WHATS GOING ON AT ODSAL

[meast]

1 hour ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

that last comment was a fair one , but I don't like to kick them when they're down 

Me neither really, unless it's a case of "what goes around, comes around".

[meast]

58 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Wait, clubs should only be allowed to advertise within their own postcodes? 

I can't possibly see why a club trying to promote themselves to new fans should be something to criticise.

Because they were actively and deliberately promoting and pushing themselves into other clubs' catchment area's, knowing full well these clubs were themselves struggling, you think it's fair game for a big club to drain the market for themselves?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

3 minutes ago, meast said:

Because they were actively and deliberately promoting and pushing themselves into other clubs' catchment area's, knowing full well these clubs were themselves struggling, you think it's fair game for a big club to drain the market for themselves?

So these clubs were struggling to get fans from their areas, but this other club weren't?

I absolutely think it's fair game, yes. It's survival of the fittest. Why should rugby league leave an area to be serviced by a struggling poor club and prevent a bigger more successful club from actually promoting the game there?

 

[gingerjon]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

But not as good as Bradford Bulls does. 

There must be something sinister underlying the surface that we the public are not privvy to, with the so called latent potential awaiting to surface, what is the real reason that no rich guy who has money to spare and wants a hobby isn't intrested or can't  be enticed?

It's a fair observation.

Bradford Bulls have a whole lot going for them that most other clubs would be desperate to have - not least a very successful and well-supported period that ended less than a decade ago. How is that they seem completely unable to recover in any meaningful sense?

[paul hicks]

Any truth in the rumour that Bradford have asked Leeds if they can ground share .

 

[hindle xiii]

27 minutes ago, meast said:

Me neither really, unless it's a case of "what goes around, comes around".

Karma. I call house on bitter Giants bingo.

It's been a decade and a half and what you think may not have happened anyway. Chill out.

[whatmichaelsays]

40 minutes ago, meast said:

Because they were actively and deliberately promoting and pushing themselves into other clubs' catchment area's, knowing full well these clubs were themselves struggling, you think it's fair game for a big club to drain the market for themselves?

I think it's fair game in an open market for a business to try and increase its customer base and I don't believe that clubs should be prevented from advertising where they see fit. 

Instead of asking why a rival club is advertising "on your turf", perhaps you should instead ask why your club isn't?

[Konkrete]

Well what a depressing thread...

There are two visible CCJs against the club for £777 and the other for £1,850.  A total of £2,627.  And so far as I understand it these are current contested invoices.  Not a case of being unable to pay, but disputed.  The only reason these small amounts are 'news' is because it's Bradford, and because a throw away comment was made on Forty-20 a couple of weeks ago hinting at the club being in trouble.  We know that there are other clubs with current CCJs but that's not being reported by the RL press because either it's not a big enough story (ie not Bradford) or perhaps there are closer ties between those clubs and the journalists that write the papers, who knows.  It will be interesting to see for instance what prominence is brought to the story of two Halifax directors resigning straight after the cup semi-final (recorded on Monday at Companies House) and the background to that.  It will be interesting to see for instance if the CCJs of the other club(s) are published and discussed with as much glee as ours have.  It'll be interesting for instance to see if any other club salary payment run is openly speculated on without any basis. All these things are damaging to a club that's trying, once more, to get some stability with no sugar daddy to pay for everything.

As for the comments from the Huddersfield fan.  You've been in SL a long time now, and at a time when Bradford have been on the decline.  Yet, you still have a loss making operation, have not built your fan base up - despite winning the LLS in 2013 and having fabulous financial resources, you play in a fantastic stadium that isn't yours and you didn't pay to build, you received £1m to merge with Sheffield which was essentially a RFL cash injection into your books, you continually look to raid our academy, and you failed to spot the incredible talent of Oliver Wilson on your own doorstep.  I could go on... but at the end of the day we're still a club that can get more people attend a shirt and season ticket launch in League 1 than some SL clubs (cough) can get to attend a home game.

 

[meast]

41 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

So these clubs were struggling to get fans from their areas, but this other club weren't?

I absolutely think it's fair game, yes. It's survival of the fittest. Why should rugby league leave an area to be serviced by a struggling poor club and prevent a bigger more successful club from actually promoting the game there?

 

Because ,if i remember, at the time, there was something from the RFL involving catchment areas to try and prevent bigger clubs taking away support from smaller clubs, I can't recall what it was called, basically each club were given boudnaries of where and where not to promote, Bradford encroached onto other clubs' "patches"

There might not be anything wrong per se, but when  we( we as in RL fans collectively)ask why clubs and the game fails etc, there may lie a clue?

[meast]

15 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I think it's fair game in an open market for a business to try and increase its customer base and I don't believe that clubs should be prevented from advertising where they see fit. 

Instead of asking why a rival club is advertising "on your turf", perhaps you should instead ask why your club isn't?

Going back to that period, we tried, but when you're trying to market a team getting battered every year against a team in a different city winning trophies every year , it's a losing battle, you only had to see the amount of Bradford fans packing the buses from Huddersfield to see that.

We have and have had our failings as a club, but as far as I'm aware, apart from having a merger that nobody liked or wanted, or poor support or a really big stadium that we won't ever realistically fill, we pay our way and budget within our means, if that means more crapness, then so be it.

[fieldofclothofgold]

26 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

Any truth in the rumour that Bradford have asked Leeds if they can ground share .

 

That thought struck me ,but I wouldn't think this one has any legs . Although it could be a space to watch if Leeds go down and need revenue 

[meast]

15 minutes ago, Konkrete said:

Well what a depressing thread...

There are two visible CCJs against the club for £777 and the other for £1,850.  A total of £2,627.  And so far as I understand it these are current contested invoices.  Not a case of being unable to pay, but disputed.  The only reason these small amounts are 'news' is because it's Bradford, and because a throw away comment was made on Forty-20 a couple of weeks ago hinting at the club being in trouble.  We know that there are other clubs with current CCJs but that's not being reported by the RL press because either it's not a big enough story (ie not Bradford) or perhaps there are closer ties between those clubs and the journalists that write the papers, who knows.  It will be interesting to see for instance what prominence is brought to the story of two Halifax directors resigning straight after the cup semi-final (recorded on Monday at Companies House) and the background to that.  It will be interesting to see for instance if the CCJs of the other club(s) are published and discussed with as much glee as ours have.  It'll be interesting for instance to see if any other club salary payment run is openly speculated on without any basis. All these things are damaging to a club that's trying, once more, to get some stability with no sugar daddy to pay for everything.

As for the comments from the Huddersfield fan.  You've been in SL a long time now, and at a time when Bradford have been on the decline.  Yet, you still have a loss making operation, have not built your fan base up - despite winning the LLS in 2013 and having fabulous financial resources, you play in a fantastic stadium that isn't yours and you didn't pay to build, you received £1m to merge with Sheffield which was essentially a RFL cash injection into your books, you continually look to raid our academy, and you failed to spot the incredible talent of Oliver Wilson on your own doorstep.  I could go on... but at the end of the day we're still a club that can get more people attend a shirt and season ticket launch in League 1 than some SL clubs (cough) can get to attend a home game.

 

What "fabulous financial resources" then? I'm sure Messrs Davy, Thewlis and the board would love to know so they can tap into it!

As for "Raiding your academy" isn't that the idea of an academy? to produce players good enough to play at higher levels? and don't all teams "raid" other team's academies? ..not to mention the first team players too, what about all the players Wigan, Castleford etc have "raided" from your academy? or, indeed what about the players you've "raided" from our own academy or Leeds' academy, what stupid comments to make.

[RigbyLuger]

33 minutes ago, Konkrete said:

There are two visible CCJs against the club for £777 and the other for £1,850.  A total of £2,627.  And so far as I understand it these are current contested invoices.  Not a case of being unable to pay, but disputed.  The only reason these small amounts are 'news' is because it's Bradford, and because a throw away comment was made on Forty-20 a couple of weeks ago hinting at the club being in trouble.  We know that there are other clubs with current CCJs but that's not being reported by the RL press because either it's not a big enough story (ie not Bradford) or perhaps there are closer ties between those clubs and the journalists that write the papers, who knows.  It will be interesting to see for instance what prominence is brought to the story of two Halifax directors resigning straight after the cup semi-final (recorded on Monday at Companies House) and the background to that.  It will be interesting to see for instance if the CCJs of the other club(s) are published and discussed with as much glee as ours have.  It'll be interesting for instance to see if any other club salary payment run is openly speculated on without any basis. All these things are damaging to a club that's trying, once more, to get some stability with no sugar daddy to pay for everything.

Why doesn't the "journalist" who claims to know the Super League club that has CCJs name them then?

[Konkrete]

15 minutes ago, meast said:

What "fabulous financial resources" then? I'm sure Messrs Davy, Thewlis and the board would love to know so they can tap into it!

As for "Raiding your academy" isn't that the idea of an academy? to produce players good enough to play at higher levels? and don't all teams "raid" other team's academies? ..not to mention the first team players too, what about all the players Wigan, Castleford etc have "raided" from your academy? or, indeed what about the players you've "raided" from our own academy or Leeds' academy, what stupid comments to make.

Davey is the source of your funding. Without his money you’re nowt.  Academy raiding is one of a suite of points aimed at highlighting to you that your own club contributes very little despite having many many advantages. 

For stupid comments see the one about the Bulls stealing your fans.

[meast]

4 minutes ago, Konkrete said:

Davey is the source of your funding. Without his money you’re nowt.  Academy raiding is one of a suite of points aimed at highlighting to you that your own club contributes very little despite having many many advantages. 

For stupid comments see the one about the Bulls stealing your fans.

We're nowt anyway, So Davy ploughs his fortunes into making us a success does he? does he also pour his wealth into marketing and advertising the club? why doesn't he pay for a new 10,000 capacity stadium for us then? no.

And what do other clubs "contribute"? and what is the scale of contribution a club must have for it to be acceptable?

Are you aware of players that have come through our systems over the years? clearly not.

I didn't say Bulls stole any fans, again, just stupid comments.

 

[Exiled Wiganer]

Bradford’s problems, if any are of the Micawber type. There was a thread on another, less good, web site really on which Wigan fans and wrong uns were debating their respective financial positions. Essentially, only Leeds can begin to make a case for being self sustaining come rain or shine. If Moran or Hughes or Davey loved Bradford, none of this would be news. One day someone with super deep pockets will remember the awesome 4some fondly enough and all will be well. 

The club which most intrigues me in a good way on that side is Saints, as they have a group of very wealthy investors who get them through the lean years, but which generates plenty of money to make a profit when they feel like it. That round table of minted investors gives them by far the strongest roots. 

[whatmichaelsays]

56 minutes ago, meast said:

Going back to that period, we tried, but when you're trying to market a team getting battered every year against a team in a different city winning trophies every year , it's a losing battle, you only had to see the amount of Bradford fans packing the buses from Huddersfield to see that.

 We have and have had our failings as a club, but as far as I'm aware, apart from having a merger that nobody liked or wanted, or poor support or a really big stadium that we won't ever realistically fill, we pay our way and budget within our means, if that means more crapness, then so be it.

Just because a team is '######' doesn't mean that they should be protected from a competitor marketing to an audience that said competitor believes it can attract. That a team isn't good enough is nobody's fault but that clubs'. 

To criticise a club for trying to build its own business by attracting people from outside its local area is ridiculous. Should Manchester City be banned from promoting itself in Oldham or Stockport, or be banned from selling shirts in Bury or Leeds?

[Konkrete]

38 minutes ago, meast said:

We're nowt anyway, So Davy ploughs his fortunes into making us a success does he? does he also pour his wealth into marketing and advertising the club? why doesn't he pay for a new 10,000 capacity stadium for us then? no.

And what do other clubs "contribute"? and what is the scale of contribution a club must have for it to be acceptable?

Are you aware of players that have come through our systems over the years? clearly not.

I didn't say Bulls stole any fans, again, just stupid comments.

 

Haters gonna hate.

[Manx RL]

[TrueBull]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Bradford's problem is obvious. The stadium is old and decrepit, it needs not just improvement but a rebuild. Its really expensive to maintain and Bradford cant operate for long periods at the scale of a championship club. 

The window is closing on Bradford getting back to where they were in terms of crowds but even if they were to get there, they would still have huge outlays to make to improve that stadium. 

Bradford are demonstrable proof that the problem isn't clubs don't 'cut their cloth accordingly'. 

Agreed. Over the last few years, a succession of Bradford owners, good, bad and f+_)(*&g shocking have argued with their landlords & owners. The rent seems to be £72k pa. I think that's been bandied about the RL media enough to be in the correct ball park. Previous owners didn't put any clauses in, so it's £72k  if Bradford are in SL, Champ or L1, regardless.

What is less well known is that the business rates set by the council are low 6 figures, from what I've heard. Add in utilities & essential maintenance and Bradford need approx  £400k just to get started each season. That's the problem, right there.

 

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, meast said:

Because ,if i remember, at the time, there was something from the RFL involving catchment areas to try and prevent bigger clubs taking away support from smaller clubs, I can't recall what it was called, basically each club were given boudnaries of where and where not to promote, Bradford encroached onto other clubs' "patches"

Such arrangements were in place for player recruitment (service areas) but I cannot possibly see how limitations on where clubs can promote themselves would even be legal, or why any club would voluntarily agree to them. 

[TrueBull]

16 hours ago, Hemi4561 said:

Why should my council tax go to bailing out them? Any proceeds from the sale of the s***hole should be used for the benefit of all the residents of the BMDC. 

This is where it gets a bit more "educated guesswork" time. There does seem to be a covenant attached to the Bulls & Odsal that if the landlord +/- head leaseholder decide to sell the land for other purposes, one or other of them are obligated to provide (pay for) a suitable modern stadium within 5miles of the site. The obvious inference would be Valley Parade.

The other problems that the council have is the statutory responsibility all councils now have for public health - childhood obesity & nutrition for example. Bradford district does poorly in all child health indicators. The Richard Dunne site will be demolished once the modern Sedbergh site is open. That will improve sports facilities for the South side of Bradford.

If they can get a community stadium - similar to Warrington, for example, with public health clinics, diabetes clinic, nutrition, offices built in, a community hub, wrapped around a 10-12k modern stadium, paid for by landfill & then housing, so that it breaks even -  I think the council would see that as a win. All they've done is allow some land to be developed (and there is value in that site) and they've massively improved public health infrastructure in the South side of Bradford. No profit or loss, but improved quality.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

1 hour ago, Konkrete said:

Well what a depressing thread...

There are two visible CCJs against the club for £777 and the other for £1,850.  A total of £2,627.  And so far as I understand it these are current contested invoices.  Not a case of being unable to pay, but disputed.  The only reason these small amounts are 'news' is because it's Bradford, and because a throw away comment was made on Forty-20 a couple of weeks ago hinting at the club being in trouble.  We know that there are other clubs with current CCJs but that's not being reported by the RL press because either it's not a big enough story (ie not Bradford) or perhaps there are closer ties between those clubs and the journalists that write the papers, who knows.

 

Keep trying to ignore that Bradford are skint. Recently selling and releasing players and the talk about leaving Odsal and even playing out of the City dont exactly paint a good financial picture.

Quote

It will be interesting to see for instance what prominence is brought to the story of two Halifax directors resigning straight after the cup semi-final (recorded on Monday at Companies House) and the background to that.  It will be interesting to see for instance if the CCJs of the other club(s) are published and discussed with as much glee as ours have.  It'll be interesting for instance to see if any other club salary payment run is openly speculated on without any basis. All these things are damaging to a club that's trying, once more, to get some stability with no sugar daddy to pay for everything.

You seem to know all the ins and outs of Halifax RLFC. Your drivel failed to mention that while 2 Directors quit, another 2 people joined the board. You follow whats going on at Halifax RLFC so closely you would know that there have been people wanting to join the Board at Halifax for months and that there has been some in-fighting between people. You can look on RLfans Forum to see this.

Quote

As for the comments from the Huddersfield fan.  You've been in SL a long time now, and at a time when Bradford have been on the decline.  Yet, you still have a loss making operation, have not built your fan base up - despite winning the LLS in 2013 and having fabulous financial resources, you play in a fantastic stadium that isn't yours and you didn't pay to build, you received £1m to merge with Sheffield which was essentially a RFL cash injection into your books, you continually look to raid our academy, and you failed to spot the incredible talent of Oliver Wilson on your own doorstep.  I could go on... but at the end of the day we're still a club that can get more people attend a shirt and season ticket launch in League 1 than some SL clubs (cough) can get to attend a home game.

How many Clubs dont rely on money from Directors being pumped in? And look at how much Bradford Bulls lost in SL despite all the success, crowds and help from the RFL etc! Oliver Wilson (Like many of the Bradford Players) is from Halifax and came from Greetland Allrounders. Thats not Huddersfield and not on their doorstep. Two different Towns and Two Different RL Societies.

Why did Bradford sell him? Need the Cash? The Bulls are not a big Club and will be a Championship team for a few years yet. Raid your Academy? Bradford let these players go! If the Bulls had money and something to offer the likes of Oliver Wilson, they would stay.

The way Many (Not all) Bradford fans looked down on Halifax, Huddersfield, Batley, Keighley etc a few years ago, is why fans of those Clubs find it amusing where Bradford Bulls are now and how even now, CERTAIN Bulls Fans think that Bradford Bulls are bigger than what they actually are. Bradford Bulls are a Championship Team that are nowhere near ready for SL. You do seem very jealous of Huddersfield. Good on Ken Davy and Huddersfield Giants for what they are doing. I doubt they will run up debts like Bradford did while in SL.

[Konkrete]

31 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Keep trying to ignore that Bradford are skint. Recently selling and releasing players and the talk about leaving Odsal and even playing out of the City dont exactly paint a good financial picture.

You seem to know all the ins and outs of Halifax RLFC. Your drivel failed to mention that while 2 Directors quit, another 2 people joined the board. You follow whats going on at Halifax RLFC so closely you would know that there have been people wanting to join the Board at Halifax for months and that there has been some in-fighting between people. You can look on RLfans Forum to see this.

How many Clubs dont rely on money from Directors being pumped in? And look at how much Bradford Bulls lost in SL despite all the success, crowds and help from the RFL etc! Oliver Wilson (Like many of the Bradford Players) is from Halifax and came from Greetland Allrounders. Thats not Huddersfield and not on their doorstep. Two different Towns and Two Different RL Societies.

Why did Bradford sell him? Need the Cash? The Bulls are not a big Club and will be a Championship team for a few years yet. Raid your Academy? Bradford let these players go! If the Bulls had money and something to offer the likes of Oliver Wilson, they would stay.

The way Many (Not all) Bradford fans looked down on Halifax, Huddersfield, Batley, Keighley etc a few years ago, is why fans of those Clubs find it amusing where Bradford Bulls are now and how even now, CERTAIN Bulls Fans think that Bradford Bulls are bigger than what they actually are. Bradford Bulls are a Championship Team that are nowhere near ready for SL. You do seem very jealous of Huddersfield. Good on Ken Davy and Huddersfield Giants for what they are doing. I doubt they will run up debts like Bradford did while in SL.

Haters gonna hate. 

Read the post again calmly. You might understand the focus better. 

Oh, and I know very well Wilson is from Halifax. Some clubs don’t...

#huddersfieldborn

 

 

[Phil]

Bradford did nothing wrong promoting their “brand” wherever they liked but yeah, some of their fans attitudes were pretty poor which is one of the reasons a lot of Fax, Huddersfield, Keighley etc fans are remarkably dry eyed at their demise