Salford financial issues(again…)

[Taffy Tiger]

On 07/02/2025 at 15:47, Eddie said:

Th three clubs you mention are all in SL already, and have all been in a mess lately; HKR longer ago than the others. So if I had £5m to put into a championship club how would I get into SL? 

The proper way to do it would be to spread your investment .

I think £500k gets you a 0.25 score on director investment , which if done over 2 years will give you the max 0.5 pts available.

With the rest of your cash , it needs to be placed strategically , prioritising the criteria , as mentioned in earlier thread by DaveT.

Some of the criteria are straightforward ie Big Screen and LED boards , others less so . 

Investing in the team has to also be a priority though , as this is related to other criteria ie On Field Performance and Fandom (Attendance/Digital/Utilisation etc)

 

I think that a mistake a lot of people make when they say it's a closed shop or how can anyone else get in to SL , is that they are thinking very short term ie next season (the old P&R system) , whereas the new criteria is set in place to ensure that teams have a pathway to follow to make SL in the mid to long term and then have a solid enough foundation to not only survive but to thrive .

 

Edited February 8 by Taffy Tiger

[Eddie]

59 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Fans	2
Digital	1
TV	0.75
Perf	2.6286
Bonus	0.35
Non-central Turnover	2.25
NCT %	0.75
Profit	0.5
Investment	0.5
Balance Sheet	0.5
Stadium	3
Catchment	1
Foundation	0.5

 

The above scores total 15.7pts, and this round would put a club in 6th place, just above Catalans. 

These scores are a club getting full scores for facilities and finances (turnover is only £2.5m at this level), performing well on the field, good digital performance and crowds of 3k+.

So basically, be a strong club, invest money in facilities, players, marketing etc. and you can get the results and ranking needed.

Trouble is, how do you build the fan base or have the required performance to get into SL if you’re not in SL? The traditional option of being the best team outside SL isn’t available any more. And why would you build a SL stadium if you dint know if you’ll be allowed in or not. 

Edited February 7 by Eddie

[Taffy Tiger]

29 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Trouble is, how do you build the fan base or have the required performance to get into SL if you’re not in SL? The traditional option of being the best team outside SL isn’t available any more. And why would you build a SL stadium if you dint know if you’ll be allowed in or not. 

0.25 points for winning GF and a further 0.1 points for winning 1895 Cup also available .

 

Even without 1895 Cup , the 0.25 points for winning GF , would mean that you had a higher performance score than the bottom 2 SL teams , presuming your own 3-year average is 13th 

[Worzel]

30 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Trouble is, how do you build the fan base or have the required performance to get into SL if you’re not in SL? The traditional option of being the best team outside SL isn’t available any more. And why would you build a SL stadium if you dint know if you’ll be allowed in or not. 

Don't we have a thread for this? Like, an absoluetly massive one. Let's take this there.

The Salford investment is brilliant news for the game. They've got a great ground, great coach, decent squad and what the organisation has always needed is some consistent investment in order to build a bigger audience in what is a pretty large geographic market. Let's celebrate that today I reckon.   

[Dave T]

40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Trouble is, how do you build the fan base or have the required performance to get into SL if you’re not in SL? The traditional option of being the best team outside SL isn’t available any more. And why would you build a SL stadium if you dint know if you’ll be allowed in or not. 

The standards are pretty low Eddie. We're talking 3k crowds (and they can be lower), and pretty modest financially.

But what you want are guarantees before you spend money, not many systems offer that I'm afraid.

[Red Willow]

2 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

Of course they will, but dyed in the wool Salford fans aren't exactly going to provide you with a neutral or unbiased opinion on this would they? If the takeover hadn't gone through though and they went pop by round 5 though I suspect that any Salford fan wouldn't be singing Paul Kings praises though, would they? Again, to repeat the analogy, if a gambling addict spends their rent money on scratch cards but one comes off and they won £200k I'm sure they'd feel vindicated in their actions also.

You've fallen into the same trap as many others in turning the whole situation into a binary choice, since when were the only options to spend what they don't have, achieving 4th place or spend nothing and get 12th? There's an absolute chasm between those ridiculously extreme scenarios you've given, in which the sensible solution was always sat. It's particularly insulting to everyone's intelligence to make claims like that when there is a conveyor belt of examples of clubs within SL that have cut their cloth sensibly so they can live to fight another day, without having to get the begging bowl out to the other 11 clubs on the eve of a season. 

 

Why wouldn't we provide an unbiased view. Most of the fans I know are level headed. Most clubs in SL would struggle if their benefactor walked out,

King picked up the pieces following the mess Koukash caused. He steadied the ship. On the other hand he gambled the future on being a community club and funding that never materialised.

Irwin was involved at the Roosters, so has a background in RL.

[LeytherRob]

25 minutes ago, Red Willow said:

Why wouldn't we provide an unbiased view. Most of the fans I know are level headed. Most clubs in SL would struggle if their benefactor walked out,

King picked up the pieces following the mess Koukash caused. He steadied the ship. On the other hand he gambled the future on being a community club and funding that never materialised.

Irwin was involved at the Roosters, so has a background in RL.

True, but most would not continue to spend like they do have a benefactor when they didn’t. We know this because clubs like Wakefield, Castleford, Hull KR, Leigh have all done exactly that in the past. One club did, Bradford, and we all know how that went. Paul King didn’t steady the ship, a steady ship doesn’t need half million pound bailouts. It was a ship sinking faster than the titanic, just because a 5 star Cruiseliner has come along just in time to show you all a good time doesn’t make Paul King justified, it makes him incredibly lucky.

financially prudent owners don’t mortgage their house so they can have Nene MacDonald and Esan Marsters. Idiots do.

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 hours ago, Worzel said:

If there was someone who wanted to put £5m into a random championship club, they've had 30 years to do it. Father Christmas isn't coming. What we need to do is attract investment into our elite league, so we can grow the competition which generates 99.9% of the sport's revenues, so we can support the growth of the game. 

Dozens of major investors have stepped up in the last 30 years. This 12 happen to be the 12 when the music for the current round of musical chairs happened to stop. Father Christmas has come over and over again. The problem with Salford, I would argue, is that they have shown virtually zero ability to grow themselves or the game. If the test was what would be the best way to grow the game, then, over your 30 years you would have Bradford far above Salford by pretty much every measure. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Dozens of major investors have stepped up in the last 30 years. This 12 happen to be the 12 when the music for the current round of musical chairs happened to stop. Father Christmas has come over and over again. The problem with Salford, I would argue, is that they have shown virtually zero ability to grow themselves or the game. If the test was what would be the best way to grow the game, then, over your 30 years you would have Bradford far above Salford by pretty much every measure. 

When was the last time the league had as many benefactors as now and as many strong clubs?

[johnh1]

I’d like to place on record my thanks for what Paul King has done. He could have let the club wither and die. Instead, he mortgaged his house to keep the club going. I’m delighted for him that he has his house back and that the club is not only still here, but has the potential to go places.
 

I also appreciate the many comments from rival fans about what good news this is and who have wished the Salford club well.

As expected, the silence from dboy is deafening.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

"I may have missed it, but does anyone know WHY a Swiss banker, allegedly some Samoans, and a consortium of other unknown randoms have actually done this?

It can't be for the money as there's no money in the game. And I don't think Zurich is an untapped hotbed of Rugby League either."

 

https://deviltalk.co.uk/thread/3451/takeover-thread?page=26

[up the robins]

Really pleased for the Salford fans, this is great news not just for Salford but the sport it self, as people have been mentioning has there ever been this amount of investment in Rugby league ever from new investors.

[Josef K]

Ruddy hell they could’ve waited to sort the deal out after they had played Saints then we might’ve stood a chance. 
In all seriousness i am really pleased for them, their fans deserve it they’re some of the most vocal in the game. They’re a great side to watch. 

[Wakey Til I Die]

Glad to see they have finally got this over the line and even happier to see they are putting their own management in place. For all Paul King did just about keeping the clubs head above water it needs new know-how to take it forward and prosper. And a strong club in the Greater Manchester region can only benefit the game. 

[Sammo]

Fantastic for the club to get a bit of stability. My only concern is what happens when the real estate deals are ‘done’? Do Salford find themselves in a situation where they have an owner that has extracted all of the value they can and isn’t interested in subsidising the club any longer? Hopefully not an issue in the short term though

[RayCee]

1 hour ago, Sammo said:

Fantastic for the club to get a bit of stability. My only concern is what happens when the real estate deals are ‘done’? Do Salford find themselves in a situation where they have an owner that has extracted all of the value they can and isn’t interested in subsidising the club any longer? Hopefully not an issue in the short term though

Would their costs associated with the SRD have any tax deduction benefit as a sponsorship arrangement?

[Pigeon Lofter]

1 hour ago, Sammo said:

Fantastic for the club to get a bit of stability. My only concern is what happens when the real estate deals are ‘done’? Do Salford find themselves in a situation where they have an owner that has extracted all of the value they can and isn’t interested in subsidising the club any longer? Hopefully not an issue in the short term though

Perhaps there will a covanent placed on the stadium, in the next phase of this bizarre purchase, specifying it's use as a RL stadium, (in perpetuity?).

It looks very much like a land deal, rather than the purchase of a sports club, as you say.

 

[The 4 of Us]

13 hours ago, Worzel said:

He's an overseas investor. Overseas investors by their very nature don't have UK-based businesses. He has a verifiable track record in his field, overseas. 

He may well have, but finding information about him and his record, at least UK based, is very difficult.

This is The Business Desk’s view

https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2146831-more-questions-linger-as-salford-red-devils-sold-to-swiss-led-consortium/

Joining the dots, it looks like Salford Council have a property developer on hand to help with the development of the wider Salford Stadium estate.

Salford Red Devils were obviously a thorn in the council’s side, both in respect of money owed by them, as well as their viability and ability to share costs of the stadium going forward.

I just wonder if we will now see Salford City moving across town to the stadium and Sale Sharks being the team that is squeezed out. That’ll leave a 12 month operation and maximising of the facilities.

Salford Council make their investment back or at least enhance it and it allows wider development of the whole site. 
 

A very recent example of this here

https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2146813-salford-council-approves-peel-data-centre-plan/

[Archie Gordon]

11 hours ago, Damien said:

When was the last time the league had as many benefactors as now and as many strong clubs?

It is not long since we had Toronto, London and TO with money and ambition behind them.

It really isn't true that this is a unique era of investment into our clubs. As someone else has said, we're just at a moment where the music has stopped - well done to the 12 with seats.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Archie Gordon said:

It is not long since we had Toronto, London and TO with money and ambition behind them.

So a smaller number, a bit of smoke and mirrors money, a lot of misdirected money, and no realistic strategy.

The hope is that we do better.

[Archie Gordon]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

So a smaller number, a bit of smoke and mirrors money, a lot of misdirected money, and no realistic strategy.

The hope is that we do better.

Completely agree.

The narrow point I'm opposing is that we're seeing investment and we've not seen any/much for ages. We have.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Archie Gordon said:

Completely agree.

The narrow point I'm opposing is that we're seeing investment and we've not seen any/much for ages. We have.

That's fair. I'd slightly counter it by saying in terms of seeing what look like reasoned improvements in teams and clubs in the pro and semi pro sphere, it's been a while since we had so many heading in the right direction.

As always, I'd then argue against myself by saying the game as a whole is still a right mess, just not as a big a mess as far too many defeatists like to say.

And we're bigger than darts, and that's the main thing.

[Superb Chops]

1 hour ago, The 4 of Us said:

He may well have, but finding information about him and his record, at least UK based, is very difficult.

This is The Business Desk’s view

https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2146831-more-questions-linger-as-salford-red-devils-sold-to-swiss-led-consortium/

... 

With regards to The Business Desk, the headline is click bait to accompany an article that seems to rely heavily on cut'n'pasting an announcement. 

It would have been good for the item to pose the suggested questions referenced in the header. This Desk piece doesn't have a leg to stand on otherwise. 

On Salford, they appear to have finance and security behind them now, if the owners' stated motivations are firm. That's great news for any RL side - but especially one that is so entertaining with committed support, having dug deep financially during urgent spells. 

Good luck Salford and enjoy what looks now to be calmer times off the field. 

Edited February 8 by Superb Chops

[Damien]

26 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

It is not long since we had Toronto, London and TO with money and ambition behind them.

It really isn't true that this is a unique era of investment into our clubs. As someone else has said, we're just at a moment where the music has stopped - well done to the 12 with seats.

Toronto played a handful of games in SL during Covid and went bust. London ain't been particularly strong for about 2 decades. Toulouse certainly weren't strong in SL either. None of these were even in SL at the same time.

[Archie Gordon]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Toronto played a handful of games in SL during Covid and went bust. London ain't been particularly strong for about 2 decades. Toulouse certainly weren't strong in SL either. None of these were even in SL at the same time.

True.

I meant investment in clubs in the UK system rather than SL in particular.