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RayCee

Would It Help Leeds To Be Relegated?

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I didn't think I would say this about a team with the highest spectator attendances in SL but maybe rebuilding would be better achieved in the Championship. This team is starting to look well short of other SL teams in terms of just about every attribute needed to compete at that level. Losing week after week just makes that job so much harder. It knocks the confidence. BM used to say we just need some bodies back, but this is well beyond injury issues. KS has a lot of work to do and I hope he's up to the task. Playing and coaching are two different things. 


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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6 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I didn't think I would say this about a team with the highest spectator attendances in SL but maybe rebuilding would be better achieved in the Championship. This team is starting to look well short of other SL teams in terms of just about every attribute needed to compete at that level. Losing week after week just makes that job so much harder. It knocks the confidence. BM used to say we just need some bodies back, but this is well beyond injury issues. KS has a lot of work to do and I hope he's up to the task. Playing and coaching are two different things. 

No, SL simply cannot afford to lose 200,000 spectators. It wouldn't be good for anyone. You could have said exactly the same about Catalans last season. A new coach and some shrewd signings can change everything.

We are falling behind rival competitions as it is. We don't need to punish the game further just because it humbles the competition's highest grossing team.

Edited by Scubby
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Another thing that I don’t think helps is the fact that KS is only recently retired and will still have mates in the dressing room. Whether he’s big enough to see beyond that friendship and make the right decisions for the club is another matter. Time will tell.


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3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

No, SL simply cannot afford to lose 200,000 spectators. It wouldn't be good for anyone. You could have said exactly the same about Catalans last season. A new coach and some shrewd signings can change everything.

We are falling behind rival competitions as it is. We don't need to punish the game further just because it humbles the competition's highest grossing team.

I agree with much you say Scubby. However, the Catalans were a good team underachieving. I'm starting to see this Leeds outfit as an ordinary team needing a massive overhaul. If they can get it sorted ASAP without relegation, great. I'm starting to have my doubts on that one.


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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3 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I agree with much you say Scubby. However, the Catalans were a good team underachieving. I'm starting to see this Leeds outfit as an ordinary team needing a massive overhaul. If they can get it sorted ASAP without relegation, great. I'm starting to have my doubts on that one.

Leeds have more resources than any club in the NH. If they wanted to sort this they could. They have tried to put a team out on the cheap while the money is poured into the infrastructure. That's fair enough if they can only operate on 12k gates at present. When it is done they will have 20k places to fill and 100s more corporate and VIP sections to sell. To do that they will need to build a winning team. Relegation would be a disaster not just for Leeds but the whole British game.

Edited by Scubby
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As much as I think it would be funny seeing Leeds relegated I don't think it would be good for RL and so I wouldn't like to see it. We are desperately short of big clubs in Super League as it is and losing one of our biggest would be a blow.

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Not sure it would help Leeds, but I’d enjoy it. 

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It will never, EVER, help ANY club to be relegated.  Trust me.

Been there, done that, got the scars (and they cut real deep). All those folk who say "drop a division and rebuild" -have you actually done that?  It WILL NOT HAPPEN!  Its a load of craap.

SL losing Bradford was a chuffing disaster for SL. Total, unmitigated disaster IMO. Losing Leeds would be nothing short of an absoluted unmitigated total catastrophe.

Edited by Adeybull
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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9 minutes ago, Adeybull said:

It will never, EVER, help ANY club to be relegated.  Trust me.

Been there, done that, got the scars (and they cut real deep). All those folk who say "drop a division and rebuild" -have you actually done that?  It WILL NOT HAPPEN!  Its a load of craap.

SL losing Bradford was a chuffing disaster for SL. Total, unmitigated disaster IMO. Losing Leeds would be nothing short of an absoluted unmitigated total catastrophe.

Won't disagree that it wouldn't help Leeds, or anyone else these days.

However, it sure did give Wigan a kick up the backside after 10 years of treading water going nowhere. 

We would never have had the glory years without relegation and the complete clear out at all levels.

Edited by dixiedean

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9 minutes ago, Adeybull said:

It will never, EVER, help ANY club to be relegated.  Trust me.

Been there, done that, got the scars (and they cut real deep). All those folk who say "drop a division and rebuild" -have you actually done that?  It WILL NOT HAPPEN!  Its a load of craap.

SL losing Bradford was a chuffing disaster for SL. Total, unmitigated disaster IMO. Losing Leeds would be nothing short of an absoluted unmitigated total catastrophe.

So you’re not keen then?


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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Another reason for Franchises... The sport cannot afford to loose Leeds to SL or Cats or Wigan or Saints or Wire or the Hull teams etc etc.... SL at 14 teams, 2 French, 12 English... Fixed with scope for expansion if money allows. 

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It would be a good laugh and they are built on strong enough foundations to survive it, but no.

I don't think they are in danger either: they have enough pace and evasion to get past the sides they are coming up against in the Middle 8s.


I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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1 minute ago, Just Browny said:

It would be a good laugh and they are built on strong enough foundations to survive it, but no.

I don't think they are in danger either: they have enough pace and evasion to get past the sides they are coming up against in the Middle 8s.

Need to make simple one on one tackles though...

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5 minutes ago, RayCee said:

So you’re not keen then?

OK. I realise I prob sit on the fence and keep my feelings to myself, but yes you got me there.  I DO have the odd slight reservation, I'll reluctantly admit! ??

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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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3 minutes ago, Southerner80 said:

Another reason for Franchises... The sport cannot afford to loose Leeds to SL or Cats or Wigan or Saints or Wire or the Hull teams etc etc.... SL at 14 teams, 2 French, 12 English... Fixed with scope for expansion if money allows. 

If they lose enough games and deserve it on performances they go down , as anyone and if they or anyone is good enough on the pitch next year they go up . I just don’t like a closed shop or a focus away from winning or losing matches as the primary and ultimate determining factor 

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May help Hetherington not being the odd one out but it would harm the competition in SL. Sadly there are a couple of clubs that haven’t pulled their weight at all this year that would be better plying their trade in the Championship. Whether they can rebuild and bounce back up is a moot point. 

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10 minutes ago, Adeybull said:

It will never, EVER, help ANY club to be relegated.  Trust me.

Been there, done that, got the scars (and they cut real deep). All those folk who say "drop a division and rebuild" -have you actually done that?  It WILL NOT HAPPEN!  Its a load of craap.

SL losing Bradford was a chuffing disaster for SL. Total, unmitigated disaster IMO. Losing Leeds would be nothing short of an absoluted unmitigated total catastrophe.

Agreed. Its a nice idea in principle, spend a year in the championship, ship out the dead wood, recruit a young squad that can develop together, get used to winning again and then come back up.

The trouble is, what happens if things don't quite go to plan and you end up spending a second season there? Then a new expansion team comes along (New York?) and takes what should have been your promotion place and you have to do a third season? Then you find that attendances are in the gutter, money isnt adding up any more and you have to trim the squad. All the while the gap between you and SL is growing ever bigger.

Its got to be survival at all costs. Rebuilding can wait until they know where they are going to be playing next year.

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Just now, Adeybull said:

SL losing Bradford was a chuffing disaster for SL. Total, unmitigated disaster IMO. Losing Leeds would be nothing short of an absoluted unmitigated total catastrophe.

I would say that the Bulls situation was somewhat different to where Leeds are. Bradford kept going broke, having points docked and spiraling downward. Leeds are sound financially and would have every chance to get back soon. Of course getting back up is always a challenge.

I didn't raise this because I want Leeds to go but I see 2019 as another tough year if they do stay up in SL. The squad needs a major overhaul and rebuilding a quality team takes time, if you let things slip like Leeds have. 

On the Bulls, I wrote this piece about them recently to show I sympathise with what they have been through:

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/2018/07/bradford-bulls-1996-2018.html


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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4 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I would say that the Bulls situation was somewhat different to where Leeds are. Bradford kept going broke, having points docked and spiraling downward. Leeds are sound financially and would have every chance to get back soon. Of course getting back up is always a challenge.

I didn't raise this because I want Leeds to go but I see 2019 as another tough year if they do stay up in SL. The squad needs a major overhaul and rebuilding a quality team takes time, if you let things slip like Leeds have. 

On the Bulls, I wrote this piece about them recently to show I sympathise with what they have been through:

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/2018/07/bradford-bulls-1996-2018.html

The Leeds squad isn't horrendous, there is some dross there that needs shipping on but there are also still some good players in there to build around. The likes of Wakefield, Hull and Cas in recent years have shown how quickly fortunes can change with just one or two years of really strong recruitment. I just cant agree that playing Championship is a better place to build from than SL. For a start the kind of players you want to sign are going to be choosing SL clubs instead, and you aren't going to have the same income to be able to bring them in anyway. 

I agree the next year or two might be a bit grim for Leeds fans, but its much better to tough it out at the bottom end of SL than to play the lottery of being in the championship.

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1 hour ago, Scubby said:

No, SL simply cannot afford to lose 200,000 spectators. It wouldn't be good for anyone. You could have said exactly the same about Catalans last season. A new coach and some shrewd signings can change everything.

We are falling behind rival competitions as it is. We don't need to punish the game further just because it humbles the competition's highest grossing team.

SL has been fine without Bradford. It’ll be fine without Leeds. I’d expect Leeds to bounce back straight away though.

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9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

SL has been fine without Bradford. It’ll be fine without Leeds. I’d expect Leeds to bounce back straight away though.

WOW, good to see someone that has enough confidence in the sport of RL to continue regardless.Obviously you're a dieing breed.

Anyway i think it would be fantastic for the sport if Leeds are relegated and Toronto are promoted,the free publicity from the media would be worth millions

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20 minutes ago, Spidey said:

SL has been fine without Bradford. It’ll be fine without Leeds. I’d expect Leeds to bounce back straight away though.

Has it?  Will it be?

It looks pretty stale and going nowhere fast to me.

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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.

Bury your memories; bury your friends. Leave it alone for a year or two.  Till the stories grow hazy, and the legends come true.  Then do it again - some things never end.

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1 hour ago, RayCee said:

I didn't think I would say this about a team with the highest spectator attendances in SL 

How many Leeds fans were there today?  Leigh would have taken more.

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