12 Aug: Qualifiers: Halifax v Toronto Wolfpack KO 3pm

[Anonymouse]

never mind radio or tv , if you love your club then pay through the turnstiles ..home and away 

[TboneFromTO]

16 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Yes this is the point though. 'Qualifiers' are fake.

If we must have something other than a straight 1 up 1 down, then yes have a plain top 5. Take the bottom club and the top 4 in Championship. Have a 5 team  McIntyre System where each bottom team is gradually whirled down to a Final. Every one would have a second chance except the 1st elimination round.

Certainly the bottom super league club might lose, but it at least finished bottom of its own table in the first place. In the insane Qualifiers, the nr 9 team might miss out thanks to some fluke or other. A bonkers system.

Sounds like the bourgoisie are afraid of the proletariat.  This system favors the super league (since they receive a boat load of more funding).  Blame the owners and managers for screwing up a nearly unloseable scenerio

 

[westlondonfan]

The MPG gives the bottom placed Super League team one final chance to escape the drop. 

I think Toronto have at least two SL teams on their sights and want to get automatic promotion. I think the Super League teams are frightened this year. London and Toulouse may come close too. 

 

[Futtocks]

6 minutes ago, Anonymouse said:

never mind radio or tv , if you love your club then pay through the turnstiles ..home and away 

And, because we are not living in the 1920s when most clubs' fans lived a short walk from the ground, if you love your club pay an exorbitant train fare to get to the town (possibly even getting there within an hour of the scheduled arrival time), then an overblown hotel/BnB fee, on top of your "more virtuous than thou" turnstile tariff. It isn't just a local game for local people any more. Some of the folk who wanted to watch today's match live in Canada, which is (believe it or not) even further away than Barnsley.

[TboneFromTO]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

And, because we are not living in the 1920s when most clubs' fans lived a short walk from the ground, if you love your club pay an exorbitant train fare to get to the town (possibly even getting there within an hour of the scheduled arrival time), then an overblown hotel/BnB fee, on top of your "more virtuous than thou" turnstile tariff. It isn't just a local game for local people any more. Some of the folk who wanted to watch today's match live in Canada, which is (believe it or not) even further away than Barnsley.

Whoa now.  Barnsley is at the end of the earth.  Any farther you fall off the edge

[Rupert Prince]

15 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I guess you think the SL GF is the end result of a Mickey Mouse system too?

Regarding the SL, I believe in a proper regular season and a top 5 playoff. It's possible that the regular season may be uneven if possibly everyone does not play everyone 2ce each, or something.

In the good golden days the Championship made up of a Lancs and York's leagues brought everyone back to a top 4 (and then more) even though not everyone  played each other. They then played off. And it made sense.

But as of now all the SL clubs could I believe play for a top 5, and the wooden spoonist (if there must be one) gets relegated.  There is nothing Mickey Mouse about that. Even Goofy can work that out.

[Wolford6]

5 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

 Some of the folk who wanted to watch today's match live in Canada, which is (believe it or not) even further away than Barnsley.

If you have to go through Lancashire to get there, it;s probably not worth the risk.

[Anonymouse]

19 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

And, because we are not living in the 1920s when most clubs' fans lived a short walk from the ground, if you love your club pay an exorbitant train fare to get to the town (possibly even getting there within an hour of the scheduled arrival time), then an overblown hotel/BnB fee, on top of your "more virtuous than thou" turnstile tariff. It isn't just a local game for local people any more. Some of the folk who wanted to watch today's match live in Canada, which is (believe it or not) even further away than Barnsley.

you sound a bit over the top mate , radio and tv alone will not save rugby or many other ball sports who have a history and foundation of being played in an arena , ie stadium . Empty stadiums will kill off ball games . Fact .

[Ant]

The bottom team is the one that looses the MPG. Not the one that is 12th after 23 rounds. 

It's not a difficult concept to grasp 

Just like the champions aren't the top team after 23 rounds 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

8 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Regarding the SL, I believe in a proper regular season and a top 5 playoff. It's possible that the regular season may be uneven if possibly everyone does not play everyone 2ce each, or something.

In the good golden days the Championship made up of a Lancs and York's leagues brought everyone back to a top 4 (and then more) even though not everyone  played each other. They then played off. And it made sense.

But as of now all the SL clubs could I believe play for a top 5, and the wooden spoonist (if there must be one) gets relegated.  There is nothing Mickey Mouse about that. Even Goofy can work that out.

A side finishing 5th becoming Champions is definitely more Mickey Mouse than the Qualifiers. Maybe you should consider your first point; the Qualifiers are most definitely 'uneven' in that teams not only get home advantage against some and not others but also an unequal number of home and away games. It's also entirely possible that the bottom SL club has finished there due to the 'unevenness' of the extra Magic game, so presumably that would need to be balanced out too?

[Rupert Prince]

17 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Sounds like the bourgoisie are afraid of the proletariat.  This system favors the super league (since they receive a boat load of more funding).  Blame the owners and managers for screwing up a nearly unloseable scenerio

 

Pathetic comment. What as any of any of that got to with any bourgoise-ness. Except of course you are stuck in 1948.   

It about a plain straightforward play off system. And it's also about promoting  a game which otherwise will die because you want the tail to wag the dog.

How strange that a country founded on working class transported  convcts can transform and manage a thriving RL game, without any relegation and without any artificial constructs. Don't make me laugh about some supposed proletariat. Although FWIW,  my father and his brother worked down the pit.

Go ahead and just have 1 up 1 down. But leave behind your half baked  polemics. Otherwise yes one and all, go ahead let the game fade.

[Futtocks]

5 minutes ago, Anonymouse said:

you sound a bit over the top mate , radio and tv alone will not save rugby or many other ball sports who have a history and foundation of being played in an arena , ie stadium . Empty stadiums will kill off ball games . Fact .

And a sport, in the modern era, that doesn't get good TV and radio numbers will also wither, shrink and quite probably die. Amazingly, some things in life aren't stark black and white choices.

There are several thousand Toronto fans who have got used to having their club's games on TV whenever they can't get to the stadium in person. Are they wrong to be disappointed by the lack of RL on their televisions this weekend?

In addition, people like me, who have limited funds and live a long way away from the Shay but would have liked to have seen today's qualifier - are we less righteous in some obscure way? Are we lesser beings because we can't walk through the turnstiles every weekend?

[Rupert Prince]

8 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

A side finishing 5th becoming Champions is definitely more Mickey Mouse than the Qualifiers. Maybe you should consider your first point; the Qualifiers are most definitely 'uneven' in that teams not only get home advantage against some and not others but also an unequal number of home and away games. It's also entirely possible that the bottom SL club has finished there due to the 'unevenness' of the extra Magic game, so presumably that would need to be balanced out too?

I dont support the super 8s. It's basically marking time for the semis. I'm agnostic about the magic game. I support a top 5 system and I do not believe in splitting up the league to create these Mickey Mouse qualifiers. 

[TboneFromTO]

20 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Pathetic comment. What as any of any of that got to with any bourgoise-ness. Except of course you are stuck in 1948.   

It about a plain straightforward play off system. And it's also about promoting  a game which otherwise will die because you want the tail to wag the dog.

How strange that a country founded on working class transported  convcts can transform and manage a thriving RL game, without any relegation and without any artificial constructs. Don't make me laugh about some supposed proletariat. Although FWIW,  my father and his brother worked down the pit.

Go ahead and just have 1 up 1 down. But leave behind your half baked  polemics. Otherwise yes one and all, go ahead let the game fade.

Cute.  Keep the strawman attacks coming. Shows how little argument you have.  this system was designed to keep championship teams down and super league teams up.  This year we are going to see two (maybe more) go down.  It is poor ownership decisions (and one super rich Aussie sports fan) that have gotten us there.  I'm not going to touch licenseing because when you realize most of the heartland teams would disappear people tend to get mad.

Plenty of sports have play of tournaments after the regular season to decide champions.  Most (if not all) of these leagues do better financially then the RFL.  

It's not 1948, it's 2018 and major metropolitan areas like Toronto have more pull then small former coal mining towns.   It's a miracle some of these teams still exists. And the current system is about all stopping them from moving into obscurity

[dixiedean]

56 minutes ago, Anonymouse said:

you sound a bit over the top mate , radio and tv alone will not save rugby or many other ball sports who have a history and foundation of being played in an arena , ie stadium . Empty stadiums will kill off ball games . Fact .

I am old enough to remember when the only live domestic football on Tv was the FA Cup final. Early 80's. Crowds are up massively since then with a live game or two on almost every day.

[Rupert Prince]

44 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Cute.  Keep the strawman attacks coming. Shows how little argument you have.  this system was designed to keep championship teams down and super league teams up.  This year we are going to see two (maybe more) go down.  It is poor ownership decisions (and one super rich Aussie sports fan) that have gotten us there.  I'm not going to touch licenseing because when you realize most of the heartland teams would disappear people tend to get mad.

Plenty of sports have play of tournaments after the regular season to decide champions.  Most (if not all) of these leagues do better financially then the RFL.  

It's not 1948, it's 2018 and major metropolitan areas like Toronto have more pull then small former coal mining towns.   It's a miracle some of these teams still exists. And the current system is about all stopping them from moving into obscurity

get real.  In a 12 team league then have 1 up 1 down.  That's not protecting the top tier.

Don't manucture these fantasies. A 2nd tier has a perfect right to exist. In a viable 2nd tier.   But wake up if, as we are told, various mickey mouse backwoods Aussie league clubs can make their own money with 150k salary caps.

Backwards attitudes are killing this game.  And faffing round with criminally thick playoff up and down systems won't kill, it will be suicide. Leeds may well, and should, survive, but suppose they finish 4th? Maybe 2 remaining key players get injured. Hall may already be missing. Anything goes wrong and they are relegated (beaten by Widnes?)

Pardon me, but that potential scenario is criminal.  Criminal for the game. And if people say 'of course they will survive' , well then,  'whats the point'.   These  8s are fake.

 

[ojx]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Go ahead and just have 1 up 1 down. 

Completely agree TWP should already be promoted at the expense of Widnes, who have lost 17 straight games. There is no reason why a team like Hull KR should be in trouble now, they have already been proven to be a competitive SL team.

[TboneFromTO]

31 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

get real.  In a 12 team league then have 1 up 1 down.  That's not protecting the top tier.

Don't manucture these fantasies. A 2nd tier has a perfect right to exist. In a viable 2nd tier.   But wake up if, as we are told, various mickey mouse backwoods Aussie league clubs can make their own money with 150k salary caps.

Backwards attitudes are killing this game.  And faffing round with criminally thick playoff up and down systems won't kill, it will be suicide. Leeds may well, and should, survive, but suppose they finish 4th? Maybe 2 remaining key players get injured. Hall may already be missing. Anything goes wrong and they are relegated (beaten by Widnes?)

Pardon me, but that potential scenario is criminal.  Criminal for the game. And if people say 'of course they will survive' , well then,  'whats the point'.   These  8s are fake.

 

You see, you seem to have me pegged as a traditionalist but I am not.  If Leeds go down and can't survive, then they don't deserve too.  If the argument the league can't survive without a team like Leeds in it (which I don't buy) then you have ALOT of fair weather fans.  I don't stop watching hockey highlights (games are on too late over here) because the leafs got eliminated again, I keep watching because I love the sport.

If the ownership structures of these teams can't adapt to smaller scale operations because of their poor planning and financial decisions then the team SHOULD go bankrupt.  I don't care if the team is 2 years or 200 years old.

The super 8 qualifiers shouldnt be lost by super league teams because they get a million pounds  more in funding (that's why it's the million pound game right). The exceptions to this would be any team who is financially viable enough (through sponsorship, gates, etc) to spend the upper echelon of the salary cap and compete rightfully with SL teams, and the million pound game. 

I'm not manufacturing fantasy, Leeds could go down (they likely won't). If they pick up some key injuries and that sinks them, well then the extra money they get from their massive gates and sweet sky money have been squandered by the owners. And you all should be rightfully furious, but at the team ownership not the league

 

 

[redsi42]

2 hours ago, westlondonfan said:

The MPG gives the bottom placed Super League team one final chance to escape the drop. 

I think Toronto have at least two SL teams on their sights and want to get automatic promotion. I think the Super League teams are frightened this year. London and Toulouse may come close too. 

 

Which two?

[JohnM]

5 hours ago, Anonymouse said:

you sound a bit over the top mate , radio and tv alone will not save rugby or many other ball sports who have a history and foundation of being played in an arena , ie stadium . Empty stadiums will kill off ball games . Fact .

So what will half empty half full stadiums do?

[East Coast Tiger]

C’mon people, if you go to the games you get to hear all the abuse at the ref, players and their families from the hard fans in the stand. Who wouldn’t want that?

Imagine those uppity Canadians thinking the game should be on TV. What is this, professional sport or something?

[westlondonfan]

8 hours ago, redsi42 said:

Which two?

Before Friday I might of said Widnes and Salford.

[The Parksider]

10 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

This system was designed to keep championship teams down and super league teams up. 

It was nothing of the sort.

It was designed to make games more interesting with a view to increasing the crowds through the jeopardy of clubs either being at at risk of relegation or in with a chance of promotion.That is exactly what the RFL said it was for so your making up the usual rubbish.

In addition six SL clubs voted against having this system but it got through because the RFL offered advance SKY contract payments of £300,000 to clubs in financial difficulty if they would vote the system in, so it was a fix.

9 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

If Leeds go down and can't survive, then they don't deserve too. 

It's nothing to do with "deserving" anything, it's primarily a business that needs to operate with it's top tier populated with the clubs who attract the most interest for TV fans here in England which includes Leeds and Bradford so they really should be in it because if they are not it would be easy for SKY to give the RFL the hard word. SKY have already told SL that they may not pay as much next time, and they may pay even less if the top clubs are not even in the Superleague.

Having a big TV deal is crucial to the survival of the sport.

So what big TV deal did Toronto Wolfpack sign and share with Superleague? Eric Perez told us of the TV riches he would bring to our game so where are they? Where are Montreal who were supposed to be here now to help engineer that deal?

Where are the Grid Iron converts Perez told us he was going to train up in 2016 to add to the player pool??

Noble is bleating about how SL "Can't stop TWP's promotion" should they win that, as he knows the score on this issue. He talks about things that were never what Eric Perez promised which was a big TV deal off the back of a number of NA clubs in Superleague NOT JUST ONE

And a steady supply of top RL players converted from grid iron. Not one player was ever converted whilst Leeds continue to put some great young lads onto the field. If Leeds are relegated for TWP do not expect people in SL board rooms and fans over here to stand by and just accept it.

I suggest you read the whole thing up and stop making garbage up from your bedroom 3,000 miles away. TWP wholly reneged on the deal they offered the RFL. more TV money and more players....

If you or anyone wants to have a proper grown up, insult free debate on this let me know where the Canadian TV money and players are that were promised?

[The Future is League]

For this weeks games i would go for wins for the Red Devils, the Wolfpack , Toulouse and the Rhinos.

[JohnM]

11 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

Whoa now.  Barnsley is at the end of the earth.  Any farther you fall off the edge

Thats totally untrue. 

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Mind you, you can see the end of the earth from Barnsley.