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The answer is simple (and as much as we all groan when they do it) - if this competition had been held in the USA there would have been an army of lawyers suing the pants off the Antipodeans for pulling out at this stage.

While I agree they should have handled it better (4 minutes notice), their general apathy towards international RL is completely understandable, unless you are blinkered. They have played in every previous RLWC, so they haven’t disrespected it, and in all that time the dial hadn’t budged in terms of “growing the game”. As it happens I think they are genuine in pulling out due to their concern with covid as they are taking extreme measures in Australia, similar to here at the start. The Aussie Olympic team is in a bubble, and competitors go home when they are done. Both the Aussie cricket and RU team are in a bubble when they tour. In contrast players from the NRL would be spread out over 16 international teams, and would have shared facilities with the general public. This is the reason they gave for the differing attitude with other sports. Of course if the RLWC was lucrative they’d almost certainly go the extra mile to make sure they (and the other NRL players) were there. With extra funds from the tournament they would also be able to afford the cost of top notch accommodation, transport, facilities etc.

I did not miss your point at all. I was drawing out that this issue today is around a particular set of facts at a particular time. There are lots of reasons why the NRL might think as they do, but those issues have been around for years. It is not inevitable that a league, or any group of people behaves appallingly, and seeks to damage everyone in sight for no reason. The NRL could have pulled the plug on this any time in the last 5 years, but chose their moment with complete disregard for the rest of the sport. This isn’t a debate about player release, or the balance of power, or even the timetable for the international game, this is naked bullying of the worst sort.

This is why it is important to make it clear that the NRL is insular even in comparison with other Australians and Australian sports. It is so insular that it gets a nosebleed at the prospect of playing in Adelaide or Perth.

The fantastic post you refer to was in response to an earlier one from me. I don't know if you read it but his ''fantastic post'' was a complete misunderstanding of what I'd said. You don't make clear what it was you found so fantastic, why don't you explain in some detail? Meanwhile, copied and pasted in bold below, is my response to the post you found so ''fantastic''. I didn't say the Australians are ambivalent about International Sport. I said the NRL are ambivalent about International Rugby League. The ambivalence is an amalgam of the players desire to play in it and the administrators fear of the competition for the hearts and minds of spectators, (whose only option now is State of Origin). Vlandys made it quite clear, he doesn't care what the players want, he's protecting their flagship competition. My point is, until this mismatch between the IRL desires (for growing International RL family) and the NRL loathing for the prospect of beefed up International competition, they (the NRL) will continue to thwart our hopes and dreams. Efficient growth of the sport globally requires the antipodes to be onside. By the way, as an aside, I take issue with you speaking for ''most people''. You don't know what ''most people'' think at all, and even if you were right, I stand by the legitimacy of promoting International RL to the people that don't think it's rubbish. This World Cup was expecting to exceed all previous ticket sales and viewing figures. So it really doesn't matter what ''most people'' think as long as the minority that do enjoy watching it, is sufficient to pay the bills.

I have tried to follow your train of thought, but i am really struggling to see what the point your trying to make is. If it’s NRL have loads of money and the Aussies never lose so they view the international game differently from us, then, err, yes that’s so. I think that would be worth a separate thread, but what this thread is about (without being presumptuous) is THIS World Cup and what they have done over to the rest of the game in the last 3 weeks. If their view has always been exactly as you describe, then they should have raised this in one of the dozens of meetings they attended, seeing first hand the real live thousands of hours spent by hundreds of people to put this together. They could have saved everyone a great deal of trouble by withdrawing at any time earlier than when they chose to do so - on 4 minutes notice. Pretty much everyone on this thread knows the reality of where the power resides, what matters here is how that power has been exercised. By all means, though, start a thread on reasons why the Aussies are justified in viewing the rest of the world with contempt. I think that would be an interesting discussion point.

I don’t know about that but they’ve certainly avoided Test RL while they’ve been rebuilding since the 2017 WC.

"There has to be something close to parity, or a continuous challenge, to fire up public/player interest in Australia. That must be the long term goal for England and others." How will anyone know that has or is happening if Australia continues to default on the International game? By their actions in hiding behind the excuses given, why would anyone trust the Aussie/NRL authorities to turn up in 2022 or 2025. I certainly would not, which is why postponement is so wrong. Hold it now, and if Aus and or NZ don't turn out, mark them down as no shows. In years to come, the results will only show who won the 2021 World Cup, not who didn't turn up.

I think we are in danger of mixing up a few things here. It is possible to argue that the Australians are justified in feeling that international RL is not to their benefit, and it is possible to argue that they would be better running the whole show. If that’s what you want to argue, start a new thread on it. Indeed, there could even be one about the NFL/NHL approach. These are important points. What this thread concerns is the here and now - an actual World Cup, in which the ARL has been front and centre for each month for the last 5 years. At any point, they could have made it clear that withdrawal was a possibility. Instead, they got to 4 seconds to midnight and then exploded the tournament, bringing NZRL with them. Even their “the Aussies are the great ones, and you are all losers” posters on this thread do not dispute that. They did not consult their own players, and they did not engage in a dialogue prior to their announcement. There is no other way of looking at that than that it was a betrayal of the international game, and to borrow Dutton’s word, it treated the organisers with “contempt”. As far as everyone else in the international game is concerned, they are worse off as a consequence - every other nation playing our game. Plus, hundreds of paid and unpaid tireless workers have had their work trashed and traduced, on no notice. The game has to find a way to move on, but just because you’re big enough to smash everyone else’s head in doesn’t mean that’s the right thing to do.

They see the growth of the International Game as direct competitor to State of Origin and something which can undermine their claim that SoO is the highest standard of RL in the World. Their wholehearted support for the International game, could see it grow rapidly, and provide the lucre, you claim would change their attitude. Their support is virtually non-existent, as you know and it is the threat to the credibility of their claims about SoO and the resulting downturn in the fortunes of SoO which a hugely successful World Cup would bring about, that prevents them from giving it the backing they should. How naive we were to think that we all wanted the same thing.

Ultimately the breadwinner cannot be punished. It just happened recently with the Premier League not punishing (to any great degree) the “big six” clubs who were attempting to break away to form a European Super League. Those six clubs generate the most interest and money, and the others rely on them for the vast sums they make. Australia provides how many players across the 16 RLWC teams? It’s a big number. You alienate them they then completely close the door and there is no RLWC again. It unfortunate, but it’s reality.

Then why aren't they coming? Why wait to explode a bomb under the competition? Perhaps because if they had done the decent thing by making it clear they would not come 6 months ago, then the competition would have gone on without them thus puncturing the myth that they are the First Nation as far as Rugby league is concerned. They are scared, but it is not just one thing that they are scared of, it is as always in the real world a combination of things, and the least of those is COVID.

The poster was clearly calling "garbage" the suggestion that Australia don't want to play anymore because their fear not being the best anymore. I agree that it's a nonsense accusation.

The world cup drama may well have woken the Australians up to the fact that not only are the majority of their competition now qualified to play for other nations, they are willing to actually play for those nations instead of Australia too.

Garbage.

I fear that if International RL becomes more competitive and Australia can’t be as dominant as they have been in the past then the authorities down there would lose what little interest they have now in playing international games. I really feel that if they can’t be the best and dominant team then they would rather not play at all.

Ludicrously proud of myself. Parkrun time of 22:28. When I did my first one then breaking 25 minutes was the absolute limit of my ambition and I didn't think I'd ever do it.

I know what you are saying and especially agree with last point that we and others need to get to that level. Of course the irony is that this World Cup promised to be the most competitive challenge for Australia yet - with 4 teams capable of winning it. Still way off other sports and they are still favourites but a big step forward. And ultimately it’s the sport’s World Cup. Even if you win it every time, even if you are a class or more above everyone else and even if you don’t respect it as a competition… the sport’s administration/should have the decency to respect others who do see it in a better light than you and not pull out with 4 minutes notice.

Don't blame him.... Hopefully other NRL players go to.... Then maybe the NRL will wake up

Balls. If they claim to be the best in world, they have to play the rest of the world

I remember the Vulcan's farewell tour. I went up to Scarborough and was down on the front when it came over and banked round the castle. Deafening, probably the loudest thing ive ever heard. Best thing about it though was I couldn't here that woman who lives in my house moaning for a few hours!

Having been buzzed at low altitude by that thing, I'd say it isn't the most discreet mode of transport, though. My ears were ringing for ages afterwards.

Course he does he plays for Man City

I watched the Eliud Kipchoge documentary on Sky the other night. 2.50 per km over 42 km. That's 8 parkruns and a bit at 14.10 each. He's quite good at running. My best recorded kilometer, slightly downhill, is 4.16.

Because they are a full time moneyed outfit based in England playing in a mostly part time Welsh league purely as a way of guaranteeing themselves European football. Cuckoos.

Some would say given that most of their star players have retired and they have lost 2 of their past 4 games, that Australia are losing interest in international RL because they know they arnt top dog anymore... As someone on here hinted - running scared...

The whole of your post misses the point that Int RL will only grow if the NRL back it The 4 nations? Said it a million times, it was watched by a lot of none fans down here in the South as it was on BBC and was a recognused format. I.e. People who do not care or know about RL become aware / become interested. That is just one part of growth Overall growth needs to be planned for with investment in time, money and spreading the glamour and success the N** already has World RU understands this and always has..... They are doing very well out of it. Let's get some of it ourselves

I do love a good 70s diesel loco. I remember a couple of times after evening games at the Circle/KC/KCOM/MKM and I went back for the train, there would be one of those big locos sat in the station hauling some goods wagons. The sound and smell when it set off was just amazing! Other Hull fans were looking at me like I was a right sad act when I was basically messing my trousers up but I didn't care! A couple of times the flying banana was sat in there as well and I got myself a few photos, I don't care what people think, I enjoy myself!

Who could blame him? More money more profile regular high profile internationals (he could even play for France).

There's lots of aspects to this video that it's a shame to have lost (not John Stapleton's lazy assumption that steam locos were more interesting though).

A month ago it looked like my home town club might not start the season. In fact they might have ceased to exist. Court case over ownership, potential points deduction from EFL (still might happen), players and staff unpaid, our new management team left after a week, only 5 contracted players on the books (plus youth players), fans boycotting putting any money into the club until our owner had gone. I won't say what I think of him. Then the court case went in favour of our Aussie "saviour" and in the last two weeks we've had more fan/club engagement than in the previous 8 years (probably ever). Our new CEO is an actual fan, there will be fan representation from the Official Supporters Club and Trust on the board. A new management team brought in, new players brought in, we now have the possibility of having quite a good starting XI (squad still short of cover apart from the kids). The changes have brought a real positivity around the town/county. Sales of season tickets and shirts are going well. About 1000 of us are heading to Scunthorpe today, realistic that this season could still be a struggle, but so pleased we have our club back! My brother is picking me and 3 mates up in about 3hrs to head north. We haven't all travelled together to a opening game for 25 years. Win, lose or draw - WE ARE SWINDON! C'mon Town!

Is this the same Australia who have lost 2 out of their last 4 games and now can't beat Tonga??

The thing I’m referring to is Aussies routinely get labelled “insular” (even John Davidson, an Aussie, did so this week) which is complete nonsense as it is contradicted by every other sport they participate. When they got zero golds in the Montreal Olympics they started the Institute of Sport in response...there’s also a constant rivalry with how many medals GB has won. When it’s Ashes time the country comes to a standstill. When they played Italy in the 2006 FIFA World Cup the tv viewership was over 4 million for a game played in the middle of the morning. When RU was popular there they got huge ratings especially for epic games vs NZ when they were the two best teams. When it’s competitive, and lucrative, Aussies (like anyone) are interested. International RL has been neither of those two things for a long time. When tv stations show old footage of games which one in Australia is going to show a clip of the ‘71 RLWC final played before 3k in France? It’s small time. This is contrasted by their domestic game which is lauded (think of the epic gladiators image from around the same era that is replicated on the NRL trophy). They created/elevated the state of origin series because they had to. There was a void that needed to be filled as international RL did not provide what is required. If and when international RL becomes competitive and also becomes financially rewarding then the Aussies (which includes the NRL) will give it more attention. The tri (four) nations, honestly how serious is that taken? And do Aussies send their full strength XIII for these? In the event this thread is about, the RLWC, they have lost one tournament in half a century. The only world championship (of the top of my head) with dominance comparable to this is Phil Taylor in darts. I watched Penrith games recently (the few before they got thumped by Melbourne) and it was like watching a different sport. Nathan Cleary was orchestrating things unlike anything I’d seen in Super League. Until such time that gulf in quality is bridged Aussies won’t go out of their way to arrange games here, much like England’s (justified) attitude towards France. There has to be something close to parity, or a continuous challenge, to fire up public/player interest in Australia. That must be the long term goal for England and others.

They have dominated the sport unlike any national team in any other sport. Half a century bar one RLWC of complete dominance. And losing one tournament doesn’t affect you when it’s rare. It’s greeted with a shrug. For Australia to pay any attention to the game outside Australia there has to be a challenge, a sustained challenge. Half a century of near complete dominance, yeah they are the best. By a long long way. With a lack of competition outside the club game they elevated State of Origin to fill the gap. Apathy caused State of Origin to take off. If the situation was the same in cricket with little competition outside Australia there’d be a state of Origin in Aussie cricket to match RL.

No surprise there. Am sure the usual suspects will be along to pontificate that he is "no great loss", that the NRL is a "production line" of 1.96m confrontational, aggressive, athletic, sprinters, and that him leaving "won't stop Penrith scoring loads of tries". (Copyright Davo from Cumbria). Meanwhile union will continue to hoover up the 'bums on seats' players who actually want to see the world, and proudly represent their country in international "rugby". The navel gazing will continue.

For a long time now I've been of the opinion that the real reason for the game's weakness and stunted growth was not Union at all, but the small-minded parochialism of its own leaders. This sorry episode has shown that very clearly. I'd suggest that they first have to make sure it goes ahead next year now before they can think further ahead.

Apathy is also caused by not paying games whilst other events like SOO are promoted as the pinnacle instead.

Have England lost to France of 2 on the last 4 occasions? Australia has won only 2 test matches in 5 years and lost the other two they have played (including to a tier 2 nation). Yet the international field is deemed not competitive by them? I don't buy it.

The European Rugby League's statements on the World Cup have been a little stronger than the others throughout this NRL inflicted farce and this is another. It's the first one that specifically really talks about the NRL. Of course the ERL and European Rugby League were the targets of comments by the likes of Richardson, Gould et al so probably know they have more to lose than anyone by the NRL's quest to take over. I think this is what everyone is waiting for from the NRL: Given their impact on other nations in respect of the availability of NRL-based players, it is now imperative that the Australian Rugby League Commission and New Zealand Rugby League, who have pressured for the delay, fully deliver on their renewed commitment to this pinnacle event for the sport; it is time for actions not words. https://europeanrugbyleague.com/articles/2002/european-rugby-league-board-statement-re...

Because that was the plan and decision made going back to the choosing of having the World Cup in 2013. The 4 year cycle going forward from then purposely avoids the Football World Cup, Olympics and RU World Cup. They did also say that the 2025 World Cup will stay in 2025.

21-Jun 14-Jul 06-Aug Week Gain/Loss Total Gain/Loss Shadow 87.10 86.10 88.20 2.10 0.70 Bedford Roughyed 164.70 164.70 164.70 0.00 7.30 Tim2 66.70 67.90 68.30 0.40 -5.80 Matt Santos 120.00 121.00 121.00 0.00 -3.00 CanaBull 71.66 72.25 77.25 5.00 3.31 Damien 104.30 104.30 104.30 0.00 -0.93 Bob8 78.50 78.50 78.50 0.00 -2.20 bobbruce 89.40 89.40 89.40 0.00 -3.20 Wiltshire Rhino 120.10 120.10 -20.50 gingerjon 81.00 81.00 80.50 -0.50 0.50 863.36 865.15 992.25 127.10 -23.82 I will be back out running from Saturday AM, I'm registered for Park Run and will aim to get on there by the end of August. I want to be able to run 5K without stopping before I go there. I also hope my extra 2Kg is largely fluid retention, Edema's one of the side effects of one of the many drugs I am prescribed and my ankles do look like pillows at the end of the day.

“They see the growth of the International Game as direct competitor to State of Origin and something which can undermine their claim that SoO is the highest standard of RL in the World.” Do you genuinely believe this? Didn’t State of Origin take off because of the absence of a top quality international scene? When the Aussies make those great player lists they don’t look outside their shores (which maybe gingerjon would see as insular). They don’t respect the standard outside Australia, and will only consider including a player in such a list who has played in the NRL. I’ve heard in NRL commmetary “such and such a player is good enough for an Queensland/NSW jumper”. Again, this could be construed as insular, or it could just be (like their greatest players list and the NRL) they see Origin as the highest level. Don’t English lads talk about the prospect of playing in the NRL as being the ultimate for them? Think I heard a few in the Mick Gledhill podcasts. Players in the Scottish Premiership do this with the Premier League.

“Hence why they are playing at the Euros”... good lord. The Scots should sign you up as their PR man. Their first tournament in how long? And a tournament that’s become so enlarged that it’s almost harder not to qualify for it. Comparatively speaking, Scotland have declined far more than Ireland in that the Scots could have picked an entire squad full of top class talent, now it’s restricted to Andy Robertson (Ryan Tierney too, If being generous). That’s it. From Ally McCoist banging them in for Rangers, to who? *crickets* From Alec McLeish and Willie Miler forming a imperious central defensive partnership for an Aberdeen team who beat Real Madrid to win the UEFA Cup Winners Cup....to who? *crickets* From Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, Law and the greatest Scottish (and Celtic) player ever, Jimmy Johnstone, to who? *crickets* This decline in spite of having a professional domestic league. The reason for their decline is the same as here, not enough kids are being produced because of the decline in street football which is where most of the previous talent came from. None better than Georgie Best who developed his game on a playing field in his Cregagh estate (now since protected). Where once there were playing fields, now there are housing estates and supermarkets. What’s happened is because the sport is global, Premier League clubs can now fill any shortage of players from Scotland or Ireland with players from around the world that still have street football (front three at Liverpool, Salah from Egypt, Mane from Senegal, Firmino from Brazil, are all a product from playing on the street).

I agree that the NRL running the game won’t change a thing. They are pushing a wide open door in Australia. The onus is on the people running the game here to have a better plan. Toronto I feel was a way forward as I can only see growth happening if it comes from outside these shores where there isn’t any perception of what RL is (a regional game detached from those outside it), but they were treated pretty shabbily imo. Vlandys, Gould and co. don’t come across well at all, but the general criticism of Australia I have never got. Their apathy towards the game outside Aus is fully warranted. As 17 stone giant rightly points out, Aussies are not insular when it comes to sport, in fact they are arguably the least insular as it’s their major chance to shine on the world stage. The problem is RL doesn’t give them the competitive or financial incentive that is required. Won every RLWC bar one for half a century, won every series against GB for half a century. Winning is humdrum when it’s that frequent. Of course it’s the opposite for GB (or Eng) as having not won in so long winning would then become monumental, but you can’t judge them by your own standards. You have to take a step back and see it from both sides. Then there’s the financial disparity. If your domestic league is worth billions (Aus), and a what is deemed a successful RLWC makes £4 million, this affects the Aussie brand. The Aussie media builds up RL as a big time sport, a RLWC counters that effort. Ultimately the game outside Aus has to make it worthwhile for Aus.