Independent Group

[Private Baldrick]

They will be wiped out in any election.

[RidingPie]

1 minute ago, Private Baldrick said:

They will be wiped out in any election.

Probably, but I always tend to have respect for people who stand up for what they believe in even if it means the end of their career. 

It’s why I’ve got some respect for May as well. 

[DavidM]

Change UK ... chuk . The chukites. Chuka should be leader to fit in nicely 

[Private Baldrick]

11 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

Probably, but I always tend to have respect for people who stand up for what they believe in even if it means the end of their career. 

It’s why I’ve got some respect for May as well. 

Indeed, and that could be levelled at all sides in the Brexit debate, the DUP in their principles of the union, ERG (the ones not flip flopping) saying the deal isn't a true Brexit, people like Lammy etc. I prefer people with principles over opportunists any day of the week.

 

[Vambo]

[Griff9of13]

39 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I’m never sure about Heidi Allen . She’s great at PR and presenting a certain image but her voting record at times was at odds with things she said , and she did follow the party line . I’ve got the public sector pay cap in mind for one when she was very vociferous until push came to shove I believe 

That's the whipping process for you. 99% of MPs will follow team orders, especially the ones like her who, at the time you refer to, were very new to being an MP. They would have been told in no uncertain terms how bad for their careers breaking the whip would be.

[DavidM]

2 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

That's the whipping process for you. 99% of MPs will follow team orders, especially the ones like her who, at the time you refer to, were very new to being an MP. They would have been told in no uncertain terms how bad for their careers breaking the whip would be.

And that’s the party political system we have I guess . It’s a trade off between principle and party loyalty given the ticket you were elected on . And personal ambition . So often you hear I don’t support this or that , but I’ll vote with my party for it 

[GeordieSaint]

37 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

Probably, but I always tend to have respect for people who stand up for what they believe in even if it means the end of their career. 

It’s why I’ve got some respect for May as well. 

Nick Boles is another. He even said his Parliamentary career was over at the next election.

[DavidM]

They’re trying to get Grieve out to

[RidingPie]

35 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

Indeed, and that could be levelled at all sides in the Brexit debate, the DUP in their principles of the union, ERG (the ones not flip flopping) saying the deal isn't a true Brexit, people like Lammy etc. I prefer people with principles over opportunists any day of the week.

 

The difference is that most of those you mentioned haven’t put their entire career on the line like I said, The PM definitely has and so have the Tig’ers. 

The ERG and DUP haven’t. 

[Shadow]

https://www.afternic.com/forsale/changeuk.com?utm_source=TDFS_DASLNC&utm_medium=DASLNC&utm_campaign=TDFS_DASLNC&traffic_type=TDFS_DASLNC&traffic_id=daslnc&

just saying...

[JohnM]

16 hours ago, Griff9of13 said:

That's the whipping process for you. 99% of MPs will follow team orders, especially the ones like her who, at the time you refer to, were very new to being an MP. They would have been told in no uncertain terms how bad for their careers breaking the whip would be.

Whips trying to ensure that MPs elected on a party manifesto stick to what they promised at election time. How very dare they. 

[RidingPie]

1 minute ago, JohnM said:

Whips trying to ensure that MPs elected on a party manifesto stick to what they promised at election time. How very dare they. 

Only as most of the government acknowledged the last few governments haven’t followed their manifesto and opposition manifestos are pretty much chip wrappings 

[Oxford]

16 hours ago, DavidM said:

They’re trying to get Grieve out to

Well, they don't want someone with a sense of morality and a conscience muddying the waters, do they?

 

11 minutes ago, RidingPie said:

governments haven’t followed their manifesto and opposition manifestos are pretty much chip wrappings 

Promisary notes, IOU's and chits and what we now call a Shaun Edwards!

Paper, printed, on, not worth, the, they're! A good summary of the British Constitution really!

[GeordieSaint]

But can they pull in the voters?

 

[ckn]

58 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

But can they pull in the voters?

 

I’ll be voting for them if they stick a reasonable set of candidates up for MEP. As long as they’re fairly centrist and haven’t been in association with vile groups then they’ve got my vote as a leap of faith. 

[Oxford]

Worked out well in France so why not?

[tim2]

9 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Worked out well in France so why not?

Sarcasm doesn't work in print.

Macron's rise was almost too meteoric. The one thing it did was, for now, prevent the FN being elected. The traditional left/right parties in France were a mess and I'm not sure they've sorted themselves out yet.

[Oxford]

22 hours ago, tim2 said:

Sarcasm doesn't work in print.

Macron's rise was almost too meteoric. The one thing it did was, for now, prevent the FN being elected. The traditional left/right parties in France were a mess and I'm not sure they've sorted themselves out yet.

Sarcasm?

I think the story above sounds familiar. I don't remember where it was the two tradtional parties might be in a mess were though, give me a minute, it'll come to me. Right there on the tip of my tongue!

I wonder if the UK will reject the NF the way France did???????

[Oxford]

Blank sounds about right that ..

" But the commission said there was “not enough time for us to consider it before the elections” and “there will be a blank space” next to candidates names on ballot papers.  "

 

[Private Baldrick]

Interesting to find out on Question Time last night that this brand new political force that is out to change UK politics for the better is not fielding a candidate at the forthcoming Peterborough by-election. 

The bold new political party, having had numerous name changes, failed to have a logo endorsed and so is brandless, failed to put their own defector M.P's up for a second 'peoples vote' in their own constituencies (remember, people can change their minds in a democracy from how they first voted when the facts are known) have now failed in their first domestic electoral test by failing to put up a candidate in a by-election. 

Looks to me like this bold new party is the same old incompetence.

[nadera78]

I don't think Change have got off to a good start at all. Some of them are learning there's a big difference between being an MP with a profile and having the organisational skills to run a party.

That said, the Peterborough situation is more complex. Change, Libs and Greens agreed to step aside and let one pro-Remain candidate stand. That candidate being Femi Oluwole from the Our Future Our Choice campaign group. Hours before the deadline, it appears, Labour got in touch with him and threatened to derail the entire Remain campaign if he stood against the Labour candidate in Peterborough. So he pulled out. And now it's too late to replace him.

Got to love the Brexit-loving Labour leadership. Straight talking, honest politics.

[Private Baldrick]

19 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

I don't think Change have got off to a good start at all. Some of them are learning there's a big difference between being an MP with a profile and having the organisational skills to run a party.

That said, the Peterborough situation is more complex. Change, Libs and Greens agreed to step aside and let one pro-Remain candidate stand. That candidate being Femi Oluwole from the Our Future Our Choice campaign group. Hours before the deadline, it appears, Labour got in touch with him and threatened to derail the entire Remain campaign if he stood against the Labour candidate in Peterborough. So he pulled out. And now it's too late to replace him.

Got to love the Brexit-loving Labour leadership. Straight talking, honest politics.

Aw diddums!

The big scary man from the Labour Party said a nasty thing to good old Femi so he ran away and hid. Jeez, this is politics for crying out loud, people will say nasty things about you in a campaign.

If the Greens and Lib Dems are now fielding their own candidates, how come Change didn't have a 'reserve' candidate to put up? More incompetence?

[nadera78]

1 minute ago, Private Baldrick said:

Aw diddums!

The big scary man from the Labour Party said a nasty thing to good old Femi so he ran away and hid. Jeez, this is politics for crying out loud, people will say nasty things about you in a campaign.

If the Greens and Lib Dems are now fielding their own candidates, how come Change didn't have a 'reserve' candidate to put up? More incompetence?

It's not about being nasty to Femi, it's about derailing the entire remain campaign. Which is obviously his priority.

I'm not a Change member so won't be defending them, and haven't at all in the post you quoted. But carry on.

[Private Baldrick]

So rather than stand up for his principles and beliefs, the Change candidate simply crumbled and threw in his lot. Didn't it occur to him/them of the political capital they could have made by exposing the Labour threats, especially on the magnitude of derailing the WHOLE remain campaign? They could have had a field day.

(nadera 78, reply optional)