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Man of Kent

Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

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Just received this email

"Hi,

 

We have recently tried getting into contact with you in regards to the Lions Triple Header on  November 2nd at Eden Park in Auckland.

Our promoter has decided to close off the South Stand and therefore have reallocated your seats at no extra cost to you.

You should have already received your new tickets the same method you chose for your original tickets. Please only take your re-issued tickets to the venue as your original tickets will not gain you entry.

Please note: If you have collected your tickets from an agency you will either need to collect your new tickets again or collect them at the box office before the match."

Doesn't bode well for a good crowd

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What did people expect? This whole concept has been a disaster from the very moment Nigel Wood pulled it out over a beer with a few old timers. It was always going to turn out this way.

 


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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The worst part about it is that it will be a nail in the coffin for other England tests down under. We’ll literally only be playing if teams want to visit the UK

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Just now, DoubleD said:

The worst part about it is that it will be a nail in the coffin for other England tests down under. We’ll literally only be playing if teams want to visit the UK

Unfortunately this is spot on, and the point I have been making. Nobody should take an ounce of pleasure in this.

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18 hours ago, Gibbo said:

What do you think the reasons are Dave.

New Zealand traditionally do not get great crowds, the other games semi final at a similar time will not help.

What other reasons do you think?

 

The fact that NZ dont traditionally get big crowds is the main issue here. This has always seen the NZ element as a bolt on pretty much to an Oz tour while we were already down there. The last time we did this was 1996 and we had to send people home late on to save costs. And that was with Maurice Lyndsay running it, not Nigel Wood.

But for tomorrow's game for example it is just a random game, with political issues in the build up.

I'm frustrated with the lack of an England RL team, but I was thinking, would it have made a difference to me if it had been England playing this, the answer is no. The schedule is boring and uninspiring. We arent really playing for anything.

Now had this been an older style GB tour, starting with PNG, then midweek games in Oz, plus an Ashes series, finishing off with Tonga and NZ then I suspect the interest would have been far greater, and the Briitish following would have been greater, including expats. 

As it is, it is all rather meh.

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

The fact that NZ dont traditionally get big crowds is the main issue here. This has always seen the NZ element as a bolt on pretty much to an Oz tour while we were already down there. The last time we did this was 1996 and we had to send people home late on to save costs. And that was with Maurice Lyndsay running it, not Nigel Wood.

But for tomorrow's game for example it is just a random game, with political issues in the build up.

I'm frustrated with the lack of an England RL team, but I was thinking, would it have made a difference to me if it had been England playing this, the answer is no. The schedule is boring and uninspiring. We arent really playing for anything.

Now had this been an older style GB tour, starting with PNG, then midweek games in Oz, plus an Ashes series, finishing off with Tonga and NZ then I suspect the interest would have been far greater, and the Briitish following would have been greater, including expats. 

As it is, it is all rather meh.

I don’t fully subscribe to this. I understand what you’re saying but they’re test matches all the same. Do yawnion fans not turn out for Autumn internationals because they don’t mean anything? 

If this was the reverse playing in England, I would certainly attend and I’m sure a lot more to boot. The real concern is that NZRL seems even less capable of marketing the international game than RFL. In fact it could be argued that the RFL is the best body at marketing and hosting international games which is even more worrying 

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Never mind the pathetic crowd, THE SHIRT IS BACK.

A complete fiasco, which almost anyone could have predicted given the lack of demand for it in the first place. 

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5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Do we know anything about the commercial arrangements for this tour? I cannot imagine the RFL would have agreed to Eden Park without the promoter shouldering the risk.

It is a complete mess. The promoters may argue the IRL or NRL are also responsible for not providing an official Tongan test side for the games. It is going to get messy.

You are going to have some fun counting seats over the next few weeks mate! ? 

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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Never mind the pathetic crowd, THE SHIRT IS BACK.

A complete fiasco, which almost anyone could have predicted given the lack of demand for it in the first place. 

If nothing else, the shirt sales will have earned some revenue for the RFL. £50 a pop should lessen the pain!

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2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It is a complete mess. The promoters may argue the IRL or NRL are also responsible for not providing an official Tongan test side for the games. It is going to get messy.

You are going to have some fun counting seats over the next few weeks mate! ? 

Stick to union ?

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37 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I don’t fully subscribe to this. I understand what you’re saying but they’re test matches all the same. Do yawnion fans not turn out for Autumn internationals because they don’t mean anything? 

If this was the reverse playing in England, I would certainly attend and I’m sure a lot more to boot. The real concern is that NZRL seems even less capable of marketing the international game than RFL. In fact it could be argued that the RFL is the best body at marketing and hosting international games which is even more worrying 

The problem is that we haven't built up a following for these random tours. It is pretty much an unprecedented tour for us. Four Tests is an odd schedule. 

We had Lions tours as I described, or we had a worthwhile 4N. This falls under neither of those. So it automatically becomes less attractive than either of those options. 

People will act surprised when the crowds are poor in New Zealand, when history has told us this will be the case, even when we have been on extended tours, which act as marketing and promotion for the games. 

Now I am on board with us sticking with this kind of thing and building into a strong Autumn international season like Union does, but we had done that with the 4N, and decided to scrap it. We could have done it with the Confed Cup and we bottled it.

There is no evidence that this schedule would ever deliver decent crowds. Tomorrow's game is purely based on Tonga getting some good results and a great following 2 years ago in the World Cup. But that market isn't a well-established and reliable one.

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11 minutes ago, Abicus said:

Duco Events are the promoter for the GB Lions tour. https://www.ducoevents.com/

They were the same promoter for the Auckland NRL 9's for a those few years there.

Will be very interesting to see what kind of relationship they have with the NZRl/RFL.

It’ll be short lived that’s for sure!

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54 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

Now I am on board with us sticking with this kind of thing and building into a strong Autumn international season like Union does, but we had done that with the 4N, and decided to scrap it. We could have done it with the Confed Cup and we bottled it.

.

Totally agree with this.. 4 nations was great

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4 hours ago, Dave T said:

The fact that NZ dont traditionally get big crowds is the main issue here. This has always seen the NZ element as a bolt on pretty much to an Oz tour while we were already down there. The last time we did this was 1996 and we had to send people home late on to save costs. And that was with Maurice Lyndsay running it, not Nigel Wood.

But for tomorrow's game for example it is just a random game, with political issues in the build up.

I'm frustrated with the lack of an England RL team, but I was thinking, would it have made a difference to me if it had been England playing this, the answer is no. The schedule is boring and uninspiring. We arent really playing for anything.

Now had this been an older style GB tour, starting with PNG, then midweek games in Oz, plus an Ashes series, finishing off with Tonga and NZ then I suspect the interest would have been far greater, and the Briitish following would have been greater, including expats. 

As it is, it is all rather meh.

Thanks for the reply Dave.

As many have said from way back, this Tour will bankrupt the game

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16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The problem with the international game, and this tour especially, is that it is completely devoid of context.

The lions havent toured in 23 years. They havent played in 13 years. This is just a random collection of games. Why should i care if they win or lose? why should anyone care enough to spend thousands going?

The 9s WC was a concept that hadnt been played in 2 years and hadnt ever been played internationally, the teams were invited seemingly at random, one not even a proper national side. Why does it matter who wins?

The international game is random and sporadic and has no semblance of overarching narrative. 

England will have played no competitive games and 6 series matches, between the 2017 WC and the 2021 WC. 
Between the 2018 WC and the 2022 WC England football team will play 10-12 nations league games, 8 European qualifiers, a European cup,  8-10 World Cup qualifiers. Plus friendlies. 

What we need is regular international competition in all forms of the game, to build a narrative around it. We need regular, read yearly, competition in the NH between NH nations, we need regular games between the SH sides. We need regular games between the NH sides and SH sides. We need to be player 8-10 internationals per year. minimum. 

Until we do that we will continue to have poor attendances and struggle to sell. People can't build an affiliation with teams they see play every couple of years. 

This is especially true for the other nations. How can ireland or wales learn to hate the English and love their team when they hardly ever play, and never in those nations. 

Take two of your pills Scotchy and slow down.

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4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

If nothing else, the shirt sales will have earned some revenue for the RFL. £50 a pop should lessen the pain!

Do me a favour! About 10 people will pay full whack, the rest will wait for the inevitable sale just before Christmas. Guaranteed 

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Do me a favour! About 10 people will pay full whack, the rest will wait for the inevitable sale just before Christmas. Guaranteed 

They've sold well, apparently. Steve Mascord wrote about it a while back.

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