Thomas Minns Drug Test fail

[DoubleD]

3 minutes ago, West Leeds Riviera said:

Obviously people deal which things like this differently.

But Jake Livermore was tested positive for cocaine after his child died and he was let off....

The precedent has been set with Livermore and now everyone is trying to exploit that loophole...................oh the cynic in me

[MZH]

I dont know anything about him or his personal life. I have no idea if his excuse is sincere or if he is just trying to lessen the punishment. But my opinion as always in this instance is that recreational drug use shouldnt be worthy of a ban. It should be down to the club to decide whether to suspend him under their own disciplinary system the same as they would for players drinking etc. 

Yes its a stupid thing to do as a professional sportsman, but he hasnt hurt anyone. I highly doubt its anything performance related. Get him the help he needs. Deal with it internally, and move on.

There are players currently in SL who have been found guilty of, amongst other things. Drink driving, racial abuse, domestic violence and assault. Those guys carry on but a young guy should be cut away and forgotten about because he snorted a bit of white powder? Nah.

[Old Frightful]

37 minutes ago, West Leeds Riviera said:

Obviously people deal which things like this differently.

But Jake Livermore was tested positive for cocaine after his child died and he was let off....

The wealthy usually seem to manage to get away with things somehow.

[Oh Sully Sully]

I'm proud to say I'm a Rovers fan reading their statement. A vulnerable 23-year-old doesn't need telling that he's let people down, he needs support, and given the way he speaks about his career being up in the air suggests he is already sincerely remorseful and probably wondering what his mum is thinking of his actions right now.

The ban will be whatever it will be, but I couldn't care less whether it's two years or two weeks so long as Rovers do the right thing by Thomas Minns. I've done a ton of things since the age of 23 that I'm not proud of in any way, and I'm not about to judge somebody through the prism of my current situation when I have no understanding of his internal pain and pressures.

The "well I never resorted to that" brigade clearly don't understand either. Anyone who has read any books such as the Ryan Tandy one will see that more harmful stuff than beer and cigs are more readily available to any RL player who is going through a rocky time.

Since nobody on this forum has access to the full details and yet some are quick to judge, it's probably a good thing for Minns that none of us will be sat on the panel which decides on his ban/treatment going forward.

[eclecticsheep]

In the 80`s and 90`s it was vast quantities of Beer... 

 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

38 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

The wealthy usually seem to manage to get away with things somehow.

What did he get away with? Oh you mean the ban

Yeah because I'm sure Jake Livermore's wealth helps him when he's sat thinking about the passing of his child for maybe the 4th time that day and then remembers 'but it did get me off that drugs ban though.....'  

[JohnM]

38 minutes ago, Oh Sully Sully said:

given the way he speaks about his career being up in the air suggests he is already sincerely remorseful and probably wondering what his mum is thinking of his actions right now.

Do you really think he had any part in that statement? 

Hmmmm..let me think now. Who is HKR Chairman and what is his occupation?

[Dave T]

I have some sympathy with both sides on this one.

I think we need to be careful not to throw people on the scrap heap, but then where does that end? This is a breach of rules and without being heartless, I'm sure any single one of us could create a story for sympathy and leniency.

[JohnM]

12 hours ago, stevereed100 said:

Announced tonight explains withdrawal from Warrington game last weekend.

Test fail at Huddersfield away.

Ex Leeds West Riding based ex teammate of Hardwire, need say no more.

Must be sacked and forgotten about. No sympathy....goodbye good riddance.

Yes, but is that what you really think?

[Oh Sully Sully]

12 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Do you really think he had any part in that statement? 

Hmmmm..let me think now. Who is HKR Chairman and what is his occupation?

I have no reason to believe it's not Minns' words, or at least a dressed-up version of his own words. Why wouldn't an otherwise seemingly sensible kid feel exactly as remorseful as he comes across given the context of what's happened to him in the past nine months?

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

1 hour ago, eclecticsheep said:

In the 80`s and 90`s it was vast quantities of Beer... 

 

And people would have just shrugged their shoulders and left him alone to deal with the hangover. I can't understand why, just because he's used 'drugs' (so's alcohol, by the way), he apparently needs to be shoved up against a wall and shot! He's admitted that he's been a complete d*ck head, said sorry and will now face the consequences.

[David Shepherd]

Bit of lynch mob out I see.

Yes he's been stupid, but I'm not sure he needs hanging, drawing and quartering outside Hudgell's swanky office block.

He's a young lad with probably too much money and time on his hands.  We've all done stupid stuff and put things in our body that are less than legal when we were youths.

The lad will suffer, his career is all but over.

Let's leave it at that, I think it's punishment enough.

[Dave T]

Some bizarre posts here.

Nobody is asking for more than the normal punishment here.

It is him and some fans who are asking for less.

 

[stevereed100]

10 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Possibly the most stupid post I've ever read on here and that's saying something. 

First of all Minns played at Leeds with Hardaker last over 2 years ago - but don't let that get in the way of you trying to make a link....

By your reckoning Hull KR should probably strike off Maguire, Mulhern and Clarkson too as they're bound to have been at it too? 

 

So your comment about Maguire is of the highest intelligence? These players have never failed a drugs test.

The link with Hardaker is " drugs fail". 

I mentioned Hardaker and Leeds to example that he would know exactly the risk he was taking.

His mental state will have been affected by this charge and yes the club and the RFL initiative is there to care for the individual but the game needs to reinforce the fact that it is unacceptable.

He has let himself down, let the team down, let the club down and let his fans down.

I am leaving TRL Forum as too many look to throw bile rather than make intelligent comment.

[terrywebbisgod]

7 minutes ago, stevereed100 said:

So your comment about Maguire is of the highest intelligence? These players have never failed a drugs test.

The link with Hardaker is " drugs fail". 

I mentioned Hardaker and Leeds to example that he would know exactly the risk he was taking.

His mental state will have been affected by this charge and yes the club and the RFL initiative is there to care for the individual but the game needs to reinforce the fact that it is unacceptable.

He has let himself down, let the team down, let the club down and let his fans down.

I am leaving TRL Forum as too many look to throw bile rather than make intelligent comment.

Hardaker didn't fail a drug test whilst playing for Leeds.

Just thought I'd point that out for you.

[Old Frightful]

5 minutes ago, stevereed100 said:

I am leaving TRL Forum as too many look to throw bile rather than make intelligent comment.

You'll be back before too long.

As for thinking this forum is full of bile spitters, try RLFans, I'll give you a couple of days on there.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

15 minutes ago, stevereed100 said:

So your comment about Maguire is of the highest intelligence? These players have never failed a drugs test.

The link with Hardaker is " drugs fail". 

I mentioned Hardaker and Leeds to example that he would know exactly the risk he was taking.

His mental state will have been affected by this charge and yes the club and the RFL initiative is there to care for the individual but the game needs to reinforce the fact that it is unacceptable.

He has let himself down, let the team down, let the club down and let his fans down.

I am leaving TRL Forum as too many look to throw bile rather than make intelligent comment.

You've reflected on your original post and this is the best you can come up with in response, Steve? 

I'll apply your sentiments regarding Minns to you if that's the case - Goodbye and good riddance. 

[John Drake]

35 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Some bizarre posts here.

Nobody is asking for more than the normal punishment here.

It is him and some fans who are asking for less.

 

I think the opening post set the tone, unfortunately.

[DoubleD]

3 hours ago, MZH said:

I dont know anything about him or his personal life. I have no idea if his excuse is sincere or if he is just trying to lessen the punishment. But my opinion as always in this instance is that recreational drug use shouldnt be worthy of a ban. It should be down to the club to decide whether to suspend him under their own disciplinary system the same as they would for players drinking etc. 

Yes its a stupid thing to do as a professional sportsman, but he hasnt hurt anyone. I highly doubt its anything performance related. Get him the help he needs. Deal with it internally, and move on.

There are players currently in SL who have been found guilty of, amongst other things. Drink driving, racial abuse, domestic violence and assault. Those guys carry on but a young guy should be cut away and forgotten about because he snorted a bit of white powder? Nah.

Now I agree with part of this. I don't think taking recreational drugs is nearly as serious as some of the others you list and I wouldn't have an issue if the punishment was a fine & suspension for a month but I didn't make the rules..............and he knew the rules before he put himself in that situation so he's only got himself to blame

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I think the opening post set the tone, unfortunately.

 

1 hour ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

just because he's used 'drugs' (so's alcohol, by the way), he apparently needs to be shoved up against a wall and shot! 

 

1 hour ago, David Shepherd said:

Bit of lynch mob out I see.

Yes he's been stupid, but I'm not sure he needs hanging, drawing and quartering outside Hudgell's swanky office block.

But even the OP's ask for him to be 'sacked and forgotten about' hardly warrants the hysterical response from the above posters.

Ironically accusing others of reacting OTT.

[John Drake]

44 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But even the OP's ask for him to be 'sacked and forgotten about' hardly warrants the hysterical response from the above posters.

Ironically accusing others of reacting OTT.

That's the internet.

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

exactly, the players of old are celebrated for basically going out and drinking ten pints a night before turning it on come match time. Nobody would look at a player struggling with alcohol dependency and advocating sacking them and banning them from the game.

actually i'm not sure that is true. 

when you get players who go out too much or drink too much before games then a lot of people from those clubs do actually advocate sacking them. 

The banning from the game is the nature of this sort of substance abuse and the rules of WADA rather than what someone is "calling for" and people (as has been pointed out) are just asking for the punishment laid down in the guidelines. 

There are a fair number of jobs that dont allow certain things in your system (i know of plenty of banks in the city when i used to work there that did drugs tests, you would get sacked for testing positive) you know the risks when you take them, no matter the circumstance of why you took them. 

He should, of course, get help for whatever his emotional issues are here but he has broken the rules of his employer and he will have to face the consequences which are laid out for him and i would agree personally that this should be done in full. 

Once that is served he should then be allowed to continue his career on if a club is prepared to risk him not falling into the same issues again (this will be down to the clubs to judge etc) and that is his second chance rightly.

[Adeybull]

As far as I can see, none of us know the full circumstances, and none of us know what the substance was.? The statements imply a "recreational", not performance-emhancing, drug and imply a single instance.  But they imply, not confirm.  What IS clear is that the guy admitted he did it, and admitted he knew it was wrong (not that he could think otherwise, of course).  Any arguments can therefore only be in mitigation. Once you start introducing subjective mitigation, especially based on "moment of personal weakness" grounds, you've effectively debased the whole penalty system IMO.

BUT...we also surely need to remember that these guys are just human beings, like the rest of us. And indeed, in many cases nothing like as "educated" (in various ways) as many who post on this forum. It is all to easy to expect a higher level of conduct than "ordinary people" because they are "professionals" in the public eye and role-models.  But they are still just ordinary blokes, with faults and flaws and weaknesses - and personal problems and issues - just like the rest of us. And, sadly more often than perhaps we appreciate, also sometimes with mental health issues like some of the rest of us. 

People will sin in their own ways, and in different areas.  But surely the old adage of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is pertinent?  In any case, hanging him high on the internet is hardly likely to serve any useful purpose, and has potential to seriously aggravate any such issues that may be there?

Reading some of the posts on here, especially the callous OP which - as JD says - did rather set the tone for the thread - I do feel maybe not everyone sees it like that?  I wonder what the OP's view would be if (heaven forbid, and hopefully not) we ended up with another Terry Newton here?

Because, whenever I read stuff like this, I can't help but think of Terry Newton. No-one but the guy himself knows what personal demons he may or may not have been or be contending with. There may be none, and it might just be manufactured excuses deserving of zero sympathy or mitigation.  Or there might be some serious issues needing serious help.  Or somewhere in between. We just don't know.  That is for the due process to determine.

Which is why I am content to take the - to me, responsible - public statements made at face value, and leave it to those close to the issue and those charged with determining the outcome, to deal with it.  In the manner most appropriate to the factual circumstances.

[RP London]

16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Im not advocating a club being forced to continue employing a player, but unless there is a safety issue for a person in a position of trust (like a doctor or pilot) it is down to the employer.

There is a lot of moralising about drugs which when set down is pretty hypocritical. Alcoholics arent sacked and they definitely arent banned. Just because a drug maybe banned by Wada and a punishment set down, that doesnt make it right or good. If alcohol were to be invented now, it would be banned, so would tobacco, so probably would coffee.

I have no sympathy with those using performance enhancing drugs, especially in a contact sport like rugby league. Its dangerous not for just the drugs cheat but everyone else who plays.

Recreational drugs however are a completely different kettle of fish.

Thats not true Alcoholics will be sacked or "let go" which amounts to the same. People who overdo alcohol will get sacked, I've sacked someone here for coming back to work after a couple of drinks at lunch. People are sacked before they realise the have an alcohol problem etc etc etc

Whether you agree with the WADA punishment is irrelevant (i dont agree with a number of laws but I'm not going to break it and expect to be let off in court by saying "sorry but it seems daft").. everyone knows the punishment that is there. I also agree with you about inventing alcohol now but equally if your aunty had (you know where i'm going with this).. it doesnt work like that and still if he was to be turning up to training drunk people would be calling for him to be sacked (as they do with players who do that) do I dont really see a double standard on this thread/board as you do. (in society maybe but not on this thread/board).. just becuase people didnt mind years ago does not mean they dont mind now.

Personally I wouldnt want to be playing Rugby against someone on, for example, Cocaine... it has an affect on you that is not necessarily stable and that is not a good thing... so I dont think it is necessarily a different kettle of fish. 

 

[Brigg Rover]

I have posted on the subject of drugs before and just because it is a player from my own team does not make a difference, he should be banned the same as others have (and I don't mean the pathetic ban handed to Ben Barba by the fools at the NRL.)

Shame for Minns but we all have the ability to make choices and all RL players are given information about drugs and what the consequences of taking them are. The mitigating circumstances could be true we have no way of knowing but he should receive a 2 year ban from playing in line with other players.

He should also be supported by Hull KR and the players association/union to help re build his career and life. Hopefully he can be given some work with school kids etc educating on the dangers of drugs. His position as a RL player will give him credence with kids as he is a role model. Especially after reading the report about the use of class A drugs in Barrow on the BBC today and the number of deaths caused in the last few months. As a society we really need to hammer home the message that drugs are not safe and not a cool and okay thing for people to do!