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Themusician_2

Why isn't France as good as New Zealand?

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Both only have 1 fully pro team. Both governing bodies are broke. Both have huge union competition for talent. If you take these into account they should be of similar class. But that's not the case. New Zealand is arguably better than even us.

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6 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Both only have 1 fully pro team. Both governing bodies are broke. Both have huge union competition for talent. If you take these into account they should be of similar class. But that's not the case. New Zealand is arguably better than even us.

Probably because there is a shed load of NZ qualified players playing in the best League comp in the world. I would suggest that if there were that many Frenchmen playing in Australia then France would be competing with Aus, NZ and England 

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Playing numbers surely? 

Plus NZ is a rugby nation, France is not (bar a segment of the southwest). NZ kids grow up with an oval ball, it’s part of the sporting fabric of the place, so with that upbringing they are bound to excel at both codes.

They’d be number one at RL too if they had the same (or close to) playing numbers as Aus. 

 

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3 minutes ago, DC77 said:

Playing numbers surely? 

Plus NZ is a rugby nation, France is not (bar a segment of the southwest). NZ kids grow up with an oval ball, it’s part of the sporting fabric of the place, so with that upbringing they are bound to excel at both codes.

They’d be number one at RL too if they had the same (or close to) playing numbers as Aus. 

 

The thing is France has more ru players than New Zealand in terms of participation numbers.

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22 minutes ago, burnleywelsh said:

Probably because there is a shed load of NZ qualified players playing in the best League comp in the world. I would suggest that if there were that many Frenchmen playing in Australia then France would be competing with Aus, NZ and England 

Says a lot about the standard here in NH then doesn't it.

Edited by Themusician_2

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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2 hours ago, Themusician_2 said:

The thing is France has more ru players than New Zealand in terms of participation numbers.

Yes , but , if you've ever lived in NZ , you'd understand just what Rugby ( Union , but the skills transfer given how they play it ) means there , it is everything , a religion 

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NRL scouts for each team monitor talent from both codes in NZ then sign them into their development squads at a young age. They especially spend a lot of time monitoring the high school union programs over there. Not too sure if super league clubs do the same thing. 

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New Zealand may have only one fully pro club like France does, but the 15 Australian NRL clubs have at least 3 or more NZ qualified players in their teams. Talent spread around. Then there’s a shed load of NZ players in Super League. Let’s do a count on the number of NZ players across all 28 NRL + Super League clubs compared to France.

Edited by Bluebags1973
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34 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Even by TRL forum standards this thread is bizarre. 

With all the negative headlines surrounding a certain other code of Football, their supporters have made a concerted effort to up their dead cat-throwing rate.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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31 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

With all the negative headlines surrounding a certain other code of Football, their supporters have made a concerted effort to up their dead cat-throwing rate.

It’s barely a football code, just a load of blokes standing about most of the time. 

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Size has a lot to do with it in regard to the difference between the two.The Kiwis are made up mainly of PI and there are some big guy amongst them.Take the Tongan team  for instance they knocked the stuffing out of GB  and Aussie.

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Plus a large pacific Islander population. Pacific Islanders on average are much better rugby players than caucasians. 

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The RFL (or Super League) need a serious strategy for development of players in general.

In the short to medium term - any expansion clubs...

London (yes, still count them)

Catalans

Toulouse

Toronto

Ottawa

West Wales

North Wales Crusaders

Newcastle Thunder

Should all have salary cap exemption for 'home grown' players in their 1st team squads - i.e. they play 1st team whether in SL or below.

English Super League Clubs - 

Salary cap percentage exemption at maybe 50% for arguments sake for home grown 'from the town' players (instead of marquee cap exemption) then surely they can do both!

I'd also give the incentive to SL clubs to recruit Welsh, Irish, Scottish, French players on a reduced salary cap benefit to bolster the international game.

 

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6 hours ago, Themusician_2 said:

Both only have 1 fully pro team. Both governing bodies are broke. Both have huge union competition for talent. If you take these into account they should be of similar class. But that's not the case. New Zealand is arguably better than even us.

One word: Polynesians.

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2 hours ago, The British Lion said:

The RFL (or Super League) need a serious strategy for development of players in general.

In the short to medium term - any expansion clubs...

London (yes, still count them)

Catalans

Toulouse

Toronto

Ottawa

West Wales

North Wales Crusaders

Newcastle Thunder

Should all have salary cap exemption for 'home grown' players in their 1st team squads - i.e. they play 1st team whether in SL or below.

English Super League Clubs - 

Salary cap percentage exemption at maybe 50% for arguments sake for home grown 'from the town' players (instead of marquee cap exemption) then surely they can do both!

I'd also give the incentive to SL clubs to recruit Welsh, Irish, Scottish, French players on a reduced salary cap benefit to bolster the international game.

 

Any expansion club should take into account growing the game from grassroots. By all means create a positive profile for the game.

France are behind because they have to deal with competing against SL/ Championship.

Toronto are throwing money at it and still sit bottom of SL.

Catalans need to compete with SL they can’t afford to blood youth.

The competition dictates winning not progress.

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Everyone seems to forget what the Warriors also have below the Telstra Premiership side, which is also a near full-time NSW Cup squad and a Jersey Flegg team (previously NRL U20s).

So straight away you have a squad of 90 players associated with just one club that is in NZ.  Throw in the fact it is far more natural from Kiwis to migrate to Australia than from France to England, there are no language barriers this has lead to a greater prevalence of NZ players in the Australian based clubs as well.

NZ has also stuck to a regular International calendar since 1995, playing Australia at least once every year, plus regular matches against the likes of England / GB.  

France firstly can't even guarantee they'll play England each year and they lack some of the pathways that NZ has.  Honestly if both Catalans and Toulouse both had teams in the Academy and Reserve Grade, in addition to their first teams, it would actually significantly boost the playing depth for France in just a few years which is what they need to be competitive.

If they could also get the team management to be a bit more professional, that would just be icing on the cake.


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7 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

What issues do you have with it?

Your question is insane, it’s like asking why Russia aren’t better at Brazil at football because there are more people in Russia than Brazil. 

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If..

France didn't speak a different language. Making it harder for young players to come across.

&

Rugby League was as popular in France as it is in NZ.

&

Super League had as much money as NRL.

&

French Onion didn't have so much money.

&

Super League clubs scouted France as heavily as NRL clubs do NZ.

It may be a fair comparison, unfortunately there are quite a few factors that make it a bit less realistic. Not to say the situation can't be improved.

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The movement of junior players fr om Auckland to Aussie,has left a lot of the Auckland teams unable to field second teams.These players have been developed by the NZ system and yet the Aussies don't pay  the NZRL a cent for them.

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3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Your question is insane, it’s like asking why Russia aren’t better at Brazil at football because there are more people in Russia than Brazil. 

Er, Brazil has a bigger population than Russia. 

Playing numbers does explain a lot of it though. France is down to fewer than 80 RL clubs. There are almost certainly more NZ-qualified people playing RL in Australia than there are French qualified people playing RL in France.

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Why aren’t England as good as Australia?

Why aren’t Great Britain as good as Tonga? 

I guess the standard of the game is generally better in the SH compared to the NH. Not just the top level SL and NRL, I mean your Sunday league local park footy amateur sides and juniors too. So they go on to produce more professional players. 

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