What Do You Do With A Problem Like Hodgson?

[Scubby]

I love watching Canberra and Hodgson is a key part of that. He controls the play and it seems to suit the club.

It is like 4-5 years now with England/GB and it just doesn't seem to work in the same way. He is either trying too hard, or his overplaying style is just not suited to our national side. I have nothing but respect for what he has achieved in Australia, it is amazing, but something does not work when he pulls on an international shirt. The difference in style between him and Roby is evident in those big international fixtures. Sometimes things just don't click. Is it stick or twist going towards the World Cup because this isn't a one off?

[DoubleD]

I thought he was one of England’s best. England (plus Coote) problem was that they didn’t do the little 1 percenters and non existent game management from the halves. Also we had almost zero support play - the amount of times players went up and had no support - so it was easy for the defence to line up and suffocate and there was very little second phase footy to break open the Tongans

[Oliver Clothesoff]

His kicking was quite poor, I thought. I’d let him have less responsibility on the last tackle. A couple of Widdop kicks early in the second half ended in GLD’s. 

[Dunbar]

We should start a crowdfunding page to get a Super League team (any Super League team) to sign him on the marquee player rule.  If he's not in the NRL then Bennett won't pick him and we can have a far more effective 9 internationally.

[Scubby]

21 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I thought he was one of England’s best. England (plus Coote) problem was that they didn’t do the little 1 percenters and non existent game management from the halves. Also we had almost zero support play - the amount of times players went up and had no support - so it was easy for the defence to line up and suffocate and there was very little second phase footy to break open the Tongans

He is talented, he tries hard. He is amazing in the NRL but something doesn't click at International level. We simply don't get the ball to the halves quick enough and it looks hesitant and overplayed. 

I love the guy as a player (so no axe to grind) but something doesn't work for the national side. It is frustrating as he touches the ball more than any player in a game. 

[Dunbar]

35 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I thought he was one of England’s best. England (plus Coote) problem was that they didn’t do the little 1 percenters and non existent game management from the halves. Also we had almost zero support play - the amount of times players went up and had no support - so it was easy for the defence to line up and suffocate and there was very little second phase footy to break open the Tongans

The thing about Hodgson is that he is not particularly a running threat (ala Cook and Clark) and more of an organising and scheming dummy half in the Cam Smith mould.  If we select him for his game management and Great Britain has poor game management then some of it must be down to him.

[DavidM]

13 minutes ago, Scubby said:

He is talented, he tries hard. He is amazing in the NRL but something doesn't click at International level. We simply don't get the ball to the halves quick enough and it looks hesitant and overplayed. 

I love the guy as a player (so no axe to grind) but something doesn't work for the national side. It is frustrating as he touches the ball more than any player in a game. 

Pretty much this . Outstanding and what he’s done and gives is brilliant , I’ll back him fully , but it is an enigma tbh when we get to the international scene . His kicking exemplifies it , pinpoint and critical for the raiders but at times aimless and inaccurate for eng/gb

[JonM]

38 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I thought he was one of England’s best. 

I don't think you can afford to have someone kick the ball dead with no threat at all twice in a game at this level.

Hard for the halfbacks to shine when the pack was so comprehensively beaten. Tonga's slowed down our ptb far more than we slowed down theirs.

[Damien]

It's been noticeable for years that he slows down and interferes with play far too much at international level. England have often done better when Roby or Clark have been on the field.

[Dunbar]

I have said on a previous discussion that Hodgson has far too many negative elements in his game to be considered as highly as he is.

Even for Canberra where people rate him as one of the best hookers in the NRL his negative plays are significant.

When you look at the 19 players with the most appearances at hooker in the NRL this year Hodgson ranks number 1 in most missed tackles per match and errors per match and ranked 3rd in the number of penalties conceded per match.

To be a top class player you have to do the good stuff well but you also have to cut out the rubbish stuff as well.

[Lowdesert]

4 minutes ago, JonM said:

I don't think you can afford to have someone kick the ball dead with no threat at all twice in a game at this level.

Hard for the halfbacks to shine when the pack was so comprehensively beaten. Tonga's slowed down our ptb far more than we slowed down theirs.

Agreed there.  The forwards, bar Whitehead and at times Bateman, where dominated.  In some ways the OP is right, but any half or hooker playing behind that would not have done well.  I didn’t think he did as badly as has been said.

The only option there might be, IMO obviously, is rotation with Clark.  Speed that Hodgson hasnt got and would make the defence uneasy, but none the less, the forwards have to create the gap or offload for support.

They will b better fir the hit out that’s for sure.

[Lowdesert]

Just now, Dunbar said:

I have said on a previous discussion that Hodgson has far too many negative elements in his game to be considered as highly as he is.

Even for Canberra where people rate him as one of the best hookers in the NTL his negative plays are significant.

When you look at the 19 players with the most appearances at hooker in the NRL this year Hodgson ranks number 1 in most missed tackles per match and errors per match and ranked 3rd in the number of penalties conceded per match.

To be a top class player you have to do the good stuff well but you also have to cut out the rubbish stuff as well.

He is a top class player, playing in a top class team.

[Dunbar]

 

10 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

He is a top class player, playing in a top class team.

He is a good but over rated player playing for one of the best teams in the NRL.

[Lowdesert]

Just now, Dunbar said:

 

He is a good but over rated player playing for one of the best teams in the NRL.

Over rated by you, but not by the majority.  He’s playing in one of the best teams in the world and an international.

[Dunbar]

11 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Over rated by you, but not by the majority.  He’s playing in one of the best teams in the world and an international.

Maybe.  But I have provided my evidence for why I believe he is overrated. The best players don't make as many errors, miss as many tackles or give away as many penalties as Hodgson.

[Blind side johnny]

29 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Pretty much this . Outstanding and what he’s done and gives is brilliant , I’ll back him fully , but it is an enigma tbh when we get to the international scene . His kicking exemplifies it , pinpoint and critical for the raiders but at times aimless and inaccurate for eng/gb

Might it equally be the players around him? At Canberra they play to a style and system but with England/GB less so.

Remember how surprised British fans were when he became such a success in the NRL as the signs hadn't really been there before he moved, had they?

[DavidM]

Just now, Blind side johnny said:

Might it equally be the players around him? At Canberra they play to a style and system but with England/GB less so.

Remember how surprised British fans were when he became such a success in the NRL as the signs hadn't really ben there before he moved, had they?

Indeed , maybe so 

[DoubleD]

25 minutes ago, JonM said:

I don't think you can afford to have someone kick the ball dead with no threat at all twice in a game at this level.

Tonga's slowed down our ptb far more than we slowed down theirs.

Agreed 

26 minutes ago, JonM said:

Hard for the halfbacks to shine when the pack was so comprehensively beaten.

I wasn’t asking them to shine, more for them to take control of game management. I was really disappointed with Hastings. We need our halves to be leaders, dominant and looking for the ball. They did none of these. 

This may also be a coach issue if he doesn’t put enough onus on the halves in the team

[Lowdesert]

14 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Maybe.  But I have provided my evidence for why I believe he is overrated. The best players don't make as many errors, miss as many tackles or give away as many penalties as Hodgson.

Pretty narrow minded evidence if you don’t mind me saying so.

He’s in a position where he will miss tackles, penalties are another matter but even so both are more subjective than objective as those errors need quantifying.  How, when, what pressure, where, injured or not etc etc etc.

Just commenting that a player, starting in the NRL is overrated as he makes errors is strange.  Iirc Saints had a really high ratio of errors at one stage, so did Blake Austin, and one of the Turbos, so it’s not all about errors.  

Personally, I would still play Roby if available and even at his age.  Would certainly like to see Clark on at some stage and maybe that’ll change v NZ, but I think Hodgson will be in the starting shirt.

 

[Dunbar]

14 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Pretty narrow minded evidence if you don’t mind me saying so.

He’s in a position where he will miss tackles, penalties are another matter but even so both are more subjective than objective as those errors need quantifying.  How, when, what pressure, where, injured or not etc etc etc.

Two points. 

I would say it is the opposite of narrow minded (I would say that!) as I am balancing the good parts of his game, of which there is many, with the bad parts.  Hodgson is very talented but it is his discipline, both errors and penalties, that let him down and stop him being genuinely world class in my opinion.  Funnily enough that was not the problem today as it was the stuff he is usually good at (ruck control, kicking) that let him down today.

Secondly, yes he may be in a position where he is liable to miss tackles but seeing as though I was comparing his stats to other hookers in the NRL that is moot as it is a like for like comparison. 

[Mr Frisky]

Just shows the value of Roby. Hope we haven't seen the last of him at this level as hes still the best player in SL and the best in the world in his position.

Hope Clark gets a go next week - drop Coote, Widdop to FB and Clark on the bench with Lomax on the field.

[Tommygilf]

As I put in the match thread I distinctly remember Hodgson slowing down and seemingly frustrating our attack in the WC. There was a point where I thought he was deliberately not passing to Luke Gale or indeed any of the non-NRL players.

[GeordieSaint]

12 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Just shows the value of Roby. Hope we haven't seen the last of him at this level as hes still the best player in SL and the best in the world in his position.

Roby is gone at this level; we won't pull on an international shirt again. Injuries have caught up with him; so I expect Aaron Smith to get significantly more game time next year at Saints along with the other young lad (can't remember his name!) coming through the system.

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

As I put in the match thread I distinctly remember Hodgson slowing down and seemingly frustrating our attack in the WC. There was a point where I thought he was deliberately not passing to Luke Gale or indeed any of the non-NRL players.

Hodgson is a massive problem IMO. He is a very good player for Canberra. But it's not translating to the national side; and never has. He overplays, slow in his distribution, and gets in the way. Watch when he passes from dummy half; at times at least one, if not two/three steps in either direction before releasing the ball... then we see him at first receiver at times; he shouldn't ever be in that position when you have the likes of Widdop, Hastings, Coote/Lomax on the field. Injuries to Gildart and Thompson are likely to rule them out next week but the one UNFORCED change I'd make is Clarke as the starting 9 instead of Hodgson; I think we'd be much better as an outfit like we were when Roby started in the WC.

[Hullfan]

4 hours ago, Scubby said:

I love watching Canberra and Hodgson is a key part of that. He controls the play and it seems to suit the club.

It is like 4-5 years now with England/GB and it just doesn't seem to work in the same way. He is either trying too hard, or his overplaying style is just not suited to our national side. I have nothing but respect for what he has achieved in Australia, it is amazing, but something does not work when he pulls on an international shirt. The difference in style between him and Roby is evident in those big international fixtures. Sometimes things just don't click. Is it stick or twist going towards the World Cup because this isn't a one off?

He's rubbish 

[Clogiron]

Hodgson suits the Raider's style which is constructed around him, for GB it doesn't fit. It happens, pick Clarke who has some pace something lacking throughout the team.