Halifax - the forgotten club?

[Mumby Magic]

Recently I've been having banter (and it's worked lol) with Blue Ox. It got me thinking on the recent championship thread about them, however I think it's worthy of a thread of it's own.

We talk about SL or potential SL clubs. Fax rarely get mentioned. Almost in a lot of coverage they are overlooked. 

Half decent stadium. Better than current SL clubs have had in recent years. Also are they just before Widnes the last team to win the title before the supposed big 4 (now excluding Bradford). 

 

[M j M]

They are a classic example of a club - and a town - the sport has managed to leave behind through neglect. Keeping the sport strong in places like Fax should be a cornerstone of the RFL's strategy because people there are so much easier to get as tv viewers and big game fans and young players than anywhere else.

The sport's ruthless focus on the motley collection of Super League clubs - many of which are no bigger than Halifax were before they went down - and an apparent disinterest in maintaining its general strength of the rest of the so-called heartlands at all levels is really disheartening. 

[JM2010]

Was thinking about a similar (ish) theme regarding where current professional players are from. 
Is there a better pack all from one community club than this at the moment? This is a pack made up from Siddal in Halifax. Imagine if Halifax could tap into their local players if they got back into SL.

Holroyd (Rhinos)

Leeming (Wigan)

Dupree (Wigan)

Nicholson (Warrington)

Gannon (Rhinos)

Smithies (Canberra).

Thats a pretty impressive pack all from the same community club in Halifax

 

Edited April 29 by JM2010

[Tre Cool]

17 minutes ago, M j M said:

They are a classic example of a club - and a town - the sport has managed to leave behind through neglect. Keeping the sport strong in places like Fax should be a cornerstone of the RFL's strategy because people there are so much easier to get as tv viewers and big game fans and young players than anywhere else.

The sport's ruthless focus on the motley collection of Super League clubs - many of which are no bigger than Halifax were before they went down - and an apparent disinterest in maintaining its general strength of the rest of the so-called heartlands at all levels is really disheartening. 

What about the RFLs strategy neglects non SL clubs? The RFL have zero income and the only club I've seen them directly help is Bradford Bulls (and that didn't work).  Every successful club either has a very rich owner or big support/stadia. This victim mentality helps nobody.  The problem is the sport's failed to grow commercially.  We have to protect the elite league to some extent or there'd be an even bigger problem for everyone.  If Fax want to be successful there's a clear route, but they need to generate their own money like everyone else.

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

What about the RFLs strategy neglects non SL clubs? The RFL have zero income and the only club I've seen them directly help is Bradford Bulls (and that didn't work).  Every successful club either has a very rich owner or big support/stadia. This victim mentality helps nobody.  The problem is the sport's failed to grow commercially.  We have to protect the elite league to some extent or there'd be an even bigger problem for everyone.  If Fax want to be successful there's a clear route, but they need to generate their own money like everyone else.

Yeah, the RFL neglects everyone equaly!

[M j M]

22 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

What about the RFLs strategy neglects non SL clubs? The RFL have zero income and the only club I've seen them directly help is Bradford Bulls (and that didn't work).  Every successful club either has a very rich owner or big support/stadia. This victim mentality helps nobody.  The problem is the sport's failed to grow commercially.  We have to protect the elite league to some extent or there'd be an even bigger problem for everyone.  If Fax want to be successful there's a clear route, but they need to generate their own money like everyone else.

I disagree, it's the sport's decision (maybe not the RFL's) to focus everything on the twelve or 13 current or recent SL clubs. In fact that's probably giving everyone too much credit: it's probably not even be a decision, it's just neglect, allowing the SL clubs all the power and lack of a central strategy.

The SL clubs include three, four or five who are genuinely big ones and the rest who happened to be in the right place at the right time and are no bigger than a bunch of other clubs who have been cast to one side over the past 20 or 30 years. That's the biggest problem with the IMG stuff - we have a load of teams who in the long run are all probably much of a muchness Grade Bs. But incumbency is now so huge that we have effectively permanently written the rest off, with the consequent decline in interest and engagement in Rugby League in those places.

The sport's core strategy should be AFL-like: as big and strong as possible in the north of England with strategic, long-term expansion plans into select new markets. Rugby League isn't really a northern sport any more. It's a sport that is strong in 11 or 12 towns in the north with a rag-tag bunch of other places where it used to be a dominant force and is now secondary or worse.

[Archie Gordon]

44 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

What about the RFLs strategy neglects non SL clubs? The RFL have zero income and the only club I've seen them directly help is Bradford Bulls (and that didn't work).  Every successful club either has a very rich owner or big support/stadia. This victim mentality helps nobody.  The problem is the sport's failed to grow commercially.  We have to protect the elite league to some extent or there'd be an even bigger problem for everyone.  If Fax want to be successful there's a clear route, but they need to generate their own money like everyone else.

The RFL/RLC/whoever has said that for any club in the Champ/L1, you have to better the turnover, attendances, TV viewers, etc, of a SL club to oust them. It's so obviously designed not to be a fair competition that I think 'neglect' is a fair word to use.

[whatmichaelsays]

19 minutes ago, M j M said:

 That's the biggest problem with the IMG stuff - we have a load of teams who in the long run are all probably much of a muchness Grade Bs. But incumbency is now so huge that we have effectively permanently written the rest off,

Isn't that more an issue with having such low / poorly enforced minimum standards to begin with? We have so many "B at best" clubs because we've accepted such low standards for so long? 

I'm not too sure what support the RFL / SLE could realistically offer a club like Halifax (not to mention many others who could argue such "potential") that would be enough to either move the needle in terms of what these clubs need, or elevate clubs like Halifax to a higher standard (rather than bring others to a lower one). Yes, you could revamp the currently flawed voting system, but I'd fully expect the representatives of Halifax, Featherstone and the rest to vote in their own self-interest much like the SL clubs do now. 

I'm no particular fan of "trickle down economics", but I'm not entirely sure what the RFL / SLE could realistically do to support clubs like Halifax - whose challenges often reflect the wider challenges of the community they serve - without undermining the one product it has that could be considered commercially promising. 

 

Edited April 29 by whatmichaelsays

[The Blues Ox]

As a Fax fan I am not sure what the club can do at this point to give us a chance of ever been back in SL again. We have just had a new board take over who judging by our squad this season and lack of updates about off the field things, do not have enough money to really give the club a push.

The fact is just like many other teams we would need a big backer to pump a lot of cash in to the club to massively improve the IMG rankings but because of the handicaps that Championship teams face with these, its probably something that has to be done over maybe 5 or more years because of the 3 year averages and to be honest it's going to be hard to find an investor willing to do that. I know if it were me putting a lot of money in then I would want pretty much instant success within a year or two at this level and I think that is another reason we are not really an attractive proposition.

The area itself is the producer of more talent than most, if not all, other areas but Fax have little chance of tapping in to that talent without been in SL themselves. A bit catch 22 with every player who touches a rugby ball from the age of about 14 up at Siddal signed to pro teams, Fax then have to wait until they are released and when money is tight its hard to take a gamble on an unproven player and most drift either back to Siddal or out of the game completley.

This is all before the attendance problems and for me there is not enough money in the town to see attendances rise, I mean even when we were doing well in this league an average of maybe about 2k was all we could achieve and twenty odd quid to watch a pretty average standard of rugby when there is so much more to do in the town makes it difficult. I mean you can make a day of it at Siddal and watch multiple games with the main game not been too far off the standard we are playing at and its easy to see why its a struggle.

That all sounds pretty bleak but I think we are in a bad spot at the moment, the squad needs a full rebuild apart from 3 or 4 players, the IMG finance ranking for the club paints a bleak picture as well and everything to do with the club feels half hearted. The rebrand had a chance to go places but again it was not pushed and its fizzled out in to a fad that most people won't remember in a few years.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Isn't that more an issue with having such low / poorly enforced minimum standards to begin with? We have so many "B at best" clubs because we've accepted such low standards for so long? 

I'm not too sure what support the RFL / SLE could realistically offer a club like Halifax (not to mention many others who could argue such "potential") that would be enough to either move the needle in terms of what these clubs need, or elevate clubs like Halifax to a higher standard (rather than bring others to a lower one). Yes, you could revamp the currently flawed voting system, but I'd fully expect the representatives of Halifax, Featherstone and the rest to vote in their own self-interest much like the SL clubs do now. 

I'm no particular fan of "trickle down economics", but I'm not entirely sure what the RFL / SLE could realistically do to support clubs like Halifax - whose challenges often reflect the wider challenges of the community they serve - without undermining the one product it has that could be considered commercially promising. 

 

The very fact Halifax etc continues to produce* loads of top quality players despite the pro team being nothing much to shout about for a generation only demonstrates further the fallacy if this "ignored heartlands" idea. 

It's also part of this delusional attitude that attaches the sports success in a given place to a professional club based in said town - with the implication being that not supporting the latter is somehow not supporting the former. Imagine how much money has actually been spent centrally over the past decade in these areas given as examples on the professional clubs that have mostly achieved zero with that money. It's genuinely shocking to think that the densely concentrated pro clubs in non Super League towns of West Yorkshire collectively will have received multiple millions from TV deals over the past decade yet we're having the same debate now that they are getting a vastly smaller sums. 

We're now directly paying the price for a total lack of strategy that has seen the lions share of money in the game go into the heartlands and frankly gotten completely lost to deliver poor returns. 

 

 

 

*Siddal do get lots of players moving to them from elsewhere, but not all.

[Tre Cool]

2 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

The RFL/RLC/whoever has said that for any club in the Champ/L1, you have to better the turnover, attendances, TV viewers, etc, of a SL club to oust them. It's so obviously designed not to be a fair competition that I think 'neglect' is a fair word to use.

Or you could say it's a kick up the ###### for clubs who've been relying on handouts for too long and not driving their own standards and income streams.

[Archie Gordon]

8 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

Or you could say it's a kick up the ###### for clubs who've been relying on handouts for too long and not driving their own standards and income streams.

Some of the clubs towards the bottom of SL may see it that way, yes. But this thread is about Halifax.

[bamfordsbeans]

The way the pro team are performing atm,I'm not sure that they're the best team in the town.

With the uncertainty over the ground and dire recent performances its a depressing time for us Fax fans.

[Just Browny]

Halifax are certainly an interesting case. As a club, they are well within the heartlands but have enough of their own 'patch' not to be overlapping with lots of other clubs, e.g. they are the only club within their local authority area. While not a city, it is similar population-wise to Wakefield and, as states, has a relatively healthy community game (not just Siddal). The stadium is fine and handily located for the town centre.

Having lived nearby for a couple of years, I think the club try hard to get kids into the ground from local schools/clubs but they face the same challenges as anywhere else in that most kids walk around in Man City and Liverpool tops.

I thought they were starting to build a decent team and put up a decent showing v Catalans in the cup, but their recent form has been alarming.

Edited April 30 by Just Browny

[sam4731]

7 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

What about the RFLs strategy neglects non SL clubs? The RFL have zero income and the only club I've seen them directly help is Bradford Bulls (and that didn't work).  Every successful club either has a very rich owner or big support/stadia. This victim mentality helps nobody.  The problem is the sport's failed to grow commercially.  We have to protect the elite league to some extent or there'd be an even bigger problem for everyone.  If Fax want to be successful there's a clear route, but they need to generate their own money like everyone else.

I'm sorry but the RFL completely neglects teams outside of SL. You speak of them needing to generate their own income like everyone else but a lot of clubs in SL are being propped up by their central funding, meaning that if those clubs went down they'd almost definitely go bust.

If you want an example of how much the RFL Favours SL clubs, look at this years broadcasting deal compared to last year. SL has managed to get all their games on telly, an aim of the RFL for years, however the Championship have lost their one game per week with no one really fighting their corner.

[Griff]

27 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

I'm sorry but the RFL completely neglects teams outside of SL. You speak of them needing to generate their own income like everyone else but a lot of clubs in SL are being propped up by their central funding, meaning that if those clubs went down they'd almost definitely go bust.

If you want an example of how much the RFL Favours SL clubs, look at this years broadcasting deal compared to last year. SL has managed to get all their games on telly, an aim of the RFL for years, however the Championship have lost their one game per week with no one really fighting their corner.

My understanding is that the clubs themselves turned down a deal.

[sam4731]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

My understanding is that the clubs themselves turned down a deal.

Well it's their own fault isn't it then? Or maybe they were given a bargain basement offer with no one fighting for a better deal which for a major sports second tier, shouldn't be too much to ask.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Well it's their own fault isn't it then? Or maybe they were given a bargain basement offer with no one fighting for a better deal which for a major sports second tier, shouldn't be too much to ask.

Major? 

[sam4731]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Major? 

Oh come on, let's be real. Despite the pessimism on here (including me) about the size of the game, we are very mainstream compared to a lot of other sports.

[RigbyLuger]

No-one, other than Premier, wants to show the Championship, the clubs should take it in house, and have no idea why they haven't.

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Oh come on, let's be real. Despite the pessimism on here (including me) about the size of the game, we are very mainstream compared to a lot of other sports.

We're a regional sport that punches above our weight. Scottish football level, maybe. 

Our second tier, whilst larger than some others, is still tiny too.

[sam4731]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

We're a regional sport that punches above our weight. Scottish football level, maybe. 

Our second tier, whilst larger than some others, is still tiny too.

I'd argue that Scottish football is also a major sport though, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

I'd argue that Scottish football is also a major sport though, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

At the top level maybe yes, but the lower tiers are, for the most part, pretty invisible beyond their immediate reach.

[sam4731]

18 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

At the top level maybe yes, but the lower tiers are, for the most part, pretty invisible beyond their immediate reach.

Big enough for BBC Scotland (so by definition, BBC iPlayer) to show several Championship and League 1 games a season.

[north yorks trinity]

3 hours ago, Just Browny said:

Halifax are certainly an interesting case. As a club, they are well within the heartlands but have enough of their own 'patch' not to be overlapping with lots of other clubs, e.g. they are the only club within their local authority area. While not a city, it is similar population-wise to Wakefield and, as states, has a relatively healthy community game (not just Wakefield). The stadium is fine and handily located for the town centre.

 

Not sure I understand what you mean by this so would you explain please before I correct you/have a go at you?