Football

[HawkMan]

1 hour ago, ivans82 said:

I personally want an explanation why Everton have started winning  .  They have gone from Coupon bankers to lose to Coupon busters inside a week    !

Perhaps the real Sean Dyche is a bit like this.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by HawkMan

[Gerrumonside ref]

VAR was a farce for that ‘offside’ goal in todays Spurs-Liverpool game.

The PGMOL have released a statement admitting they got it wrong.

There seems to have been a few serious ones like this under Howard Webb’s watch across other games involving different clubs.

Should he take accountability for a failing body and resign?  

As a fan of the sport I do feel like issuing statements and banishing mignons for applying a strategy of ‘quicker’ decisions is not enough now.

I accept a level of bias in this view.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Gerrumonside ref

[RayCee]

1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

VAR was a farce for that ‘offside’ goal in todays Spurs-Liverpool game.

The PGMOL have released a statement admitting they got it wrong.

There seems to have been a few serious ones like this under Howard Webb’s watch across other games involving different clubs.

Should he take accountability for a failing body and resign?  

As a fan of the sport I do feel like issuing statements and banishing mignons for applying a strategy of ‘quicker’ decisions is not enough now.

I accept a level of bias in this view.

Refs are an easy target but I do believe the standard of officiating in RL is high despite the inevitable occasional mistake.

What seems to have happened in this game Football game is o another level. Is it bias or incompetence? Social media is hot with even many non-Liverpool fans aghast at what is going on with refs & VAR. Admitting wrong on a given mistake is one thing but the system repeatedly failing is quite another. Apologies become tiresome when nothing is done about the problem. I personally have lost all faith in the EPL and for now at least feel no desire to follow it. 

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

VAR was a farce for that ‘offside’ goal in todays Spurs-Liverpool game.

The PGMOL have released a statement admitting they got it wrong.

There seems to have been a few serious ones like this under Howard Webb’s watch across other games involving different clubs.

Should he take accountability for a failing body and resign?  

As a fan of the sport I do feel like issuing statements and banishing mignons for applying a strategy of ‘quicker’ decisions is not enough now.

I accept a level of bias in this view.

Firstly, there's no bias. Liverpool benefit from close calls at about the same right as all the other top half of the table teams - it appears to me.

And I thought the first red card was a legitimate red card even though I agree with the comments about presenting the freeze frame to the ref first. Still images don't usually tell you much.

But with the offside - called offside on the field so with no VAR it is offside - you have the system completely failing. Those in the ground and those watching live on TV were given the impression that there had been a VAR check but then it turns out that VAR did not intervene. Given that it is literally their only job and that looked close to the naked eye how can both VAR not intervene, but also how can graphics be put up to strongly imply a check has occurred.

There are far too many errors relative to the number of opportunities to make an error. Far, far worse than either rugby league or, as far as I can tell, most other football competitions with VAR.

[bobbruce]

55 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Firstly, there's no bias. Liverpool benefit from close calls at about the same right as all the other top half of the table teams - it appears to me.

And I thought the first red card was a legitimate red card even though I agree with the comments about presenting the freeze frame to the ref first. Still images don't usually tell you much.

But with the offside - called offside on the field so with no VAR it is offside - you have the system completely failing. Those in the ground and those watching live on TV were given the impression that there had been a VAR check but then it turns out that VAR did not intervene. Given that it is literally their only job and that looked close to the naked eye how can both VAR not intervene, but also how can graphics be put up to strongly imply a check has occurred.

There are far too many errors relative to the number of opportunities to make an error. Far, far worse than either rugby league or, as far as I can tell, most other football competitions with VAR.

It seems they did do a check but somehow thought the goal had been awarded on field. So then when they saw it was onside they just put the graphic up that said check complete. I think the question is at what point they realised they’d cocked up and if it was after Spurs had taken the free kick should they be allowed to stop the game and bring it back. 

[bobbruce]

Just now, bobbruce said:

It seems they did do a check but somehow thought the goal had been awarded on field. So then when they saw it was onside they just put the graphic up that said check complete. I think the question is at what point they realised they’d cocked up and if it was after Spurs had taken the free kick should they be allowed to stop the game and bring it back. 

Just to add I’ve no issues with either red card even though I don’t think Jotas first yellow should’ve been given (though he should’ve been booked for his tackle on the edge of the box anyway). The fact is he was on a yellow when he made the second tackle which was just stupid. 

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Firstly, there's no bias. Liverpool benefit from close calls at about the same right as all the other top half of the table teams - it appears to me.

And I thought the first red card was a legitimate red card even though I agree with the comments about presenting the freeze frame to the ref first. Still images don't usually tell you much.

But with the offside - called offside on the field so with no VAR it is offside - you have the system completely failing. Those in the ground and those watching live on TV were given the impression that there had been a VAR check but then it turns out that VAR did not intervene. Given that it is literally their only job and that looked close to the naked eye how can both VAR not intervene, but also how can graphics be put up to strongly imply a check has occurred.

There are far too many errors relative to the number of opportunities to make an error. Far, far worse than either rugby league or, as far as I can tell, most other football competitions with VAR.

By the way I think he’s talking about his own bias. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Firstly, there's no bias. Liverpool benefit from close calls at about the same right as all the other top half of the table teams - it appears to me.

And I thought the first red card was a legitimate red card even though I agree with the comments about presenting the freeze frame to the ref first. Still images don't usually tell you much.

But with the offside - called offside on the field so with no VAR it is offside - you have the system completely failing. Those in the ground and those watching live on TV were given the impression that there had been a VAR check but then it turns out that VAR did not intervene. Given that it is literally their only job and that looked close to the naked eye how can both VAR not intervene, but also how can graphics be put up to strongly imply a check has occurred.

There are far too many errors relative to the number of opportunities to make an error. Far, far worse than either rugby league or, as far as I can tell, most other football competitions with VAR.

@gingerjon; @RayCee; @bobbruce

Good points in the posts I have read, the bias I refer to was my own in being a Liverpool fan as Bob points out.

I know some Liverpool fans are very frustrated (and have a distrust of authority) - but I don’t think talk of conspiracy/corruption etc actually helps anyone unless there’s substantive proof of it.  It’s easily dismissed and distracts from what can be proved (I understand where it comes from though).

I agree with Bob’s view totally with regards yesterday’s red cards and the version of events regarding the actions/inaction of VAR for Diaz’s offside goal.

Cant help but feel that Howard Webb imposed a speeding up of VAR (responding to criticism) to the point now where critical decisions are not being reviewed in a proper fashion affecting everybody not just Liverpool.

Think now a system that can get an offside goal wrong in the manner it did yesterday and then ultimately blame its own rules concerning post VAR restarts is a farce.

 

[HawkMan]

 

[Man of Kent]

I don't think there's a conspiracy in play here but I do find it peculiar that officiating in English football is managed by a self-policing private monopoly (PGMOL).

If NRL or Super League officiating were done by a private monopoly of self-employed referees, people might smell a rat.

[DI Keith Fowler]

22 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I don't think there's a conspiracy in play here but I do find it peculiar that officiating in English football is managed by a self-policing private monopoly (PGMOL).

If NRL or Super League officiating were done by a private monopoly of self-employed referees, people might smell a rat.

I think this is the crux of it. The referees as a body get to mark their own homework, and when a mistake is made their primary response is to circle the wagons and cover for each other. 

There's been a number of #### ups that they've managed to explain away to some degree because there was a subjective element involved which gave a degree of plausible deniability. 

The problem with this incident is that it's to do with the one part of VAR that ought to be objective, there's no easy excuse they can fall back on here and we've subsequently got quite a convoluted and unsatisfying explanation from them. I look forward to the audio being released which backs up the PGMOL statements.

My gut feeling is they didn't bother checking it, then as play restarted they thought "hang on" and panicked. I've never seen them draw the lines as quickly as that decision was made, on tight ones you usually get to see them work it through, not here. It just doesn't make any sense otherwise, the PGMOL explanation especially, it's just the best they could come up with in the time that puts it down to more excusable human error rather than gross incompetence. 

[HawkMan]

That scientific theory about parallel universes, it must be true, and we've slipped into one,  it's the only possible explanation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66992764

[ivans82]

Repeating myself once again  ,  Cricket have the right idea with having a set number of "challenges" , how many you could have in football , and for what type of incidents is another matter ........the same could apply to most sports .

[Josef K]

Cheltenham Town losing at home to the Cod Army 0-1 at HT. If they don’t score tonight they will equal the records held by Coventry 1919-20 & Hartlepool 1992-93 who both went eleven games without scoring. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Great game down Norwood Park tonight as Beverley Town beat Worsbrough Bridge 2-1 despite having our captain sent off after just 5 seconds and missing a penalty in the 2nd half! What a win!

[bobbruce]

13 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I think this is the crux of it. The referees as a body get to mark their own homework, and when a mistake is made their primary response is to circle the wagons and cover for each other. 

There's been a number of #### ups that they've managed to explain away to some degree because there was a subjective element involved which gave a degree of plausible deniability. 

The problem with this incident is that it's to do with the one part of VAR that ought to be objective, there's no easy excuse they can fall back on here and we've subsequently got quite a convoluted and unsatisfying explanation from them. I look forward to the audio being released which backs up the PGMOL statements.

My gut feeling is they didn't bother checking it, then as play restarted they thought "hang on" and panicked. I've never seen them draw the lines as quickly as that decision was made, on tight ones you usually get to see them work it through, not here. It just doesn't make any sense otherwise, the PGMOL explanation especially, it's just the best they could come up with in the time that puts it down to more excusable human error rather than gross incompetence. 

They checked it and came to the decision that the Liverpool player was onside. Unfortunately they thought the the goal had been given on field so just said check complete. Which because the linesman had flagged meant he was given as offside listening to the audio backs this up and also makes it even more embarrassing for the people involved. 

[HawkMan]

Incredible Messi Mania.

Chicago Fire have sold 61,000 tickets for Inter Miami match, which is Incredible in itself,  but fear because Messi is injured and might not play some fans might change their mind. So they're offering $250 off 2024 season tickets for any purchaser of a single game ticket ( non ST) if they turn up.

Edited October 4, 2023 by HawkMan

[DI Keith Fowler]

11 hours ago, bobbruce said:

They checked it and came to the decision that the Liverpool player was onside. Unfortunately they thought the the goal had been given on field so just said check complete. Which because the linesman had flagged meant he was given as offside listening to the audio backs this up and also makes it even more embarrassing for the people involved. 

Thank god the PGMOL aren't in charge of air traffic control, the standard of communication is atrocious.

I'm still not convinced by this idea that they thought he was onside but were confused about the on field decision. To me it reads like England is fully aware of the on field decision is offside, then somehow also comes to a conclusion of offside.

Quote

"VAR: Check complete, check complete. That's fine, perfect (showing Diaz is clearly onside). Off."

That just does not read to me like he thinks the on field decision is incorrect (fine, perfect) or that the goal is on side (off). 

 

Quote

 

Replay operator: Wait, wait, wait, wait. The on-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this?

Assistant VAR: Yeah

Replay operator: Are you happy with this?

Assistant VAR: Offside goal yeah. That's wrong Daz.

VAR: What?

Replay operator: On-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this image? Yeah it's onside. The image that we gave them is onside.

Assistant VAR: He's played him. He's gone offside.

VAR: Oh [expletive]

 

 

I don't think he realises at all that the goal should stand until the replay operator forces the issue that they've produced an image that shows onside, also the assistant sounds as thick as mince and doesn't have a clue what's going on. He's watched the game kick off in this period but doesn't act until the replay operator says anything. Even if he thought the on field decision was offside he knows what his decision is!

EDIT: Also seen it pointed out if they thought it was a goal they should have then gone back to the start of the attacking phase to make sure there is nothing in the build up (i.e. handball, foul throw, questionable coming together), the linesman even prompts them by saying "holding, holding" as he wants them to check Salah in the build up. They don't do this because they've decided to not give the goal already so don't need to. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by DI Keith Fowler

[HawkMan]

UK and Ireland guaranteed to be Euro 2028 hosts as Turkey pull out.

UEFA can't allow 5 nations to pre qualify as hosts, so negotiating about what happens should be interesting. Most likely is all 5 be asked to qualify,  and reserve places available for up to 2 failing to get through.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67003581

[The Hallucinating Goose]

On 03/10/2023 at 22:33, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Great game down Norwood Park tonight as Beverley Town beat Worsbrough Bridge 2-1 despite having our captain sent off after just 5 seconds and missing a penalty in the 2nd half! What a win!

The league have confirmed that the sending off I refer to was after just 15 seconds and is thought to be the fastest sending off in NCEL history!

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

On 03/10/2023 at 22:33, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Great game down Norwood Park tonight as Beverley Town beat Worsbrough Bridge 2-1 despite having our captain sent off after just 5 seconds and missing a penalty in the 2nd half! What a win!

How do you get sent off after 5 seconds?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

7 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

The league have confirmed that the sending off I refer to was after just 15 seconds and is thought to be the fastest sending off in NCEL history!

How do you get sent off after 15 seconds?

[The Hallucinating Goose]

36 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

How do you get sent off after 5 seconds?

 

35 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

How do you get sent off after 15 seconds?

I thought the actual incident was after about 5 seconds but I guess another 10 seconds elapsed before the ref pulled his card out. 

Basically, we (Bev Town) kicked off by sending the ball back towards our keeper. The keeper had come right out past the edge of his box though and the Worsborough striker ran straight through and got onto the ball and was basically faced with an open goal cos the keeper was in such an awkward position, so our central defender grabbed hold of the strikers arm and dragged him to the ground and was sent off because he was last man. 

Kick off, striker intercepts kick off, is dragged to ground. Simple really. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

37 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

 

I thought the actual incident was after about 5 seconds but I guess another 10 seconds elapsed before the ref pulled his card out. 

Basically, we (Bev Town) kicked off by sending the ball back towards our keeper. The keeper had come right out past the edge of his box though and the Worsborough striker ran straight through and got onto the ball and was basically faced with an open goal cos the keeper was in such an awkward position, so our central defender grabbed hold of the strikers arm and dragged him to the ground and was sent off because he was last man. 

Kick off, striker intercepts kick off, is dragged to ground. Simple really. 

The dirty get

Edited October 7, 2023 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[The Hallucinating Goose]

43 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

The dirty get

Probably ended up saving a goal and winning us the game though! We play dirty in East Yorkshire!