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NZ Test Series - ticket sales

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26 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Would it be better if the stadium was full and England lost?

To answer your question seriously.

They are not totally independent, although performances can affect crowds.

But, I would expect Bennett to be focusing on the field and sales and marketing off it.

Whilst that semi final loss in 2013 was probably the most heart breaking game of RL most of us will have been at, there is no doubt that it was a special occasion on and off it. 

A problem is that if we have a good team but get low crowds watching then we risk these events not happening at all. Look how difficult it is getting the Aussies to host us.

Surely we want a winning team in front of full houses?

Oh, and maybe in a nice kit.

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Just now, Dave T said:

To answer your question seriously.

They are not totally independent, although performances can affect crowds.

But, I would expect Bennett to be focusing on the field and sales and marketing off it.

Whilst that semi final loss in 2013 was probably the most heart breaking game of RL most of us will have been at, there is no doubt that it was a special occasion on and off it. 

A problem is that if we have a good team but get low crowds watching then we risk these events not happening at all. Look how difficult it is getting the Aussies to host us.

Surely we want a winning team in front of full houses?

Oh, and maybe in a nice kit.

A consistently good, winning team will increase gates. You will get the thousands of latent RL fans, plus the hangers on who will follow anything with England on the badge as long as it is winning.

I take your point about the crowd having some influence on the result, but that effect is minscule compared to having a good team on the pitch.

I don't understand what English crowds have to do with the Australian antipathy towards international RL though. Surely that is because the Australians have stuffed us inside out for the last 40 years, and their supporters don't want to turn up to watch another thrashing. The only way to increase interest in that case is to be competitive on the field.

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1 hour ago, Jim Prendle said:

A consistently good, winning team will increase gates. You will get the thousands of latent RL fans, plus the hangers on who will follow anything with England on the badge as long as it is winning.

I take your point about the crowd having some influence on the result, but that effect is minscule compared to having a good team on the pitch.

I don't understand what English crowds have to do with the Australian antipathy towards international RL though. Surely that is because the Australians have stuffed us inside out for the last 40 years, and their supporters don't want to turn up to watch another thrashing. The only way to increase interest in that case is to be competitive on the field.

The point about the Aussies is that they struggle to get great crowds (for different reasons as you highlight) but the outcome would be the same - the events not being staged.

A perfect example of this is the RLWC. In 1995 we had some hugely positive signs that to would embrace an extended international game. In 2000 it bombed and the International game went backwards. We went into Our shell,  no World Cup for 8 years and GB reverted to playing Ashes in small grounds in the North to consolidate. The international game was hurt by the 2000 tournament and went backwards before being confident enough to move forwards again.

Example 2. The 2008 WC was a solid success. 2013 a resounding success, 2017 much less so, failing to hit it's financial projections. On the back of this we are again seeing some retraction - no more talk of this 8 team comp. Aussies nervous about staging internationals - they just staged one in New Zealand!

Example 3 - a lower than expected crowd in Denver is likely to kill the 2025 US world cup stone dead.

Crowds, commercials and tv deals are the lifeblood of these events and international growth. Even if England are amazing, if we can't pay the bills we won't have a team to watch (melodramatic I know).

The above is why I care about the fact the RFL have delivered a tournament that has seen a crowd decline of 15 to 20% since the previous one three years ago.

Edited by Dave T
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13 hours ago, RLX111 said:

If you want seats closer to the action-Hovering over the sold outs in the john charles stand 2 bays have 20 odd and 30 odd seats available close to front.

I know that what I am doing is peddling even more hens teeth being pulled, but... Does this new ability to look diagramatically and easily see on line to see the options available for seats, well does it put people off from picking from those available??

Certainly the converse, the owners limiting the availability, seems to put people off.

Just curious.

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5 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

I know that what I am doing is peddling even more hens teeth being pulled, but... Does this new ability to look diagramatically and easily see on line to see the options available for seats, well does it put people off from picking from those available??

Certainly the converse, the owners limiting the availability, seems to put people off.

Just curious.

My feeling is that by posting I am alerting people to gaps and giving them a better option-it would be better if they removed the sold out from the 2 bays.

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5 minutes ago, RLX111 said:

My feeling is that by posting I am alerting people to gaps and giving them a better option-it would be better if they removed the sold out from the 2 bays.

I am not commenting at all specifically about your point or anyones.  Just  curious about the general modern methodology of booking tickets. 

But your particular point is definitely valid... If it is NOT sold out, the why announce that it is?

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2 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

A consistently good, winning team will increase gates. You will get the thousands of latent RL fans, plus the hangers on who will follow anything with England on the badge as long as it is winning.

I take your point about the crowd having some influence on the result, but that effect is minscule compared to having a good team on the pitch.

I don't understand what English crowds have to do with the Australian antipathy towards international RL though. Surely that is because the Australians have stuffed us inside out for the last 40 years, and their supporters don't want to turn up to watch another thrashing. The only way to increase interest in that case is to be competitive on the field.

I would say that consistent home games is probably just as important when it comes to gates as a winning team. The team can be excellent but if it doesn't play at home for 2 years then it will count for little.

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30 minutes ago, Damien said:

I would say that consistent home games is probably just as important when it comes to gates as a winning team. The team can be excellent but if it doesn't play at home for 2 years then it will count for little.

Agree with that, if we knew every year we’d have x internationals at a certain time even without the opponent we could build some habits amongst supporters (see RU’s autumn internationals)

e.g every June France away ... a few years in you would soon get England’s fans making an annual trip. 

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https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/over-30000-expected-for-elland-road-test-as-more-tickets-are-released/

Good to see that we're on course for a decent crowd this Sunday. But I've found it strange throughout the series that we keep referring to "the x best crowd for a test against New Zealand outside of London".

It's as though not holding a test in London is some kind of mitigation for poor crowds elsewhere, when this was the RFL's choice.

I know this has no doubt been raised before, but considering that history consistently shows that our best international crowds are in London, then maybe it would have been a decent idea to hold a test there?

And then, maybe a test there again the year after. And every year going forward!

Edited by Chris22
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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

I am not commenting at all specifically about your point or anyones.  Just  curious about the general modern methodology of booking tickets. 

But your particular point is definitely valid... If it is NOT sold out, the why announce that it is?

The blocks mentioned look to have had a couple of dozen returns - i.e. the RFL had no tickets left at one point but now they do. It's nothing major and probably not worth updating the graphic for although they might.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

I would say that consistent home games is probably just as important when it comes to gates as a winning team. The team can be excellent but if it doesn't play at home for 2 years then it will count for little.

There are good examples of international teams losing but getting good crowds. 

With England RL we have an example of crowds going down despite the team being better.

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32 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/over-30000-expected-for-elland-road-test-as-more-tickets-are-released/

Good to see that we're on course for a decent crowd this Sunday. But I've found it strange throughout the series that we keep referring to "the x best crowd for a test against New Zealand outside of London".

I know this has no doubt been raised before, but considering that history consistently shows that our best international crowds are in London, then maybe it would have been a decent idea to hold a test there?

And then, maybe a test there again the year after. And every year going forward!

It is a weird thing to say. In 110 years of tests v NZ it has never matched the half a dozen times NZ tests have been taken to the capital. Is this something to celebrate or actually telling us something about International sport and its wider appeal?

Edited by Scubby

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16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

There are good examples of international teams losing but getting good crowds. 

With England RL we have an example of crowds going down despite the team being better.

I honestly can't believe I've got out of the habit of going to England internationals. But 3 of the last 5 I have attended have been in London and the last one in 2016. Last year no-one got to go to a home international and perhaps the same next year. IMO this has a knock on effect with gaining sponsorship for internationals, revenues from merchandise and buy in from TV and advertisers. Why promote international RL if it can't promote itself. 

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19 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I honestly can't believe I've got out of the habit of going to England internationals. But 3 of the last 5 I have attended have been in London and the last one in 2016. Last year no-one got to go to a home international and perhaps the same next year. IMO this has a knock on effect with gaining sponsorship for internationals, revenues from merchandise and buy in from TV and advertisers. Why promote international RL if it can't promote itself. 

That is the main problem, we just don't play enough international games. There are footballers, RU players and cricketers with 100-150 caps. An RL player is a veteran with 30. 

There's no time to build history or rivalry or stories, no time to engage or become a fan when international RL consists of 3.or 4 games at the end of the season if you are lucky

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23 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I honestly can't believe I've got out of the habit of going to England internationals. But 3 of the last 5 I have attended have been in London and the last one in 2016. Last year no-one got to go to a home international and perhaps the same next year. IMO this has a knock on effect with gaining sponsorship for internationals, revenues from merchandise and buy in from TV and advertisers. Why promote international RL if it can't promote itself

Shame the leaders can't all see this.................too much self interest

Edited by DoubleD
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8 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Shame the leaders can't all see this.................too much self interest

Tell me about it mate. I crack jokes about England mugs but it is actually a fair point. The RFL closed their in-house online store probably because it was too much hassle and they were understaffed. Sums it up really.

Cure for that is play no games or only every other year. Demand for merchandise will be low because people get out of the habit. There are fans like me who are only interested in big events, internationals etc. I enjoy the club game but am not pining to go to Cas or Warrington or Salford. Yet I am willing to put £100s into the game if they give me a reason to spend it.

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too true. I loved the WC 2013, we didn't build on that. I loved last years WC we didn't build on that it seems. This series has been great and leaves you wanting more but we still don't know what is happening next, likely not that much before the next world cup in 3 years, or certainly not enough top tier test matches.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Tell me about it mate. I crack jokes about England mugs but it is actually a fair point. The RFL closed their in-house online store probably because it was too much hassle and they were understaffed. Sums it up really.

Cure for that is play no games or only every other year. Demand for merchandise will be low because people get out of the habit. There are fans like me who are only interested in big events, internationals etc. I enjoy the club game but am not pining to go to Cas or Warrington or Salford. Yet I am willing to put £100s into the game if they give me a reason to spend it. 

Ditto. I am now looking to do some corporate hospitality for our customers and am looking at when next to do an International RL match...................there might not be any homes games next year. It's a joke. Our company does Murrayfield 6 Nations every year, has a box at Anfield and Old Trafford but I wanted to introduce International RL to it from a purely selfish point of view but it's like I'm swimming against the tide

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1 hour ago, Chris22 said:

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/over-30000-expected-for-elland-road-test-as-more-tickets-are-released/

Good to see that we're on course for a decent crowd this Sunday. But I've found it strange throughout the series that we keep referring to "the x best crowd for a test against New Zealand outside of London".

I know this has no doubt been raised before, but considering that history consistently shows that our best international crowds are in London, then maybe it would have been a decent idea to hold a test there?

And then, maybe a test there again the year after. And every year going forward!

Its not exactly rocket science is it? Also outside of the fact London usually gets the largest international crowds people totally overlook the importance of more regular international games and wider benefits to the sport.

For example we are looking to raise crowds for the Challenge Cup Final, more big events in London would create more cross marketing opportunities of said events and someone going to an international could equally by attracted to then go to the Challenge Cup Final, which they may not have been aware of otherwise. The increased PR and engagement with a wider audience creates countless opportunities like this.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

That is the main problem, we just don't play enough international games.

While I do think that the RL administrators could do better in that respect, it has to be said that there is a lack of teams to play against.

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2 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

While I do think that the RL administrators could do better in that respect, it has to be said that there is a lack of teams to play against.

I think there are enough for a decent variation  while we grow.

Australia, NZ, Tonga, Fiji will all give England a decent game, France, Samoa, PNG and italy with their heritage players aren't that far behind.

If it was really any issue you could look at a PI rep side to add another.

7-10 internationals is the bare minimum that should be being played before we can say we have a functioning international game 

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6 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

While I do think that the RL administrators could do better in that respect, it has to be said that there is a lack of teams to play against.

This stuff takes effort and a will to execute. If all the wasted effort for GB could have created a home 4N with Australia, Tonga, NZ/Fra/Sam, England then we would all be very excited about 2019. We could also book some huge venues!

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7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I think there are enough for a decent variation  while we grow.

Yes, I was meaning not enough teams when you look at the financial viability of the matches.

I know it's the done thing on here sometimes to make the RFL out to be idiots, but there has to be a reason why, for example, in the ten years since England replaced Great Britain, we have played:

Scotland x 1

Ireland x 1

Wales x 4

That's six matches against three of our nearest neighbours, in ten years, and several of them were in world cup/four nations, so they weren't even matches that we organised as such.

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