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Smoketrail

Why old Trafford?

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2 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Why would I carry on banging my head against a brick wall. You've not had one person back you up nor have you come up with one feasible idea to improve the GF or genuine reason to move from OT. Pointless end of season thread.

So the GF cannot be improved upon in your opinion?

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23 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

So the GF cannot be improved upon in your opinion?

Not by moving it , no , IMO , the GF venue is probably genuinely the last thing RL in the UK needs to worry about 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Not by moving it , no , IMO , the GF venue is probably genuinely the last thing RL in the UK needs to worry about 

My take on that is to keep it under review depending upon what new facilities elsewhere spring up and where.

For now Old Trafford probably fits the bill.

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56 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

So the GF cannot be improved upon in your opinion?

In the short term? only extremely marginally. The event is really good, attendances are about as good as could be expected for where the sport is at the moment and there is no better stadium currently.

Long term? Who knows, but any improvements are undoubtedly going to be related to improving the image and exposure of the sport itself rather than independent changes to the event. 

Edited by Tex Evans Thigh

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14 hours ago, DC77 said:

Saying RL is in the top 3 club games here is akin to saying Frankie Goes to Hollywood is in the top 3 biggest bands to come out of Liverpool...in both cases #1 is a juggernaut that dwarfs the other two. Sam Tomkins can get on a train in London and nobody have a clue who he is (he’s done it, which is why I mention him). Club RU (apparently its #2), how many could name who won this year’s English championship? Outside the hardcore who follow it, I’d say close to zero. Although it’s a distant second, I’d argue club RL has a higher profile than club RU.

 

This is another case of comparing here to other countries, when there is no comparison. Ball park figure, football takes up 80% plus of the UK sports media . No sport in Australia takes up anywhere near that figure. There a more even split. 

Ok, this is getting a little derailed... I know full well how popular the sport of rugby league is in England, UK and other global markets. 

What I don’t know is why the discussion of the sport’s popularity in England is being brought into this discussion? What does it have to do with any of the original feedback I offered and the feedback that others have offered?

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52 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Wembley is a better stadium...

So is the Dallas Cowboys’ stadium but it wouldn’t be a good place to hold it either. By better he meant better to host the GF, not the stadium itself. 

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3 hours ago, Eddie said:

So is the Dallas Cowboys’ stadium but it wouldn’t be a good place to hold it either. By better he meant better to host the GF, not the stadium itself. 

Exactly. The new Wembley does also seem lacking something to me as well. Cardiff, Old Trafford and Murrayfield are the best I've been to (not been to Celtic Park, Emirates or Spurs' yet) and even then OT is still best placed to host across a number of factors.

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On 14/10/2019 at 15:26, Smoketrail said:

As a grand final I'm wondering why at Old Trafford? Stadium and crowd looked good, but the pitch looked awful. Too small in goal, too small width, football lines all over. I think it should be bid on and moved around every year. Where else could it be held?

I take your point on this , I know there have been a few minor but I am staggered that their have been no major injuries . However it does look rammed even with 10-15k seats free . 

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8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Wembley is a better stadium...

Except it's not in the North of England where the Grand Final should be and it already hosts the Challenge Cup.

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9 hours ago, Eddie said:

So is the Dallas Cowboys’ stadium but it wouldn’t be a good place to hold it either. By better he meant better to host the GF, not the stadium itself. 

Thanks for explaining to him what I thought was an extremely simple point.


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in comparison to other modern stadiums,  Old Trafford is light years behind, and United are in real danger of falling further behind their rivals as the likes of Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal develop the corporate side of their business which is far more lucrative than the traditional footie season ticket holder. 

The Ethiad is a far superior stadium, but as someone has already pointed out, the capacity is a lot less than Old Trafford, but in my opinion would make for a better 'fans' experience as the fans zone outside the ground would be ideal for RL, which could include a large stage with live bands etc outside the stadium rather than sticking a band in a corner of a ground where nobody can see them.

So there's ways to look at this - keep it at Old Trafford and continue to sell heavily discounted tickets to community clubs in order to sell out the ground, or take it to a smaller ground, increase ticket prices to reflect the reduced capacity and put more effort into selling corporate sponsorship which in fairness, is where the money is.

One the tram network to the Ethiad is finished, then this surely would be a better option - as the Ethiad has the smaller stadiums adjacent to it, the afternoon could be combined with the Ladies finals which could be played in the smaller 5,000 capacity stadium earlier in the afternoon

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3 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

in comparison to other modern stadiums,  Old Trafford is light years behind, and United are in real danger of falling further behind their rivals as the likes of Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal develop the corporate side of their business which is far more lucrative than the traditional footie season ticket holder. 

The Ethiad is a far superior stadium, but as someone has already pointed out, the capacity is a lot less than Old Trafford, but in my opinion would make for a better 'fans' experience as the fans zone outside the ground would be ideal for RL, which could include a large stage with live bands etc outside the stadium rather than sticking a band in a corner of a ground where nobody can see them.

So there's ways to look at this - keep it at Old Trafford and continue to sell heavily discounted tickets to community clubs in order to sell out the ground, or take it to a smaller ground, increase ticket prices to reflect the reduced capacity and put more effort into selling corporate sponsorship which in fairness, is where the money is.

One the tram network to the Ethiad is finished, then this surely would be a better option - as the Ethiad has the smaller stadiums adjacent to it, the afternoon could be combined with the Ladies finals which could be played in the smaller 5,000 capacity stadium earlier in the afternoon

I've no idea what makes you think this but just so you're aware, Manchester United makes more from corporate/VIP hospitality than any other Premier League club* and just about the richest club in the world, which tells me they know quite a lot about marketing and business in general. Also, why would you not want to sell tickets to community clubs? Selling corporate sponsorship for a one off game really isn't going to make up the difference of 20,000 less tickets to sell. 

*Can't include Tottenham in this as they haven't had a full season at their new stadium yet. 

Edited by hunsletgreenandgold
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36 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I've no idea what makes you think this but just so you're aware, Manchester United makes more from corporate/VIP hospitality then any other Premier League club* and just about the richest club in the world, which tells me they know quite a lot about marketing and business in general. Also, why would you not want to sell tickets to community clubs? Selling corporate sponsorship for a one off game really isn't going to make up the difference of 20,000 less tickets to sell. 

*Can't include Tottenham in this as they haven't had a full season at their new stadium yet. 

Whilst I wouldn't move to Man City with its current capacity, there is an argument that playing in a better ground with a smaller capacity allows you to bump up the prices - lowest was £20 this year and even that was discounted for around 9 months. 

If they ever increase to 65k then I think it is a no-brainer.

The current difference between our average 69k and the 56k capacity at City would mean a really modest increase in ticket price i.e. get rid of discounts really to make the same income.

As things stand, I think the capacity and location trumps the other options at the moment, but we should be reviewing this regularly.

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This kind of discussion always fails to take into account that the owners of these stadia are under absolutely no obligation to rent them to the RFL, nor what the likely costs would be.

Man Utd have done the RFL a massive favour in allowing their ground to be used for play-off finals for 30+ years for a payment that doesn't even cover a weeks wages for a couple of their players. There's no reason to assume that Spurs or Man City would be equally generous.

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On 16/10/2019 at 05:52, Sports Prophet said:

Wembley is a better stadium...

Old Trafford is certainly going to need a fair bit of work soon but the new Wembley isn't really as good as it says on the tin. The new Tottenham stadium for example wipes the floor with it.

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On 16/10/2019 at 13:46, Eddie said:

So is the Dallas Cowboys’ stadium but it wouldn’t be a good place to hold it either. By better he meant better to host the GF, not the stadium itself. 

I think Wembley would be a better place to host the SL GF than OT

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22 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Except it's not in the North of England where the Grand Final should be and it already hosts the Challenge Cup.

Why should the GF be in the North of England?

Why does the Challenge Cup have to be held at Wembley?

There are merits for hosting them where they are now, but, I also think there is merit to swapping them.

I like the idea of the rugby league’s biggest showpiece being hosted in the nation’s capital city at the nations largest, most iconic stadium. I would also suggest there is more chance of selling out Wembley with a SL GF over a CCF.

Edited by Sports Prophet

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38 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Old Trafford is certainly going to need a fair bit of work soon but the new Wembley isn't really as good as it says on the tin. The new Tottenham stadium for example wipes the floor with it.

You are very right about Tottenham. All except for capacity and status as the national arena.

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Old Trafford will require an upgrade in the not too distant future. It's one of a few PL stadiums which doesn't have a big screen for VAR, Anfield is another.

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4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Whilst I wouldn't move to Man City with its current capacity, there is an argument that playing in a better ground with a smaller capacity allows you to bump up the prices - lowest was £20 this year and even that was discounted for around 9 months. 

If they ever increase to 65k then I think it is a no-brainer.

The current difference between our average 69k and the 56k capacity at City would mean a really modest increase in ticket price i.e. get rid of discounts really to make the same income.

As things stand, I think the capacity and location trumps the other options at the moment, but we should be reviewing this regularly.

Why would you bump up prices to let fewer people in? This is a working class sport and has a history of being inclusive, the last thing most people want is for the game to become as corporate as football has become, surely?

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40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why would you bump up prices to let fewer people in? This is a working class sport and has a history of being inclusive, the last thing most people want is for the game to become as corporate as football has become, surely?

Because we have to go to a lot of cost, effort and discounting to get over 60k in. 

As I said in my post, stopping discounts wouldn't be far off covering the shortfall. It may mean that we finally increase our lowest price from £20.

We have had to sell tickets for cheaper than a big standard SL game for too long.

Working class people can afford £25 instead of £20 minus 10%. We wouldn't price anybody out of the event.

I'd suggest people would pay more for better views and seats. It is no coincidence that the cheap tickets up in the Gods are the ones that dont sell at the Grand Final and the Cup Final.

Edited by Dave T

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6 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I've no idea what makes you think this but just so you're aware, Manchester United makes more from corporate/VIP hospitality than any other Premier League club* and just about the richest club in the world, which tells me they know quite a lot about marketing and business in general. Also, why would you not want to sell tickets to community clubs? Selling corporate sponsorship for a one off game really isn't going to make up the difference of 20,000 less tickets to sell. 

*Can't include Tottenham in this as they haven't had a full season at their new stadium yet. 

Indeed...Man U are a money making juggernaut  (up there with Real Madrid and Barca as the three most lucrative sports teams). Ed Woodward gets a lot of flak, but he’s been an outstanding CEO from a commercial standpoint.

1 hour ago, Mister Ting said:

Old Trafford will require an upgrade in the not too distant future. It's one of a few PL stadiums which doesn't have a big screen for VAR, Anfield is another.

The Anfield road end will match the new main stand, bringing capacity to over 63k. Anfield is a terrible choice for RL though. It’s an iconic football ground (emphasis on football). It gained that reputation through European nights with the atmosphere under the lights. It doesn’t work for other sports, especially when there are 25k rattling around the place. 

 

Just listening to Leeds CEO Angus Kinnear talking about upgrading Elland Road to a 50k seater...”when” they reach the Premier League. Problem is they’ve been waiting a while. That could well be an option for a RL final venue...when it finally happens. 

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