Canada RL on Toronto Wolfpack

[The Parksider]

Bob Jowett  is now President of the Canadian RL association, Jowett lives in Canada now but originally came from Bradford where he played the game for Dudley Hill and later Huddersfield.

Jowett feels TWP missing promotion was a good thing as he felt they could have come straight back down thus destroying a lot of the momentum they have built up. Whilst Jowett is a fan of the club, and impressed with their promotional side of the game there, he's understandably not too pleased on the club's development side of the game.

On the subject of "possible" new North American clubs Jowett comments that "There's been lot's of talk but nothing concrete". Confirming it's all hot air.

On the subject of Canadian Rugby Union Bob notes that the Union game there, and in Toronto "have big well established competitions...a new professional Union club in Toronto...who will be playing  in the fledgling USA pro-league next year". He notes all the local sports congratulated Wolfpack on their success in the RFL except Union. Despite that Bob laments that TWP seem to be focusing on "Ontario Rugby Union", and largely ignoring Canada Rugby League. He tells the story of how "We had a Canada RL tent at Lamport trying to drum up support for us". Bob saw David Argyle approaching and thought he'd sign up as a member and give them a media opportunity. "He just literally ran straight past".

Bob was also upset that the "Georgina Griffins" the Toronto areas first junior RL club asked TWP if they could send round players to promote the club. Twice they promised to do this and both times cancelled leaving Bob "despairing" of their lack of effort to  "grow community RL in Ontario, if we don't do that it (TWP and RL) is not sustainable". He says "I am not sure they realise that long term they are going to need people playing the sport"..."When it comes to their mantra putting rugby balls in (as many) kids hands (as possible), it's a big round number and it's not more than one".  A pretty damning verdict.

Bob says "People think we (Canada RL) must get a lot of help from TWP but sadly that is not true". "I have to say we don't get any support from the Wolfpack"

My own view is that TWP have never shown any interest at all in developing the game, despite people making apologies for them. Perez's grid iron conversion plan was just taking the mickey. Now the truth comes from the horses mouth it's worth people thinking again about TWP. My own view is well known, I only note that if Mr. Argyle is more happy to talk to Ontario Rugby Union and London Skolars Rugby League,  and is ducking Canada RL, this may indicate Argylles future moves when it comes to the end of the "five year plan" Bob notes.  Does he go to London RL or even Canada Rugby Union!!

[dealwithit]

TWP should be doing more with CRLA. 

You should note, Parksider, that Perez is no longer involved in the day to day operations. Sure he has a minor share, but one would think a fall out occurred with Argyle and himself. 

Argyle is a union man. The ties to ORU should be no surprise. 

[JohnM]

It's all hot air.? 

Unusualy positive for you. Mr P.  Why not "cold air" ?

[thirteenthman]

I saw this yesterday and it's an interesting read. It's always good to get an alternative point of view. 

I know our friends in Canada have long said that the differences between RL and RU don't exist to the same extent in their country, but this whole business of the Wolfpack partnering with Canadian RU has always concerned me. The concept of putting a rugby ball in kids hands is great, but not much use to RL if what they're playing is RU. 

[Davo5]

Let me guess,Bob's your uncle.

Considering you've been telling us for 2 yrs that there is no RL played in Canada you've done well to find someone that is involved and it does give you a new stick to use after the Lenaghan and Rimmer ones broke.

[East Coast Tiger]

I’m sure slagging them off publically will achieve a lot.

Seems like another useless administrator. Perez built Canada RL up and since he left it’s gone nowhere. And with this bloke in charge I can’t  see much hope for it. As if he would have any idea what Perez or Argyle are doing. I’d say he’s just ensured his tiny amateur organisation won’t  be getting any help from the biggest and only professional RL entity on the continent. You can count the number of clubs in Canada on your fingers and they play less than 10 games per season. It’s almost non-existent.

Their best hope is TWP succeeding and generating interest in the sport and the hide of the OP who wants TWP dead to feign concern for Canada RL is laughable.

[Yorkshire Knight]

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

if we don't do that it (TWP and RL) is not sustainable". He says "I am not sure they realise that long term they are going to need people playing the sport"

I've made this exact same point on this forum before. I don't know how people think that a pro team with no grassroots development is sustainable. Every other sport has focused on developing the lower levels first before establishing a pro team. Yet here we come along and think that it's sustainable without hard work in grassroots. Happy that it came straight from the horse's mouth 

[Exiled Wiganer]

The Argiyle model is sustainable indefinitely, as he is spending his loose change on the game. I had to laugh at Parky - I hope everything outside my own back yard curls up and dies - feigns such concern. As for trollo joining in, as night follows day... where is gluefax to put us back in our box? 

[Chamey]

2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

On the subject of Canadian Rugby Union Bob notes that the Union game there, and in Toronto "have big well established competitions...a new professional Union club in Toronto...who will be playing  in the fledgling USA pro-league next year". He notes all the local sports congratulated Wolfpack on their success in the RFL except Union. Despite that Bob laments that TWP seem to be focusing on "Ontario Rugby Union", and largely ignoring Canada Rugby League. He tells the story of how "We had a Canada RL tent at Lamport trying to drum up support for us". Bob saw David Argyle approaching and thought he'd sign up as a member and give them a media opportunity. "He just literally ran straight past".

Bob was also upset that the "Georgina Griffins" the Toronto areas first junior RL club asked TWP if they could send round players to promote the club. Twice they promised to do this and both times cancelled leaving Bob "despairing" of their lack of effort to  "grow community RL in Ontario, if we don't do that it (TWP and RL) is not sustainable". He says "I am not sure they realise that long term they are going to need people playing the sport"..."When it comes to their mantra putting rugby balls in (as many) kids hands (as possible), it's a big round number and it's not more than one".  A pretty damning verdict.

Bob says "People think we (Canada RL) must get a lot of help from TWP but sadly that is not true". "I have to say we don't get any support from the Wolfpack"

My own view is that TWP have never shown any interest at all in developing the game, despite people making apologies for them. Perez's grid iron conversion plan was just taking the mickey. Now the truth comes from the horses mouth it's worth people thinking again about TWP. My own view is well known, I only note that if Mr. Argyle is more happy to talk to Ontario Rugby Union and London Skolars Rugby League,  and is ducking Canada RL, this may indicate Argylles future moves when it comes to the end of the "five year plan" Bob notes.  Does he go to London RL or even Canada Rugby Union!!

I mean the ORU promoted the MPG game on twitter: 

Toronto congratulated Ontario Arrows RU on winning v New England RU:

Ontario Arrows congratulated TWP on getting to the MPG, and promoted the game:

What more does he want from the RU community?

As for the rest of it, CRL's been jaunted for a competitor (ORU), so no wonder he's a bit sour.

Also have a little look at the below twitter handles and bios:

Rugby Ontario, @RugbyOntario. Description: 'We are the home of rugby in #Ontario, #Canada! Follow for latest news on rugby in our province. #BackYourBlues | #GrowingTheGame'

Ontario Arrows Rugby Club, @OntarioArrows. Description: 'The official Twitter page of the Ontario Arrows Rugby Club, Canada's first privately-funded elite-calibre rugby team.'

Toronto Wolfpack, @TOWolfpack. Description: 'Toronto Wolfpack are the world’s first transatlantic professional sports team. We believe the world is a better place with more rugby balls in kids’ hands.'

While both club bios make inaccurate claims (TWP were the first privately funded elite rugby team in Canada, but the Jaguars were the world's first pro transatlantic rugby team), there are two words that are nowhere in sight, any guesses what?

[deluded pom?]

45 minutes ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Every other sport has focused on developing the lower levels first before establishing a pro team.

Of course they do. There were thousands of people ice skating around Hull before they even built an ice rink and started a professional ice hockey team. Not.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Chamey said:

I mean the ORU promoted the MPG game on twitter: 

Toronto congratulated Ontario Arrows RU on winning v New England RU:

Ontario Arrows congratulated TWP on getting to the MPG, and promoted the game:

What more does he want from the RU community?

As for the rest of it, CRL's been jaunted for a competitor (ORU), so no wonder he's a bit sour.

Also have a little look at the below twitter handles and bios:

Rugby Ontario, @RugbyOntario. Description: 'We are the home of rugby in #Ontario, #Canada! Follow for latest news on rugby in our province. #BackYourBlues | #GrowingTheGame'

Ontario Arrows Rugby Club, @OntarioArrows. Description: 'The official Twitter page of the Ontario Arrows Rugby Club, Canada's first privately-funded elite-calibre rugby team.'

Toronto Wolfpack, @TOWolfpack. Description: 'Toronto Wolfpack are the world’s first transatlantic professional sports team. We believe the world is a better place with more rugby balls in kids’ hands.'

While both club bios make inaccurate claims (TWP were the first privately funded elite rugby team in Canada, but the Jaguars were the world's first pro transatlantic rugby team), there are two words that are nowhere in sight, any guesses what?

Different codes so effectively they are both correct.

[Chamey]

3 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Different codes so effectively they are both correct.

TWP claims to be the world's first transatlantic sports team, it's not a rugby exclusive claim. Also I'd at least argue that when you say rugby you include both forms.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Chamey said:

What more does he want from the RU community?

As for the rest of it, CRL's been jaunted for a competitor (ORU), so no wonder he's a bit sour.

Also have a little look at the below twitter handles and bios:

Rugby Ontario, @RugbyOntario. Description: 'We are the home of rugby in #Ontario, #Canada! Follow for latest news on rugby in our province. #BackYourBlues | #GrowingTheGame'

Ontario Arrows Rugby Club, @OntarioArrows. Description: 'The official Twitter page of the Ontario Arrows Rugby Club, Canada's first privately-funded elite-calibre rugby team.'

Beware of Greeks bearing Gifts!

Surely you know the story of Helen, Paris, Hector and a big Wooden Horse don't you?

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

2 hours ago, East Coast Tiger said:

Perez built Canada RL up and since he left it’s gone nowhere.

I know a few people in Canada who would not agree with that.

Don't confuse PR with History.

We seem to be writing a few names out of the history of Canadian RL.

Jamie Lester and Paul O Keefe all made significant contributions to growing the game.

One of the great crimes in what has gone unnoticed in Canadian Rugby League before the Wolfpack.

Games in Hawaii, player development , work in British Columbia and Alberta, the Women's game, the success at the 9s back in 2014.

Work with the Canadian armed forces in Europe.

People should watch 'the founder' when it comes to who created what in life.

How people see facts from different perspectives.

 

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

Every other sport has focused on developing the lower levels first before establishing a pro team. 

No. That is incorrect.

[Lowdesert]

2 hours ago, Yorkshire Knight said:

I've made this exact same point on this forum before. I don't know how people think that a pro team with no grassroots development is sustainable. Every other sport has focused on developing the lower levels first before establishing a pro team. Yet here we come along and think that it's sustainable without hard work in grassroots. Happy that it came straight from the horse's mouth 

RL didn't start at grassroots, they started as adults in a breakaway from RU.  No under9s I'm afraid.

 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

2 hours ago, deluded pom? said:

Of course they do. There were thousands of people ice skating around Hull before they even built an ice rink and started a professional ice hockey team. Not.

But is that not the issue with imported sports without grass roots they are mere fads?

Baseball, Ice Hockey, Basketball and American Football has all had spells of popularity in Manchester.

But without grass roots interest they soon disappear.

Toronto will have to experience a losing spell and is the connection to the game strong enough to support a losing team.

Its easy to promote and watch a winning team.  Trying to promote\market a losing team is no easy sell.

That's when your grass roots start to kick in.

Its a lot easier to get a gate with a team full of local talent and a supporting network of local clubs, schools etc.

 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

18 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

RL didn't start at grassroots, they started as adults in a breakaway from RU.  No under9s I'm afraid.

 

The senior clubs broke away but less documented is so did all the other clubs.

Back then junior rugby most likely didn't exist, but its not true to say the grass roots didn't breakaway.

See Rugby's Great Split by Tony Collins page 166.

He writes about the whole of Rugby Union in the North apart from a few clubs linked to private schools going over Wholesale.

 

 

[deluded pom?]

26 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

But is that not the issue with imported sports without grass roots they are mere fads?

Baseball, Ice Hockey, Basketball and American Football has all had spells of popularity in Manchester.

But without grass roots interest they soon disappear.

Toronto will have to experience a losing spell and is the connection to the game strong enough to support a losing team.

Its easy to promote and watch a winning team.  Trying to promote\market a losing team is no easy sell.

That's when your grass roots start to kick in.

Its a lot easier to get a gate with a team full of local talent and a supporting network of local clubs, schools etc.

 

I was pointing out to YK that not "every other sport has focused on developing the lower levels first before establishing a pro team".

[Loup]

David Argyle allegedly "walked by a tent" in the beer garden and this has set off Jowett and subsequently, Canadian Rugby Union's newest fan, Parky?

Argyle is all over Lamport Stadium during a game. He travels by the tents in the beer garden multiple times all game long, doesn't stop to buy a beer at each one.

Mountain, meet molehill.

[CanadianRugger]

Parky out looking for the smoking gun again!

[Kayakman]

3 hours ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

 

Toronto will have to experience a losing spell and is the connection to the game strong enough to support a losing team.

 

Never going to happen with our outstanding ownership, magnificent  management, phenomenal fan base and happy and committed players.  You must have us confused with Leigh again.

[Oxford]

8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Bob Jowett  is now President

Good post Parky but why did you feel the need to mention yawn yet again they're barely relevant to life never mind your post.

So TWP got some things right and some things wrong, fit right is with SL clubs then, won't they?

[CanaBull]

The posts from the CRL President were not taken lightly, of that you can be assured, more a lack of options.  Whilst it’s undeniable that CRLA has had its administrative struggles over the past year or two which certainly need to be addressed, and look to be being addressed now that Bob Jowett has been elected, numerous approaches have been made from them and the Ontario RL to the Wolfpack, most of which have not even been responded to.

It’s not about financing or looking for handouts, but basic cooperation and mutually supporting strategy toward growth, which of course can’t be done if the big side of the equation isn’t communicating or giving reasons why they’re not communicating.

It’s also necessary to point out that Scott Lidbury, Commercial GM for the Wolfpack was rightly praised for his collaboration efforts with the CRLA but can only do so much as he isn’t privy to development plans.  He has helped to arrange what has been done for CRLA at Wolfpack games, notably the recognition for Jamie Lester at the Widnes game.

The disappointing thing for me is the lack of support for the Wolverines for the World Cup qualifiers; very little, if anything, on social media from the Wolfpack let alone coaching and conditioning support from the rugby league professionals.  I can’t think of anything which would inspire more kids to pick up a rugby ball than Canada being in a World Cup with the mighty Wolfpack cheering them on.

From my point of view, more Wolfpack fans are getting involved with the CRLA and grass roots which is great to see, the CRLA Supporters Club is up and running now $30CAD to join so please do if you can spare some funds.  What’s interesting are the grass roots questions from new Wolfpack fans are being fielded by CRLA/ORL or existing people and players involved at that level so hopefully with a bit more coordination their volunteer skills will help with the shortfall in some of the areas where the CRLA has struggled lately.

I hope that further strengthening within the CRLA will mean the Wolfpack being a more visible partner and champion for grass roots, but without knowing what plans they have it’s hard for anyone to contribute in a coordinated fashion.  This could backfire but new fans have slowly been becoming aware of grass roots difficulties so will hopefully provide some impetus to the Wolfpack to publish something workable regarding development.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

4 hours ago, deluded pom? said:

I was pointing out to YK that not "every other sport has focused on developing the lower levels first before establishing a pro team".

Thats a valid point. But long term i still think you need grass roots work.