Salford financial issues(again…)

[FearTheVee]

2 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I hope this works out but why would a land investment newco buy a failed business with historic debt and no land assets?

Quite

Until further information comes out I'd say this has more signs of a mess than it does a solution

[Charlie]

15 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

They aren't suddenly going to rule the league any more than any other club has when it's ran into money. They'll be able to afford more on their marquees, but they already do spend money on top players - Nene MacDonald, Tim Lafai, Esan Marsters, Marc Sneyd. Salford have a top-class squad which is exactly the reason this thread was started in the first place.

The cap is still the cap and until that changes they still won't be able to spend as much as the big clubs like Wigan, Saints and Leeds because of dispensations, nor will they be able to be as efficient on the cap as those teams who are able to pay better players less because they either came through the academy or want to win trophies and being at a 'big club' helps that.

Paul Rowley is a great coach but he isn't going to break the system because he's got a few extra quid.

What is the current cap, Salford have spent around 2m for this season with no player on the marquee yet so there room to move but not a great deal 

[JohnM]

12 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Quite

Until further information comes out I'd say this has more signs of a mess than it does a solution

That's the true Spirit of Rugby League.

[RigbyLuger]

36 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

And I'll still criticise him despite being happy that Salford have been saved. Those are 2 entirely compatible views in my opinion. He gambled the fate of the club and his house and it came off, I'm glad it did and I'm most certainly glad that no one lost their house, but it absolutely does not justify his decisions to get himself into that position any more than it would a gambler who spent his rent money on scratchcards - the ends do not justify the means.

It's like ignoring looking into what went wrong at Bradford multiple times because it might upset people. The same applies here. We need to discover why Salford ended up as they did on more than one occasion, so others may not do the same (but still will.)

[Dave T]

Well, good luck to Salford. The best thing we can get here is an owner that wants to strengthen the club and make them stronger in themselves rather than just throwing money at some stuff like Koukash did. 

If they can pay their bills and implement proper strategies then let's see what they can do, because fundamentally, the income that they have been generating is just nowhere near high enough for an SL club. 

Who knows what the future will bring, but it all looks far more positive than it did a month ago!

[phiggins]

24 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I hope this works out but why would a land investment newco buy a failed business with historic debt and no land assets?

Isn't there a load of land around the stadium that the Council have bought as part of the stadium purchase? They could easily have bought or leased that land, with a view to investing in developments on it. Could be a very good thing for the club if there is also some regeneration in the area.

[Tommygilf]

25 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I hope this works out but why would a land investment newco buy a failed business with historic debt and no land assets?

He is just the front man of a consortium. Whether he is a significant money man himself, or merely a spokesperson for the actual money behind the club remains to actually be seen on Companies House.

Perhaps there are connections in the Greater Manchester area that we aren't able to see, or with the council.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, phiggins said:

Isn't there a load of land around the stadium that the Council have bought as part of the stadium purchase? They could easily have bought or leased that land, with a view to investing in developments on it. Could be a very good thing for the club if there is also some regeneration in the area.

Yes, it may seem a little leftfield, but I wouldn't be surprised if 'investments' like this are to support other developments that he may be keen on in the area. Let's call it building relationships with the local council and movers and shakers.

[LeytherRob]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Yes, it may seem a little leftfield, but I wouldn't be surprised if 'investments' like this are to support other developments that he may be keen on in the area. Let's call it building relationships with the local council and movers and shakers.

I think that is the most likely scenario, a chance to develop land in reasonably close proximity to the Trafford centre. Depending on what they've got planned though the road network infrastructure is going to need some serious upgrading to cope. It's already at breaking point even with Salford's modest gates.

As someone living under Salford Council, I'm just happy to see the debts have been cleared and am hoping the Council spend that money wisely on some long overdue upgrades across the area.

[FearTheVee]

28 minutes ago, JohnM said:

That's the true Spirit of Rugby League.

We'll see - if it gets them through the season it's a bonus vs where they currently are but I have my doubts about this in the longer term (as I did with Koukash when people were peddling nonsense about his net worth that couldn't possibly be true based on anything we knew about his business past).

Edited February 7 by FearTheVee

[RigbyLuger]

9 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

We'll see - if it gets them through the season it's a bonus vs where they currently are but I have my doubts about this in the longer term (as I did with Koukash when people were peddling nonsense about his net worth that couldn't possibly be true based on anything we knew about his business past).

People still believe the Doctor is some kind of saviour!

[Bull Mania]

 

58 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I hope this works out but why would a land investment newco buy a failed business with historic debt and no land assets?

I think it was mentioned on a podcast, Gary Carter said the takeover was two parts. One was the club. The second the stadium.  He's probably looked at the land/stadium as an investment opportunity and that investment is first on SRD. 

Great news for the club. Wiping out their debt should secure their future long term. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

5 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

People still believe the Doctor is some kind of saviour!

I thought he poured in a fortune of his own money. And left them with no debts. I may be wrong though. If so, then in many contexts those actions would be rightly praised. I thought the problem was the gap between the perception and the reality. 

[Stanley30]

17 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I thought he poured in a fortune of his own money. And left them with no debts. I may be wrong though. If so, then in many contexts those actions would be rightly praised. I thought the problem was the gap between the perception and the reality. 

Complete swing and a miss

[Martyn Sadler]

1 hour ago, LeytherRob said:

And I'll still criticise him despite being happy that Salford have been saved. Those are 2 entirely compatible views in my opinion. He gambled the fate of the club and his house and it came off, I'm glad it did and I'm most certainly glad that no one lost their house, but it absolutely does not justify his decisions to get himself into that position any more than it would a gambler who spent his rent money on scratchcards - the ends do not justify the means.

You can certainly criticise him but I think you have to ask what the alternatives were that he was facing.

At one extreme he could have pulled the plug and put the club into administration or even liquidation.

But that would have endangered and probably destroyed the club itself.

Or he could have flogged off all the club's star players and condemned it to a miserable season and an almost certain demotion to the Championship, with the uncertain future that implies.

In this case I think the end certainly does justify the means and I think he's actually played a blinder.

From what I understand, the investor has done a deal for the stadium and the surrounding land and we may be hearing an announcement about that in the foreseeable future.

But he's managed to get a deal whereby that investor has also agreed to buy the club, repay its debts and put together a new club administration.

He's obviously had a lot of help from Salford Council in doing that.

But he's pulled it off and that's what counts.

I suspect that any Salford fan on here will agree with me about the end justifying the means.

[phiggins]

23 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I thought he poured in a fortune of his own money. And left them with no debts. I may be wrong though. If so, then in many contexts those actions would be rightly praised. I thought the problem was the gap between the perception and the reality. 

I think that was his claim, and he may have written off debts to himself (no idea if he did or not), but it seems he left significant debt to the council behind

[sweaty craiq]

27 minutes ago, Bull Mania said:

 

I think it was mentioned on a podcast, Gary Carter said the takeover was two parts. One was the club. The second the stadium.  He's probably looked at the land/stadium as an investment opportunity and that investment is first on SRD. 

Great news for the club. Wiping out their debt should secure their future long term. 

Any value lies in the surrounding land, it would be why any body coming in to make money may take the package ie Council sell the land below market value but as part of the deal debts are repaid. Hope there is a caveat protecting SRD if this is the case. Option 2 are local lads made good wanting to take over the club or option 3 is SC moving in and making a few bob on all the land at both sites 

 

ps written before Sadlers post

Edited February 7 by sweaty craiq

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Worzel said:

The target end-state is 14 clubs and no loop fixtures. We need to strengthen the sport's commercial base to be able to afford them. One step comes before the other. Far better that than we all pretend that every club has the potential to be an elite club, when that clearly isn't true, and hold the elite comp back for a mirage. 

Clubs like Salford, Wakefield, Hull KR and others getting the inward investment needed to enable us to improve the matchday experience and invest in growing the audience is step one. All else follows. Without that, we were just salami slicing ourselves to slow regression. 

Th three clubs you mention are all in SL already, and have all been in a mess lately; HKR longer ago than the others. So if I had £5m to put into a championship club how would I get into SL? 

[phiggins]

28 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

You can certainly criticise him but I think you have to ask what the alternatives were that he was facing.

At one extreme he could have pulled the plug and put the club into administration or even liquidation.

But that would have endangered and probably destroyed the club itself.

Or he could have flogged off all the club's star players and condemned it to a miserable season and an almost certain demotion to the Championship, with the uncertain future that implies.

In this case I think the end certainly does justify the means and I think he's actually played a blinder.

From what I understand, the investor has done a deal for the stadium and the surrounding land and we may be hearing an announcement about that in the foreseeable future.

But he's managed to get a deal whereby that investor has also agreed to buy the club, repay its debts and put together a new club administration.

He's obviously had a lot of help from Salford Council in doing that.

But he's pulled it off and that's what counts.

I suspect that any Salford fan on here will agree with me about the end justifying the means.

The mismanagement was last year (and previous years to be honest). He could simply have not set a playing budget for 2025 that was in excess of what can be affordable, in the hope of somebody else coming in to pick up the bill.

I'm pleased the takeover is happening, it is the best result all round, but it didn't need to be all or nothing, and the fact that we are seeing this announcement on the day the competitive season starts, suggests this has gone a little too close to ending with nothing for comfort.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

Swiss lnvester....Could this be the Glazers of Salford?

[LeytherRob]

23 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

You can certainly criticise him but I think you have to ask what the alternatives were that he was facing.

At one extreme he could have pulled the plug and put the club into administration or even liquidation.

But that would have endangered and probably destroyed the club itself.

Or he could have flogged off all the club's star players and condemned it to a miserable season and an almost certain demotion to the Championship, with the uncertain future that implies.

In this case I think the end certainly does justify the means and I think he's actually played a blinder.

From what I understand, the investor has done a deal for the stadium and the surrounding land and we may be hearing an announcement about that in the foreseeable future.

But he's managed to get a deal whereby that investor has also agreed to buy the club, repay its debts and put together a new club administration.

He's obviously had a lot of help from Salford Council in doing that.

But he's pulled it off and that's what counts.

I suspect that any Salford fan on here will agree with me about the end justifying the means.

Of course they will, but dyed in the wool Salford fans aren't exactly going to provide you with a neutral or unbiased opinion on this would they? If the takeover hadn't gone through though and they went pop by round 5 though I suspect that any Salford fan wouldn't be singing Paul Kings praises though, would they? Again, to repeat the analogy, if a gambling addict spends their rent money on scratch cards but one comes off and they won £200k I'm sure they'd feel vindicated in their actions also.

You've fallen into the same trap as many others in turning the whole situation into a binary choice, since when were the only options to spend what they don't have, achieving 4th place or spend nothing and get 12th? There's an absolute chasm between those ridiculously extreme scenarios you've given, in which the sensible solution was always sat. It's particularly insulting to everyone's intelligence to make claims like that when there is a conveyor belt of examples of clubs within SL that have cut their cloth sensibly so they can live to fight another day, without having to get the begging bowl out to the other 11 clubs on the eve of a season. 

 

[Dave T]

44 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Th three clubs you mention are all in SL already, and have all been in a mess lately; HKR longer ago than the others. So if I had £5m to put into a championship club how would I get into SL? 

Fans	2
Digital	1
TV	0.75
Perf	2.6286
Bonus	0.35
Non-central Turnover	2.25
NCT %	0.75
Profit	0.5
Investment	0.5
Balance Sheet	0.5
Stadium	3
Catchment	1
Foundation	0.5

 

The above scores total 15.7pts, and this round would put a club in 6th place, just above Catalans. 

These scores are a club getting full scores for facilities and finances (turnover is only £2.5m at this level), performing well on the field, good digital performance and crowds of 3k+.

So basically, be a strong club, invest money in facilities, players, marketing etc. and you can get the results and ranking needed.

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Th three clubs you mention are all in SL already, and have all been in a mess lately; HKR longer ago than the others. So if I had £5m to put into a championship club how would I get into SL? 

If there was someone who wanted to put £5m into a random championship club, they've had 30 years to do it. Father Christmas isn't coming. What we need to do is attract investment into our elite league, so we can grow the competition which generates 99.9% of the sport's revenues, so we can support the growth of the game. 

[Worzel]

3 hours ago, WiganBooney said:

As someone who watched two previous takeovers of Wigan Athletic by supposedly wealthy buyers only to see the club almost disappear I hope you are right but a relatively new company with no filed accounts doesn't fill me with confidence. 

He's an overseas investor. Overseas investors by their very nature don't have UK-based businesses. He has a verifiable track record in his field, overseas. 

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Th three clubs you mention are all in SL already, and have all been in a mess lately; HKR longer ago than the others. So if I had £5m to put into a championship club how would I get into SL? 

You wouldn't.  I don't think you'd meet the necessary conditions. You are far too positive.

Edited February 7 by JohnM