Gamesmanship creeping into the sport ?

[bobbruce]

50 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Indeed , if we ( Leigh ) had done similar at Perpignan , we'd have finished 10th and had the extra home fixture 

However I do hope we dont start to see it happening regularily

It's been happening for years Leeds were masters at it. Give a penalty away rather than allow a quick ptb and the have faith your defense can handle the repeat sets. 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

It's been happening for years Leeds were masters at it. Give a penalty away rather than allow a quick ptb and the have faith your defense can handle the repeat sets. 

Yes but yesterday it was completely different , with 40 seconds left there wasnt time for any repeat sets , there was no gain for Leigh , the penalties used up all the available time 

[sentoffagain2]

5 hours ago, redjonn said:

Some of the behaviours are as said to get air back in the lungs...  maybe just maybe some games are just too fast and constant motion which I think the sport has aimed for... but maybe just maybe the game does need to be a little slower...

The game would be slower if we had proper contested scrums, and the backs would have more space to play.

[Tongs ya bas]

5 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

The game would be slower if we had proper contested scrums, and the backs would have more space to play.

there would be more thuggery, more penalties, more time wasted, and more untidy possession from the scrum. there aren't many scrums in a game anyway. the backs get more space to play with scrums as they are.

[Tongs ya bas]

14 hours ago, Futtocks said:

My initial response wasn't aimed solely at you, but everyone who holds the views that 1.everything was better in the past and 2.it is only "other" clubs who do it, and never our own. See pretty much every match thread on this site for evidence of that.

Remember, even nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be.

rubbish. i remember when rugby league was rugby league. Forrads was forrads and scrums was scrums. it were a man's game then oh aye. refs and 'them' have allus picked on us it's common knowledge and a known fact.

[DKL79]

Nobody heard of the NRL shot clock? An idea taken from the NFL. It applies at least to goal line dropouts and scrums and IMO is a good idea to stop the nonsense.

[jpmc]

I have no problem at all about how hkr killed the game off, in fact well done to them for having clear enough minds to think about it under extreme pressure. 

That said there's been plenty other things that have happened in games that suggest the sport is becoming more like football, feigning injuries being the main one 

[Oxford]

14 hours ago, redjonn said:

Some of the behaviours are as said to get air back in the lungs...  maybe just maybe some games are just too fast and constant motion which I think the sport has aimed for... but maybe just maybe the game does need to be a little slower...

Already there for you if you want ..... it's called rugby union!

And you're unlikely to miss anything if you go to the toilet!

Win, Win!

[DavidM]

1 hour ago, DKL79 said:

Nobody heard of the NRL shot clock? An idea taken from the NFL. It applies at least to goal line dropouts and scrums and IMO is a good idea to stop the nonsense.

Yes by and large a good idea , apart from when everyone is standing there ready and looking at the clock tick down !

[Oxford]

6 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Yes by and large a good idea , apart from when everyone is standing there ready and looking at the clock tick down !

Gamesmanship at it's worst sustained by the rules and guaranteed to anger many TGG fans spending their time searching for an axe to grind!

[RP London]

19 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Yes by and large a good idea , apart from when everyone is standing there ready and looking at the clock tick down !

but its fair for both sides not a case of who is better at time wasting or hiding the ball.. 

problem then comes with feigning injury/cramp as the ref has a duty of care to the player down.. if you want to you can bend any law.. just need a ref not to be conned.

[Markski58]

It is definitely on the increase. As the Leigh Hull KR game has been mentioned. The lying on at the ruck was so deliberate - there was absolutely no attempt to move by the KT players until they were actually penalised. A more experienced and competent referee would have sent the second offender to the bin - instead with 6 seconds left he put them on a team warning following the fourth penalty.

Further he was also conned by KR players going down with "cramp" - mmmm - he stopped the game twice and did not stop the clock. He even stopped the game (and not the clock) when a player decided to change his shorts on the pitch.

[dkw]

39 minutes ago, Markski58 said:

It is definitely on the increase. As the Leigh Hull KR game has been mentioned. The lying on at the ruck was so deliberate - there was absolutely no attempt to move by the KT players until they were actually penalised. A more experienced and competent referee would have sent the second offender to the bin - instead with 6 seconds left he put them on a team warning following the fourth penalty.

Further he was also conned by KR players going down with "cramp" - mmmm - he stopped the game twice and did not stop the clock. He even stopped the game (and not the clock) when a player decided to change his shorts on the pitch.

This has gone on in RL for as long as I remember, its maybe just highlighted more as its on TV for all to see now. Leigh themselves did it at Derwent Park a few years ago when we had them on the rack, players injured all over the place, trainers coming on the pitch every 20 seconds etc. All teams do it, all teams have done it and all teams will continue to do it.

[GUBRATS]

13 minutes ago, dkw said:

This has gone on in RL for as long as I remember, its maybe just highlighted more as its on TV for all to see now. Leigh themselves did it at Derwent Park a few years ago when we had them on the rack, players injured all over the place, trainers coming on the pitch every 20 seconds etc. All teams do it, all teams have done it and all teams will continue to do it.

This was different dkw , there was no pretence of injury , it was cynical ( but not outside the rules ) , the question is , as I posed in the OP , ' new ' ways of gamesmanship ? Do we want it in the sport ? 

Personally I dont , no matter who is doing it 

[dkw]

None of what you mentioned is new though, its gone on for years.

[GUBRATS]

13 minutes ago, dkw said:

None of what you mentioned is new though, its gone on for years.

Did you watch the game ? , I havent seen players lying on until a penalty was given twice in the last 40 seconds as I witnessed on saturday , not suggesting they broke any rules , they didnt 

Similarily I dont recall defenders deliberatly being pushed into a full back or winger catching a ball ( something highly dangerous given the potential for head injuries ) in 40 odd years of watching the game 

Either way , if you feel there isnt an issue then fine , youve made your point 

[dkw]

If you haven't seen any of that in a game in the past 40 years then you've been watching games with your head up your arris.

[ivans82]

As a previous poster has said the rules are there to cover most things , it is up to the ref to police them . I would prefer the ref to have a bit of leeway to allow the game to flow like penalising obvious gamesmanship , i would prefer the ref to take a team back an extra yard or two if they were persistently offside rather than give a load of penalties , but he would probably be marked down by the assessor .What does amaze me though is refs in both rugby league and soccer being conned by the same tricks week in and week out , do they never watch a video of a match they have refereed and learn from it ?

[GUBRATS]

18 minutes ago, dkw said:

If you haven't seen any of that in a game in the past 40 years then you've been watching games with your head up your arris.

Maybe I have , not the 1 st time youve suggested it , anyway , thanks for you input 

[Trojan]

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

Already there for you if you want ..... it's called rugby union!

And you're unlikely to miss anything if you go to the toilet!

Win, Win!

TBH I was wondering what a game of RL that went back to the old rules would look like.  Five metre gap, striking at the PTB, competitive scrums.  Trouble would be finding any forwards who could srummage properly.  But perhaps when Union finally see the light and reduce their team numbers to 13 we'll have a chance to see something that resembles the game of RL as played in the late fifties and early sixties when I first started following it.  The "phases" already are already very reminescent of unlimited tackle RL:.  It's only a short step....

[HKRBob]

42 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Maybe I have , not the 1 st time youve suggested it , anyway , thanks for you input 

It's something that is prevalent in the NRL and I have seen it plenty of times (to a lesser degree) in the UK. Not just in the last minute of a game, but basically whenever a team is more than a penalty up and the clock is running down. 

I think it was 2 penalties in the last 40 seconds, with the ref putting the second on a team warning? I think the ref cracked down as hard as he could, as team warnings normally come after 3 or 4 similar instances.

Last season in the MPG we were presented with the same opportunity and never took it. It cost the club a million quid and will cost significantly more if we don't regain promotion. If I'm honest I'm much happier with how Saturday panned out and am unapologetic about it.

 

 

[DavidM]

1 hour ago, ivans82 said:

As a previous poster has said the rules are there to cover most things , it is up to the ref to police them . I would prefer the ref to have a bit of leeway to allow the game to flow like penalising obvious gamesmanship , i would prefer the ref to take a team back an extra yard or two if they were persistently offside rather than give a load of penalties , but he would probably be marked down by the assessor .What does amaze me though is refs in both rugby league and soccer being conned by the same tricks week in and week out , do they never watch a video of a match they have refereed and learn from it ?

Yes good points 

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, Trojan said:

TBH I was wondering what a game of RL that went back to the old rules would look like.  Five metre gap, striking at the PTB, competitive scrums.  Trouble would be finding any forwards who could srummage properly.  But perhaps when Union finally see the light and reduce their team numbers to 13 we'll have a chance to see something that resembles the game of RL as played in the late fifties and early sixties when I first started following it.  The "phases" already are already very reminescent of unlimited tackle RL:.  It's only a short step....

I think it would look great and seem like a breath of fresh air to some of us oldies but I think it would frustrate the hell out of us as well because it doesn't and won't provide what we've become used to over the period of the modern game.

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, HKRBob said:

It's something that is prevalent in the NRL and I have seen it plenty of times (to a lesser degree) in the UK. Not just in the last minute of a game, but basically whenever a team is more than a penalty up and the clock is running down. 

I think it was 2 penalties in the last 40 seconds, with the ref putting the second on a team warning? I think the ref cracked down as hard as he could, as team warnings normally come after 3 or 4 similar instances.

Last season in the MPG we were presented with the same opportunity and never took it. It cost the club a million quid and will cost significantly more if we don't regain promotion. If I'm honest I'm much happier with how Saturday panned out and am unapologetic about it.

 

 

And neither should you be Bob , no rules were broken , however do we really want to see it being used as a tactic in finals and costing clubs futures as the opposite did yours ? 

No more ' Wide to Wests ' or any of the other many final play trys we have witnessed 

Again Im not talking about slowing the game down during the game , Im talking  about final minute ' cheating ' , there was no punishment that could benifit Leigh , certainly a team warning with 8 seconds left wont be a deterent to others using this in the future 

[GaryO]

19 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

The game would be slower if we had proper contested scrums, and the backs would have more space to play.

What some are missing and say this is not the way we shoud go, saying that the backs get space anyway, are not watching the same game as I am, if there were contested scrums then all the forwards would have to be involved in them, not pulling them out of the pack to act as defenders, then it would be backs against backs, but that would never do, would it!