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Denver Test - Ticket Sales

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With the wages and resources on offer at the RFL I certainly wouldn't just automatically assume that the RFL are following some sort of best practice and are experts in their field. Id hazard a guess that several on here would certainly be better qualified. The RFL strategy seems to be more of the oh #### this event is selling poorly how do we create a promo code again? 

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18 minutes ago, Damien said:

And my main point is the same in that there are always better offers later in the season than what I get offered at the start of the season as a returning customer. Hence no point buying early. The best offers should always be earlier on and tale off, if we must have offers, as the season goes on. They should never be better and thus disincentive people from buying early, which should be actively encouraged. As is evident on this forum this isnt the case now and people are being discouraged. 

This is where we disagree. I have no issues with using this tactic - but it shouldn't 'always' be the case - and I don't believe it is.

If it was every time then I would agree it would be bad practice, but that certainly isn't my experience,and I have bought both early and late depending on circumstances.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter what I tell you, there is a perception that it is always cheaper to wait, and that is a problem for the RFL. Not sure why it is too much of a problem for customers, if you have worked out the cheapest time to get them, knock yourself out!

Personally I would only limit discounts closer to thee time to targeted groups as exclusives.

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21 minutes ago, John Drake said:

How do you know that?

Others in this thread are arguing it is a prime example of long established and great sports marketing wisdom.

because they don't do it every time.

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20 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Weren't Magic tickets priced deliberately cheap to start with?

Perhaps difficult to reduce them further without giving them away.

They aren't that cheap for non-members tbh. But it'll be interesting to see what offers come out for the semi finals, as we didn't see this tactic for Magic.

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28 minutes ago, SaintGeoff55 said:

So how many tickets have actually been sold? Who is in charge of the event on the ground? Have they made any comments? 

No idea, I wonder what size crowd will be deemed a success if we're going back in '19 and '20

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5 minutes ago, West Leeds Riviera said:

No idea, I wonder what size crowd will be deemed a success if we're going back in '19 and '20

That's an interesting question. They stated 40k target, but I suspect that was partially to make it seem like a big event. They may also be more forgiving given their reduced time to sell, waiting for the game to be confirmed.

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1 hour ago, SaintGeoff55 said:

So how many tickets have actually been sold? Who is in charge of the event on the ground? Have they made any comments? 

Numbers seem hard to come by - from what I can tell they are still under 14-15k?

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5 minutes ago, PeterWardFormerSLStormRL said:

At Magic the RFL reduced ticket prices to £10 on Sunday. I'm sure there were other ticket holders who'd ponied up full price for their team before then.

But you had to have bought a ticket for Saturday already, it was a targeted offer. For season ticket holders the price for that extra day was 7.50 anyway. 15 for non members.

If you were sat in the ground on Saturday without a Sunday ticket, it is unlikely you were gonna buy one, so an offer is entirely appropriate.

You couldnt just go to the RFL site and see tickets for a tenner.

Edited by Dave T
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3 hours ago, Cowardly Fan said:

That's an interesting question. They stated 40k target, but I suspect that was partially to make it seem like a big event. They may also be more forgiving given their reduced time to sell, waiting for the game to be confirmed.

I don't think anyone really knows what to expect. I mean 15 K in a 76k seater stadium won't look good but I suppose they want something to build upon for the next two years, like you say they had to wait for the game to be confirmed. Hopefully they will have more time to sell tickets and market it for next year

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The pricing strategy I have most experience with is long-haul scheduled flights. I guess it's probably a common algorithm that airlines use and maybe someone else knows more about it. 

From observation, the prices seem to go like this:

Initially sold at standard full price 11 months out when the timetable is confirmed. It stays there until the flight reaches break-even point and the flight becomes viable. If this is not achieved at a certain point they'll cancel the flight or look for code shares. 

The sales are then monitored and discounts are given intermittently to increase the speed of sales if necessary. 

As the flight date approaches, the price then goes up, often above the initial price if supply is limited. 

On the day of the flight, if there are still tickets left, they are massively discounted to try and sell the remaining seats. 

Clearly, not an identical situation as you can buy the same product from competitors, but there should be some sort of organised strategy. 

If you want a more radical solution, how about the governing body deciding how much income they want from ticket sales and then split the stadium in two and sell half to each of two competing promoters and let them get on with it. Creating competition and a need to maximise sales and income. 

Edit: once I've booked a flight, I don't keep checking the price and moan about it. On the the flight there will be a massive variance on what passengers have paid for the same thing. 

Edited by Wholly Trinity
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4 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Edit: once I've booked a flight, I don't keep checking the price and moan about it. On the the flight there will be a massive variance on what passengers have paid for the same thing. 

I ask people at the gate before I board the plane how much they paid. If they don't answer, I wait until they are asleep during the flight and ask them again. If I discover they have paid less than me, I try and steal something from their luggage which matches the price difference. Can get tricky working this out with fluctuating exchange rates but nobody said life was easy.

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14 hours ago, John Drake said:

Does it work in RL, though?

Are all our major events always full?

I think part of the problem is that discounting tickets late on is the only strategy RL ever seems to use, and a lot of people have got wise to that now, and some are clearly alienated by it.

Consequently, instead of being able to post the 'full house' signs months in advance for our major events, we all know there'll be a flood of cheap tickets coming later on so we wait, and wait, and wait, and it makes the sport look cheap and even desperate to shift tickets for its showpiece events.

If you alienate your keenest customers and devalue your major events, it can't be described as a strategy that's working, in my view.

I 100% agree that RL needs to do more for selling tickets and marketing games are on and so on. the knowledge that a game is taking pace is poor, getting people to go is poor even when tickets are given away this doesnt seem to help. 

In your industry John you have rate cards for advertising, the further away you book your space the more chance you have of paying nearly rate card but you can get really good deals closer to the publication date because you have already paid your costs (or very nearly) with the early purchasers, who are happy to pay that price, and you are making more profit on the last few so can sell them lower. Equally you need to fill the space because you dont want to be 5 pages less than last week as people will think they are getting less content rather than less ads. Some of those companies would not take the advertising at anything more than the reduced rate as they are at the end of their yearly budget or dont see the market as that valuable or for whatever reason, it also allows you to give "great deals" to companies that are important to have in the magazine but drive hard bargains (some buyers are targetted on how many % they get off rate card for example). If you started off with a reduced rate from the get go, somewhere in between, then you are giving those that would have paid a higher fee a reduced fee for no reason while stopping some of the companies that can only take cheaper ads from being able to place it and you still have to give some of the "good deals" away but starting at a lower mark. 

Would that be a great way to work? it is highly likely that you will not fix that price at the right point, that you wont fill the mag and your ability to sell by doing deals is heavily curtailed. 

Put all that into RL as it is no different, some people are happy to pay the higher price for getting the tickets early (for me the semi final tickets through our league were cheap, I would have happily paid £10 more for mine and £5 more for my sons) so sell those to them, make sure the event makes some money. Then discount down to encourage more people who arent that bothered but when they see a good deal will take it. Some people only want a deal and no matter what you do with the pricing they want to know they have got the "best deal" as people are just like that, if you dont have deals or dont reduce ticket prices then those people will not buy or will be on here grumbling (though that happens no matter what people do). 

The "equation" used to cover costs is used by every organisation in every industry and its important to do (for obvious reasons). To change down to a lower standard price with no ability to deviate means you have no means (via ticket pricing) to encourage more to come in etc

I would absolutely agree that the RFL doesnt do enough to push the tickets, would anyone outside of RL or even the inner circle of RL supporters really know about the game in Denver (a few may know its on but when etc). What about the Internationals later in the year, yet the RFU are already pushing their autumn international tickets heavily (and they almost always sell out but they still push) and 6 nations tickets were available almost as soon as this years were done. 

The ticketing policy, however, I dont blame. The RL fans are treated no differently to any other fan we just moan more about it (not shocked). Whatever the RFL do they will be wrong (again no surprise) if they tried your policy and lost money there would be people on here questioning why they were going away from normal working practices. If you cannot get a "deal" close to the time people will moan because they wanted a deal, or its not sold out so why cant they get a deal and so on. 

Agreed though the RFL are not good at pushing and marketing the games and actually selling the tickets.

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14 hours ago, Damien said:

For at least a decade I have always had, or seen, offers for the Challenge Cup Final and Grand Final in the last few weeks prior. These are our 2 premium events. I generally get an email with offers for these at the start of the season, as someone who has bought before, and these are always substantially less than closer to the time. This is plain wrong and a crazy marketing approach. 

Hang on I thought you wanted those that were loyal to be rewarded.. this looks like a reward for being loyal and now your complaining about it? surely this is what you were asking for.. 

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14 hours ago, Damien said:

With the wages and resources on offer at the RFL I certainly wouldn't just automatically assume that the RFL are following some sort of best practice and are experts in their field. Id hazard a guess that several on here would certainly be better qualified. The RFL strategy seems to be more of the oh #### this event is selling poorly how do we create a promo code again? 

now that I dont disagree with at all... Their ability to do something to encourage people to buy is simply reduce the price.. their ability to "market" the game is awful.

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I’m surprised they haven’t tried to get the Toronto marketing team involved somehow. They seem to do a brilliant job and have a bit more creativity. I suspect they also know the US market pretty well 

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2 hours ago, RP London said:

I 100% agree that RL needs to do more for selling tickets and marketing games are on and so on. the knowledge that a game is taking pace is poor, getting people to go is poor even when tickets are given away this doesnt seem to help. 

In your industry John you have rate cards for advertising, the further away you book your space the more chance you have of paying nearly rate card but you can get really good deals closer to the publication date because you have already paid your costs (or very nearly) with the early purchasers, who are happy to pay that price, and you are making more profit on the last few so can sell them lower. Equally you need to fill the space because you dont want to be 5 pages less than last week as people will think they are getting less content rather than less ads. Some of those companies would not take the advertising at anything more than the reduced rate as they are at the end of their yearly budget or dont see the market as that valuable or for whatever reason, it also allows you to give "great deals" to companies that are important to have in the magazine but drive hard bargains (some buyers are targetted on how many % they get off rate card for example). If you started off with a reduced rate from the get go, somewhere in between, then you are giving those that would have paid a higher fee a reduced fee for no reason while stopping some of the companies that can only take cheaper ads from being able to place it and you still have to give some of the "good deals" away but starting at a lower mark. 

Would that be a great way to work? it is highly likely that you will not fix that price at the right point, that you wont fill the mag and your ability to sell by doing deals is heavily curtailed. 

Put all that into RL as it is no different, some people are happy to pay the higher price for getting the tickets early (for me the semi final tickets through our league were cheap, I would have happily paid £10 more for mine and £5 more for my sons) so sell those to them, make sure the event makes some money. Then discount down to encourage more people who arent that bothered but when they see a good deal will take it. Some people only want a deal and no matter what you do with the pricing they want to know they have got the "best deal" as people are just like that, if you dont have deals or dont reduce ticket prices then those people will not buy or will be on here grumbling (though that happens no matter what people do). 

The "equation" used to cover costs is used by every organisation in every industry and its important to do (for obvious reasons). To change down to a lower standard price with no ability to deviate means you have no means (via ticket pricing) to encourage more to come in etc

I would absolutely agree that the RFL doesnt do enough to push the tickets, would anyone outside of RL or even the inner circle of RL supporters really know about the game in Denver (a few may know its on but when etc). What about the Internationals later in the year, yet the RFU are already pushing their autumn international tickets heavily (and they almost always sell out but they still push) and 6 nations tickets were available almost as soon as this years were done. 

The ticketing policy, however, I dont blame. The RL fans are treated no differently to any other fan we just moan more about it (not shocked). Whatever the RFL do they will be wrong (again no surprise) if they tried your policy and lost money there would be people on here questioning why they were going away from normal working practices. If you cannot get a "deal" close to the time people will moan because they wanted a deal, or its not sold out so why cant they get a deal and so on. 

Agreed though the RFL are not good at pushing and marketing the games and actually selling the tickets.

I don't think flogging advertising in magazines is directly comparable to flogging tickets for RL games. It's much harder!!

If anyone has a magic formula for that, please PM me asap!! ;)

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1 minute ago, John Drake said:

I don't think flogging advertising in magazines is directly comparable to flogging tickets for RL games. It's much harder!!

If anyone has a magic formula for that, please PM me asap!! ;)

I used to do that for Financial Publications back in the early 2000s when straight out of uni... not easy and not much fun! (had a great laugh though with the team but the job was tough)

Edited by RP London
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Maybe there has been enough tickets sold at this stage to cover the event,therefore Moore has decided  to reduce the price of admission to pull in others.Good thinking I would say.

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1 minute ago, frank said:

Maybe there has been enough tickets sold at this stage to cover the event,therefore Moore has decided  to reduce the price of admission to pull in others.Good thinking I would say.

That's wishful thinking if ever I've seen it! There is no way costs can be covered yet with current ticket sales estimates and no partners announced. 

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3 minutes ago, Damien said:

That's wishful thinking if ever I've seen it! There is no way costs can be covered yet with current ticket sales estimates and no partners announced. 

Wishful thinking or not there is a number of TV channels showing the game ,there will be a considerable amount coming in there.

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