Bernard Gausch & Marc Palanques create opposition to FFR XIII

[Scubby]

I hope Toulouse and Catalans start to develop a cordial but edgy rivalry. Historically, that has always led to great occasions on the field when paths do cross.

[Rascal Bongo Stork]

What on earth has it got to do with Catalans what TO do?If the 3 'Cathars' clubs have the backing to enter a joint venture into L1 then theyre more than welcome to do so but so are Toulouse

[Gambass]

I've heard that the potential new administration is against Toulouse playing in the British system? Surely they can see that such integration is essential to raising their standard to a fully pro club similar to Catalans? I hope this isn't a case of Guasch trying to limit the development of Toulouse to give himself more influence with the federation.

 

That IF you believe they can make to SL, something I and many others are very doubtfull of.  A perennial championship side is not going to help anyone.

 

Obviously, if we had a truly integrated european system with a well defined and fair pathway to Sl for french teams, we wouldn't have this discussion. The 'Elite" would have been downgraded to non elite statut, and any moaner (namely Carcassonne) would have been asked to work their way to SL or to shut up.

[Manfred Mann]

I've heard that the potential new administration is against Toulouse playing in the British system? Surely they can see that such integration is essential to raising their standard to a fully pro club similar to Catalans? I hope this isn't a case of Guasch trying to limit the development of Toulouse to give himself more influence with the federation.

 

 

Bernard Guasch has said many times in the past that Catalans needs Toulouse in Super League.

 

From what I have been told by someone connected to the French game and Catalans, the issue for the opposition group is of the FFRXIII President Zalduendo putting all his eggs in the Toulouse basket and neglecting the rest of the French game,  He allegedly hasn't looked after the various French clubs and organisations. Money is scarce. The critics want the imbalance of effort to be corrected.  But according to my source Toulouse's attempt to play its way into Super League is not opposed.

[kiwis 13 6]

A European structure for the game needs to be developed that takes into account French Elite 1 & 2 with UK championships feeding into super league, I have posted a potential model in trezie tournoi thread. 

 

Sponsorship is crucial FFR13 sponsorship income of $120,000 Euro is a very poor effort. Charging Elite 1 & 2 large fees to enter the Elites and fund the FFR13 is holding the game back. National team needs work players need to be paid at least the equivalent of an average weekly wage for the appearance in a test match against top opposition or in major tournaments, National side needs better coaching, National side needs sponsorship and a merchandise deal.

 

Hope Toulouse 20 year quest for Super League entry isnt affected by any new FFR13 management as anything other than a slow and steady improvement in Elite Standards will take years of hard work to see, unless a minor miracle takes place...

[The Parksider]

Has the oracle that is Sadler mentioned this though, because if not it can't be true?

Although as Hvy Wg rightly points out you can't just stick pins in a map at cities you want a team, there needs to be a bit more substance to it.

 

There's far far more substance to Sadler's views than yours.

 

Nice piece of repeating someone else stating the obvious, you need to start an RL magazine to tell us all what we already know by repeating other people's views.

[JonM]

 

Hope Toulouse 20 year quest for Super League entry isnt affected by any new FFR13 management as anything other than a slow and steady improvement in Elite Standards will take years of hard work to see, unless a minor miracle takes place...

 

Anything other than a slow and steady year-on-year fall in the number of clubs and the standard at Elite level would be a good outcome. There's been a few bright spots this year, with Catalan & Toulouse doing well and the Catalan u-19s performances, but hard to feel positive about the Elite & below.

[goldcoaster]

Like it or not, France's future is in the British system - much like NZ has been in the Aussie system. If they can eventually get 3 teams in SL (Catalans, Toulouse & Aude/ Cathars) backed by cost-effective regional and junior leagues in France (as opposed to an expensive & poor-quality Elite league), then that is the path to success and France taking its rightful place in the game's top-4 nations.

[Yakstorm]

Out of curiosity how big of a budget difference is there between most Elite 1 clubs and Elite 2?

ie. If the new group was to fast track Montpelier and Lyon, how much in funding would they need to find to give those clubs a chance of competing in some way?

[barnyia]

The federation doesn't give funding the clubs pay the federation to participate,

[nadera78]

When Carlos Zalduendo was running Toulouse everyone thought he was a good guy doing a good job. When he took over at the FFR13 we all thought it was a good move, but it seems things haven't worked out so well. But then, from memory, they didn't work out so well under the previous 2 or 3 leaders either. Perhaps there's a bigger issue here than simply who sits at the top of the organisation? It certainly seems that way from the outside.

[kiwis 13 6]

Like it or not, France's future is in the British system - much like NZ has been in the Aussie system. If they can eventually get 3 teams in SL (Catalans, Toulouse & Aude/ Cathars) backed by cost-effective regional and junior leagues in France (as opposed to an expensive & poor-quality Elite league), then that is the path to success and France taking its rightful place in the game's top-4 nations.

While that may be true for french sides at fully professional level of super league. At semi pro level below that it would be idiotic to throw away 80+ years of history if that is what you are suggesting?. A new FFR13 regime could have an instance positive impact at Elite level if there plans are implemented to increase sponsorship, reduce Elite sides registration fees, Introduce a salary cap for Elite 

[audois]

Out of curiosity how big of a budget difference is there between most Elite 1 clubs and Elite 2?

ie. If the new group was to fast track Montpelier and Lyon, how much in funding would they need to find to give those clubs a chance of competing in some way?

 

I think there is a big difference. Carcassonne may be what 3 or 4 times that of Elite 1 basement club Villeneuve €700,000 as against €200,000 at a push. Those with the bigger budgets can spend on overseas recruits like ASC with half a dozen. If you went with just local players Avignon and Albi could well be challengers - there U20s the best in France at the moment. I think at Elite 2 level vast differences say between the Catalans of Baho €200,000 and Villegailhenc barely €80,000. The latter the reserve side of the ASC running just one side whereas the Catalans an impressive set-up with school of rugby plus age group sides at U15,U17 and U20s.

 

The new project does mention a salary cap and reference to overseas players - one of the major changes in the last few years is the drop in the total number of overseas players operating at Elite 1/2 levels. The Dragons reserve side won the Lord Derby Cup at the weekend with a young all French line-up - the first time such a scenario in decades. Could the Federation look at put a cap at say €300,000 to enable the likes of Lyon and Montpellier to move up. The bigger clubs then could invest more in community development with satellite clubs and coach education. If the game has some spare euros target U15s and U17s growth.

[Oxford]

I think there is a big difference. Carcassonne may be what 3 or 4 times that of Elite 1 basement club Villeneuve €700,000 as against €200,000 at a push. Those with the bigger budgets can spend on overseas recruits like ASC with half a dozen. If you went with just local players Avignon and Albi could well be challengers - there U20s the best in France at the moment. I think at Elite 2 level vast differences say between the Catalans of Baho €200,000 and Villegailhenc barely €80,000. The latter the reserve side of the ASC running just one side whereas the Catalans an impressive set-up with school of rugby plus age group sides at U15,U17 and U20s.

 

The new project does mention a salary cap and reference to overseas players - one of the major changes in the last few years is the drop in the total number of overseas players operating at Elite 1/2 levels. The Dragons reserve side won the Lord Derby Cup at the weekend with a young all French line-up - the first time such a scenario in decades. Could the Federation look at put a cap at say €300,000 to enable the likes of Lyon and Montpellier to move up. The bigger clubs then could invest more in community development with satellite clubs and coach education. If the game has some spare euros target U15sn and U17s growth.

Hello Audois,

I used to coach much younger children in Carca, has all that good work disappeared? Which bit of the town do you live in(area not address obviously!)?

[JM2010]

Like it or not, France's future is in the British system - much like NZ has been in the Aussie system. If they can eventually get 3 teams in SL (Catalans, Toulouse & Aude/ Cathars) backed by cost-effective regional and junior leagues in France (as opposed to an expensive & poor-quality Elite league), then that is the path to success and France taking its rightful place in the game's top-4 nations.

I think the French should be included in the British system. This could be either aligning Elite 1 with Championship 1 or letting teams enter at Championship 1 level like Toulouse and having Elite 1 and 2 for the rest of the French teams and Catalan, Toulouse reserves and any other team that enters the British system.

[kiwis 13 6]

Well whatever we think, its all up to people in France, it really would be good to see some positive growth for the sport in France.

[Fabou]

Like it or not, France's future is in the British system - much like NZ has been in the Aussie system. If they can eventually get 3 teams in SL (Catalans, Toulouse & Aude/ Cathars) backed by cost-effective regional and junior leagues in France (as opposed to an expensive & poor-quality Elite league), then that is the path to success and France taking its rightful place in the game's top-4 nations.

no. France's future is in France. Agree to say that 3 french teams in SL would be a great thing (BUT Toulouse has to face the championship first, so would have to the Cathares, and that is NOT done). In the same time, the FFRXIII has to work hard to create a competition that will aim to be as "good" as the SL. So the SL is a great option/bonus/necessity but the most important is to grow rugby league internaly. like it or not.

[Fabou]

I think the French should be included in the British system. This could be either aligning Elite 1 with Championship 1 or letting teams enter at Championship 1 level like Toulouse and having Elite 1 and 2 for the rest of the French teams and Catalan, Toulouse reserves and any other team that enters the British system.

? 

non sense. 

[JM2010]

?

non sense.

Care to elaborate?

[Hvy wg]

no. France's future is in France. Agree to say that 3 french teams in SL would be a great thing (BUT Toulouse has to face the championship first, so would have to the Cathares, and that is NOT done). In the same time, the FFRXIII has to work hard to create a competition that will aim to be as "good" as the SL. So the SL is a great option/bonus/necessity but the most important is to grow rugby league internaly. like it or not.

How could we?

Football dominates the north, Union dominates most of the south. Where are we going to create teams that are SL level? Where will the money come from? Where will the players come from? 

 

At the moment we have Catalans, Toulouse and Cathares. Those 3 teams can have a brilliant future in SL. Maybe Avignon could go up but that would need massive money that they're probably not going to make anytime soon. 

In our situation, what is important is :

1. Growing back small clubs in heartland areas (to name two, Saint-Gaudens and Pia)

2. Growing back the lower league , to expand the player pool

3. Send the bigger teams (named above) in England, to try to make their way into a professionnal setting. More pro teams with media coverage means exposure, exposure means a bigger player pool in order to feed the lower league

 

The problem right now is that Zalduendo put all of his eggs in the Toulouse basket. We're losing countless small clubs and we have very few junior players.

France's future is one hand into British system and the other one into France's one

[Fabou]

Care to elaborate?

the french in the english system. this is simply not possible. it is like you propose to integrate the NSW in Queensland. 

dont know where you are from, but not english neither french.

france RL needs the English RL and to a lower level, english RL needs French RL. 3 frnech teams in the SL would be great for everybody. BUT the most important is that the FFRXIII focus on developping a great French competition (which means that it is important that Toulouse Perpignan and Carcassonne keep to have a top level RL team in a french competition)

[Hvy wg]

the french in the english system. this is simply not possible. it is like you propose to integrate the NSW in Queensland. 

dont know where you are from, but not english neither french.

france RL needs the English RL and to a lower level, english RL needs French RL. 3 frnech teams in the SL would be great for everybody. BUT the most important is that the FFRXIII focus on developping a great French competition (which means that it is important that Toulouse Perpignan and Carcassonne keep to have a top level RL team in a french competition)

I agree but the thing is, the top Elite 1 teams are really good teams as Toulouse proved last week. 

The lower Elite 1 teams aren't that good, unfortunately. If we want to expand Elite 1, we need to decrease the level of the competition. 

[JM2010]

the french in the english system. this is simply not possible. it is like you propose to integrate the NSW in Queensland.

dont know where you are from, but not english neither french.

france RL needs the English RL and to a lower level, english RL needs French RL. 3 frnech teams in the SL would be great for everybody. BUT the most important is that the FFRXIII focus on developping a great French competition (which means that it is important that Toulouse Perpignan and Carcassonne keep to have a top level RL team in a french competition)

In an ideal world the French will have a top level domestic competition that can compete with SL. Unfortunately that isn't gonna happen anytime soon so the next best option for now would be to expose the top clubs to the English teams until and build from there. If a stage comes where there are enough teams of a high standard then they could create a French league to run alongside SL. Not sure why my nationality is an issue but I'm a Yorkshireman

[Fabou]

How could we?

Football dominates the north, Union dominates most of the south. Where are we going to create teams that are SL level? Where will the money come from? Where will the players come from? 

 

At the moment we have Catalans, Toulouse and Cathares. Those 3 teams can have a brilliant future in SL. Maybe Avignon could go up but that would need massive money that they're probably not going to make anytime soon. 

In our situation, what is important is :

1. Growing back small clubs in heartland areas (to name two, Saint-Gaudens and Pia)

2. Growing back the lower league , to expand the player pool

3. Send the bigger teams (named above) in England, to try to make their way into a professionnal setting. More pro teams with media coverage means exposure, exposure means a bigger player pool in order to feed the lower league

 

The problem right now is that Zalduendo put all of his eggs in the Toulouse basket. We're losing countless small clubs and we have very few junior players.

France's future is one hand into British system and the other one into France's one

agreed with your conclusion. but what do you mean by Zalduendo put all of his eggs inthe toulouse basket? can you explain me what he did for Toulouse? Toulouse in League One is the wish from The TOXIII owner who is Sarrazin. Zalduendo is no longer a decision maker in this club since he left 3 years ago. where is Zalduendo include in the process of the league one? not that i want to defend Zalduendo, i am still trying to understand what was supposed to be his "basket" ahah... 

[Hvy wg]

In an ideal world the French will have a top level domestic competition that can compete with SL. Unfortunately that isn't gonna happen anytime soon so the next best option for now would be to expose the top clubs to the English teams until and build from there. If a stage comes where there are enough teams of a high standard then they could create a French league to run alongside SL. Not sure why my nationality is an issue but I'm a Yorkshireman

That is not going to happen. The biggest cities in France are pro-Football and now Union is coming into play (Montpellier, Lyon, Bordeaux). 

We have Perpignan, Avignon, the Cathares clubs and Toulouse as main team and that is likely never going to change.