professional Hull clubs combined since I’ve been watching the game.

Is that not arguably because 1. Wigan hoover up all the local talent so have the biggest range to generate those top players.

2. Hull don't have an academy so they can't produce top players? 

It takes years for academies to produce consistently good results and that means funding and patience, Hull seem to lack both

[Damien]

42 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

But this youth talent rarely results in top class international players. Who was the last Hull born Hull FC international player? Kirk Yeaman? Being good at youth level doesn’t mean you’ll make it to the top. Mikey Lewis is another one of very few Hull born international players in the last couple of decades to put a time scale on it. For whatever reason Hull born players don’t make the transition to top class pros in the same numbers as the two teams you mentioned. One amateur club in Wigan has produced more GB/England internationals than both professional Hull clubs combined since I’ve been watching the game.

That's entirely my point and its not just about Hull born players, its what they produce full stop. I strongly suspect if these lads had been going into a setup and academy like Wigan for the last 20 odd years there would be an awful lot more. They are quite obviously not being developed properly and the investment/personnel is not there. Hull FC have been doing something badly wrong.

I also played at that amateur club you are referring to and played with lads that went on to play for GB, we lost against West Hull every time and those lads were outplayed. Sure it doesn't always translate to professional level but it is a very decent measure and it certainly shouldn't result in the huge, glaring difference in outcomes that we see. That differance comes from what happens after they sign pro.

Edited March 24 by Damien

[jacksy]

The talent in Hull is there and has been for donkeys years.

However, once they get to Hull and Rovers they rarely get a chance. 

I'm pretty sure the same coaches and assistants have been involved for years.

Shenton seemed to make an improvement at FC but he's now gone.

If Pearson had an ounce of rugby sense he would have been at Saints and Wigan investigating their setups and if necessary trying to get some of their coaches.

Actually, all the SL clubs should be all looking closely at those two clubs academies for ways to improve their own.

 

Edited March 24 by jacksy

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 hour ago, Gomersall said:

But this youth talent rarely results in top class international players. Who was the last Hull born Hull FC international player? Kirk Yeaman? Being good at youth level doesn’t mean you’ll make it to the top. Mikey Lewis is another one of very few Hull born international players in the last couple of decades to put a time scale on it. For whatever reason Hull born players don’t make the transition to top class pros in the same numbers as the two teams you mentioned. One amateur club in Wigan has produced more GB/England internationals than both professional Hull clubs combined since I’ve been watching the game.

I've been saying this a while. We bang on about our youth, but it never kicks on. We've had some above average players develop. When they get to the first team, they never develop further.

[Gomersall]

Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I've been saying this a while. We bang on about our youth, but it never kicks on. We've had some above average players develop. When they get to the first team, they never develop further.

It’s not a recent thing either. I can remember Hull colts being one of the dominant teams in the early 80s but hardly any of them went on to play regularly for the first team. I exclude Lee Crooks from that team because he made his debut at 17 and only played for the colts when required i.e. cup finals.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

We've signed some average players to replace far better ones leaving. We haven't actually replaced them all.

No leaders. No halves. No discipline. 

Really, what were we expecting? Our forwards spend more time off the pitch being punished (in and out of games).

At this stage, I'd really appreciate some honesty from the club and not the same old tired "stick with us, we're working on it, we're hurting, blah blah" because it's just not good enough anymore. We need something to be optimistic about. Our season is over before Easter.

[Gomersall]

47 minutes ago, Ant said:

Is that not arguably because 1. Wigan hoover up all the local talent so have the biggest range to generate those top players.

2. Hull don't have an academy so they can't produce top players? 

It takes years for academies to produce consistently good results and that means funding and patience, Hull seem to lack both

Hull had an academy for years but the talent still never came through in the numbers you would have expected.

[Tre Cool]

Who's in charge of recruitment? Whoever it is should go. If It's Smith then he 100% should be gone. Not buying this rubbish he's spouting about process and going through this to improve the team. The squad's terrible and nearly got beaten at home by the worst team in SL who are getting pumped by everyone.

[Mark S]

Two of the wealthiest families in Yorkshire live in and around Hull you would have thought that they would be able to tap them up for some cash. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

I remember dreading Monday morning assemblies, with the Widnes contingent at our school pitying a poor Wigan fan, a club about which this headline could have been written. I even found myself rooting for FC as one of the few clubs who could beat them, as indeed they did in a glorious replayed Cup Final. A few years later, along came Brett Kenny and John Ferguson and then… the wheels can turn, and I hope they do for FC. They simply need to find some Knocker, Crane and Topliss DNA from somewhere. 

[Worzel]

7 hours ago, super major said:

Good job our noisy neighbours are so poor we can ignore them

Yeah, at least there’s that eh.

[Worzel]

5 hours ago, jacksy said:

The talent in Hull is there and has been for donkeys years.

However, once they get to Hull and Rovers they rarely get a chance. 

I'm pretty sure the same coaches and assistants have been involved for years.

Shenton seemed to make an improvement at FC but he's now gone.

If Pearson had an ounce of rugby sense he would have been at Saints and Wigan investigating their setups and if necessary trying to get some of their coaches.

Actually, all the SL clubs should be all looking closely at those two clubs academies for ways to improve their own.

 

Lewis & Litten seem to be getting their chance. Could be the core of the England side in a year or two. 

[jacksy]

5 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Lewis & Litten seem to be getting their chance. Could be the core of the England side in a year or two. 

You clearly didn't read my post.