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Rugby league receives £16 million loan lifeline (Merged threads)

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13 hours ago, Saintslass said:

I got the impression from reading the piece on TotalRL that the money was for everything other than wages since many clubs have placed their staff on furlough.  But I may be wrong obvs.

I'm relieved the government has stepped in.  Unlike soccer, etc, we were at the start of the season and so have lost a great deal.  And the minister was right, rugby league clubs are still very much connected to their local communities and in that sense allowing the sport to fall over would damage much more than simply a sport.

I do hope the RFL use the money to help those clubs that most need help.

The twist though is that the clubs that "need most help" may turn out to be some that won't best please some on here - the biggest Superleague clubs. 

Remember this package is to mitigate the hit from the pandemic, not bail out clubs whose problems are longer standing.

Rimmer said yesterday that need for support would be based on revenue projections that were lodged with the RFL at the start of the year, and it's the biggest clubs who will suffer the biggest loss in revenue.

Furthermore these clubs also tend to have the biggest and most active foundations and the most assets - physical and human - being used by the community. This aspect seems to have been key to getting the govt on board. 

The only caveat is Rimmer also said some clubs have access to other funds and may not seek, or be eligible for, support. We don't know how that will work, but based on what we've learned since the announcement, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of our biggest clubs getting some of the biggest shares of the pot. 

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13 hours ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Reasonable interview with Rimmer. Affirming much and some little extras. "Robert at the Super League"...interesting way of addressing.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ralph-rimmer-rugby-league-loan-4095491

Interesting quote here: 

I won’t go directly into the terms of the loan, we’ll use the money as wisely as we can. The basis of it is and the points the government are responding to is the work the clubs do away from the field. That work is vital.

So reading between the lines in some of those answers, it might be that ‘payment’ back on the loan may not be financial as such but more in relation to off field, community developments that clubs carry out 

 

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5 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Interesting quote here: 

I won’t go directly into the terms of the loan, we’ll use the money as wisely as we can. The basis of it is and the points the government are responding to is the work the clubs do away from the field. That work is vital.

So reading between the lines in some of those answers, it might be that ‘payment’ back on the loan may not be financial as such but more in relation to off field, community developments that clubs carry out 

 

I hope so.

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https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/adam-pearson-hull-fc-loan-4097305

Hopefully this is the usual Pearson histrionics but ...

“There’s enormous pressure from Sky, who are looking to get games on or get their money back. So what we could end up taking from the RFL, we could end up giving to other people and that we’ve got to guard against.”

If Sky not only do not pay anymore but actually want the last instalment back then the £16m is a sticking plaster that will not last very long.

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17 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

I just fear that if one team goes then it could lead to a chain reaction.

I agree. It could very quickly become a case of people in glass houses.

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26 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/adam-pearson-hull-fc-loan-4097305

Hopefully this is the usual Pearson histrionics but ...

“There’s enormous pressure from Sky, who are looking to get games on or get their money back. So what we could end up taking from the RFL, we could end up giving to other people and that we’ve got to guard against.”

If Sky not only do not pay anymore but actually want the last instalment back then the £16m is a sticking plaster that will not last very long.

  I think the RFL is in charge of the 16m.

   The Sky matter is one for those Super League club owners and the negotiating skills of Mr Elstone.

   After all,those Super League club owners and Mr Elstone are the best for commercial matters.They know best.

   All for the good of the sport,of course...

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     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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Sports are administered by the devolved governments. The DMCS (from whom the loan was granted) only governs sport in England. Money/help for the Welsh clubs would need to come via the Welsh Assembly. Most likely some form of one-off exemption will be worked out to allow them access to apply for some of this money.

Edited by wiganermike
Correcting spelling

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2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Interesting quote here: 

I won’t go directly into the terms of the loan, we’ll use the money as wisely as we can. The basis of it is and the points the government are responding to is the work the clubs do away from the field. That work is vital.

So reading between the lines in some of those answers, it might be that ‘payment’ back on the loan may not be financial as such but more in relation to off field, community developments that clubs carry out 

 

The money was just resting in my account!

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Why not Welsh clubs? Obviously part of the rules of such a scheme but is there a reason why?

 

 

30 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Sports are administered by the devolved governments. The DMCS (from whom the loan was granted) only governs sport in England. Money/help for the Welsh clubs would need to come via the Welsh Assembly. Most likely some form of one-off exemption will be worked out to allow them access to apply for some of this money.

We are in danger of going round in circles with this conversation! 

It isn't the rules of the scheme that is the issue, HW.  It is where, geographically, the scheme can legally be applied, which, as I understand it, is England, because sport is a devolved issue.

I cannot see how a one-off exemption could be worked out, wiganermike.  The Treasury auditors would, quite rightly, come down like the proverbial ton of bricks on whoever at DCMS sanctioned such a thing.  So, I fancy, would a number of back-bench MPs, as it would be political dynamite.

I am a Scot who supports devolution.  However, and because of that, I fully accept that you cannot suddenly go pathetically pleading for UK government intervention in an area of life which you have been pleased and proud to see devolved to your native land.  As the saying goes, "You pays yer money and you takes yer choice!"

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59 minutes ago, weighman said:

Not in England , like French & Canadian clubs.

Something to do with Club England ?

as has been said - Scottish govt and Welsh govt deal with Scotland and Wales for sport. In the same way that French and Canadian governments deal with French and Canadian clubs (for everything, obviously). So this £16m is specifically English money from a specifically English department for specifically English clubs. That's the way devolution works. 

It's not the British government giving British money (thanks to a weird quirk of the settlement where England doesn't have it's own government), and it's not English taxpayers' money for rugby league either. It's quite specifically English taxpayers' money for English RL clubs.

Edited by iffleyox
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Interesting aside, I was just reading an article (which is behind a paywall so can't be linked) about the 68 clubs in the upper tiers of English non league football. They were, collectively, seeking around £17m, seemingly from the government, and have not been given it.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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27 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

 

We are in danger of going round in circles with this conversation! 

It isn't the rules of the scheme that is the issue, HW.  It is where, geographically, the scheme can legally be applied, which, as I understand it, is England, because sport is a devolved issue.

I cannot see how a one-off exemption could be worked out, wiganermike.  The Treasury auditors would, quite rightly, come down like the proverbial ton of bricks on whoever at DCMS sanctioned such a thing.  So, I fancy, would a number of back-bench MPs, as it would be political dynamite.

I am a Scot who supports devolution.  However, and because of that, I fully accept that you cannot suddenly go pathetically pleading for UK government intervention in an area of life which you have been pleased and proud to see devolved to your native land.  As the saying goes, "You pays yer money and you takes yer choice!"

Cheers for clearing it up. Shame that it’s not extended to Wales but I’d rather have this money based on it not being able to cover all clubs than not having any. 

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14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Interesting aside, I was just reading an article (which is behind a paywall so can't be linked) about the 68 clubs in the upper tiers of English non league football. They were, collectively, seeking around £17m, seemingly from the government, and have not been given it.

Interesting, I wonder if that's a veiled swipe by the govt against the FA? Looking at it dispassionately, in the three sports I know best other than football (RL, RU, and cricket) money rolls from the centre downhill far more than it does in the association code. In cricket the ECB can dictate to the counties, in RU the prem have got a lot of clout but it's still the case that if the RFU withdrew support the premiership would be financially shafted, and the RFL is the other way round (I'd argue) but it's still close enough to be mutually assured destruction. 

Whereas in association football money talks and clubs are king. If we're going for analogies I'd say that non-league football is a bit like the Scottish concept of north and south - everyone knows what the hierarchy is but as soon as you cross the border going north you're in the south again*. So I could make a case for turning down non-league football, even though a lot of those clubs will be as much a part of their community as local cricket, RL or RU clubs, because the sport as a whole (and from the centre) should for many years now have been doing more with the money it was making from sources other than from the government..

Cricket hasn't faced the same pressures but if I was a fan of an SL or Premiership RU breakaway I'd be looking at this and drawing conclusions.... 

Where possible, it looks like football is being made to sweat.

 

*ie there's a huge number of non-league clubs and a very clear pecking order. To misquote John Lennon, the Manchester Utd of non league is something to be. In and of itself. 

Edited by iffleyox
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1 minute ago, iffleyox said:

Interesting, I wonder if that's a veiled swipe by the govt against the FA? Looking at it dispassionately, in the three sports I know best other than football (RL, RU, and cricket) money rolls from the centre downhill far more than it does in the association code. In cricket the ECB can dictate to the counties, in RU the prem have got a lot of clout but it's still the case that if the RFU withdrew support the premiership would be financially shafted, and the RFL is the other way round (I'd argue) but it's still close enough to be mutually assured destruction. 

Whereas in association football money talks and clubs are king. If we're going for analogies I'd say that non-league football is a bit like the Scottish concept of north and south - everyone knows what the hierarchy is but as soon as you cross the border going north you're in the south again. So I could make a case for turning down non-league football, *even though a lot of those clubs will be as much a part of their community as cricket, RL or RU, because the sport as a whole (and from the centre) should for many years now have been doing more with the money it was making from sources other than from the government.

Cricket hasn't faced the same pressures but if I was a fan of an SL or Premiership RU breakaway I'd be looking at this and drawing conclusions.... 

Where possible, it looks like football is being made to sweat.

It wasn't the clearest article and not all of it was relevant but, basically, the allegation is that the FA is doing everything it can to protect its own commercial revenues and doing very little to protect or support its member clubs. And this included not being particularly helpful or creative in helping them access any funding beyond the government general business support schemes.

I think it's an example from another sport that shows the RFL in a good light.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

It wasn't the clearest article and not all of it was relevant but, basically, the allegation is that the FA is doing everything it can to protect its own commercial revenues and doing very little to protect or support its member clubs. And this included not being particularly helpful or creative in helping them access any funding beyond the government general business support schemes.

I think it's an example from another sport that shows the RFL in a good light.

I'd agree, although I've now edited my post about 4 times to try and improve clarity so I could have been clearer than I was when you replied to it!

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Yesterday the RFL issued a key message to all RFL Council members together with a document  headed ' The Rugby League Dividend Report ' . A report prepared by experts in their fields and running to 25 pages.

Conclusions  -   the annual economic impact  of RL community clubs ( that's the game as a whole ) is estimated at more than £141 million .

                             the annual social impact on players and  volunteers is estimated at   £185 million

                             Every £1 spent by Rugby League community clubs ( and again that's every club in the game ) in sport generates a social return of £4.08.

Maybe that's why the Government has put up a £16 million loan before looking at any other sports . Congrats where congrats are due....           

                             

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Cheers for clearing it up. Shame that it’s not extended to Wales but I’d rather have this money based on it not being able to cover all clubs than not having any. 

Agreed!

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20 minutes ago, del capo said:

Yesterday the RFL issued a key message to all RFL Council members together with a document  headed ' The Rugby League Dividend Report ' . A report prepared by experts in their fields and running to 25 pages.

Conclusions  -   the annual economic impact  of RL community clubs ( that's the game as a whole ) is estimated at more than £141 million .

                             the annual social impact on players and  volunteers is estimated at   £185 million

                             Every £1 spent by Rugby League community clubs ( and again that's every club in the game ) in sport generates a social return of £4.08.

Maybe that's why the Government has put up a £16 million loan before looking at any other sports . Congrats where congrats are due....           

                             

  Ahead of the game those much maligned RFL chaps and chapesses - https://www2.mmu.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/story/10883/

  Also that former MP,now mayor fella.


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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On 01/05/2020 at 12:43, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Rimmer's comment about conversations being needed about the Crusaders and West Wales Raiders was a tad worrying for expansionists like me. Are the two of us going to be effectively dumped?

unfortunately after devolution  sports and community funding in wales was taken over by the Welsh Assembly. so neither  club qualify for this handout

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1 hour ago, Bostik Bailey said:

Is dat roight father

That would be an ecumenical matter. 

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2 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

 

We are in danger of going round in circles with this conversation! 

It isn't the rules of the scheme that is the issue, HW.  It is where, geographically, the scheme can legally be applied, which, as I understand it, is England, because sport is a devolved issue.

I cannot see how a one-off exemption could be worked out, wiganermike.  The Treasury auditors would, quite rightly, come down like the proverbial ton of bricks on whoever at DCMS sanctioned such a thing.  So, I fancy, would a number of back-bench MPs, as it would be political dynamite.

I am a Scot who supports devolution.  However, and because of that, I fully accept that you cannot suddenly go pathetically pleading for UK government intervention in an area of life which you have been pleased and proud to see devolved to your native land.  As the saying goes, "You pays yer money and you takes yer choice!"

You may well be right about the feasibility of a one off exemption but the answer Ralph Rimmer gave when asked about which clubs were eligible included reference to conversations about the Welsh clubs' inability to access it. Maybe that conversation would be hoped to be with the Welsh devolved government rather than trying to get a workaround?

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1 hour ago, wiganermike said:

You may well be right about the feasibility of a one off exemption but the answer Ralph Rimmer gave when asked about which clubs were eligible included reference to conversations about the Welsh clubs' inability to access it. Maybe that conversation would be hoped to be with the Welsh devolved government rather than trying to get a workaround?

Pretty upbeat message on the WWR website from their CEO a couple of days ago. They seem to think they'll be OK. One thing you can say about WWR, even at the worst times on and off the field they've stayed optimistic. A lesson for all in RL! 

https://www.raidersrugbyleague.co.uk/post/west-wales-raiders-ceo-peter-tiffin-provides-an-update-on-the-club-during-lockdown

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