BLM

[M j M]

52 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

Perhaps educate theplayers about what the BLM movement actually advocates, like defunding the police and rescinding criminal records for BAME criminals... Oh, and overturning our society as we know it and crushing capitalism (which deleloped the phones, tablets and PCs on which some of you will rubbish my post). 

BLM is a Marxist organisation that seeks to put a wedge between races.

And there it is. The on-script trope that deliberately conflates why people are protesting with an organisation which bears the name but nobody actually subscribes to. All in an attempt to preserve the status quo. 

[johnh1]

It is the orchestrated way of doing the ‘take the knee’ that I object to. Ref blows the whistle. Players take the knee. If players want to take the knee, they can do it during the warm up or at anytime before the start of play, just like some players do the sign of the cross. By doing it in an orchestrated manner, it creates the problem if certain players do not wish to take the knee. Not taking the knee does not mean that you are racist.

[Robin Evans]

9 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

Not taking the knee does not mean that you are racist.

Absobloodylootley

[Pyjamarama]

Taking the knee for a minute before a game unfortunately hasn't eradicated racism, so we must increase the dose. One minute on the left knee then one minute on the right knee. If that doesn't work, a minute on each knee at the start of the second half as well, then review every 3 months.

How about also introducing a one minute jump up & down against global warming, then for 2021 a one minute pre-match hokey kokey against foxhunting.  

 

[Robin Evans]

3 minutes ago, Pyjamarama said:

Taking the knee for a minute before a game unfortunately hasn't eradicated racism, so we must increase the dose. One minute on the left knee then one minute on the right knee. If that doesn't work, a minute on each knee at the start of the second half as well, then review every 3 months.

How about also introducing a one minute jump up & down against global warming, then for 2021 a one minute pre-match hokey kokey against foxhunting.  

 

I think you're onto something.......

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

16 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

 Not taking the knee does not mean that you are racist.

And, of course, vice versa!

[redjonn]

44 minutes ago, M j M said:

And there it is. The on-script trope that deliberately conflates why people are protesting with an organisation which bears the name but nobody actually subscribes to. All in an attempt to preserve the status quo. 

I went back and read the contributing comment following your comment.

As far as can read I don't see a direct connection between his/her views on a political group that take the name BLM (as distinct from a laudable movement we know as  BLM) to say the contributor wants to maintain the status quo.

I assume you think its implied in his/her referencing the political group in order to tarnish the movement. Surely your doing precisely what you are objecting too.. that is using your words "on script trope" conflating a negative opinion on the particular group to being for the status quo. The status quo I assume from implication meaning he/she is racialist and anyone that question this particular organisation overall objectives (as distinct from the laudable overall BLM movement) is racialist.  

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

The problem is that there's a fairly massive gap - decades wide now - between our positive history and today. Today, we are not remotely an inclusive sport. Shown by your own observation that there is no obvious anti-racism campaign led by rugby league.

Which is why a 70% vote from League Express readers is not remotely a surprise.

In what way is RL any less inclusive than other sports? 

[Robin Evans]

I'll give this thread a few more posts before its binned due it sailing over the political line!!

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

In what way is RL any less inclusive than other sports? 

Off the top of my head, we had a second tier player insinuating racism on Twitter (whatever happened to that?), Jermaine Coleman of Jamaica and London Skolars alleging racism in one of the nationals (again, whatever happened to that) and now the 70% of those who voted in a Rugby League publication being against the stand taken. 

Also factor in, was it Michael Lawrence’s (I think it was him) claim that his skin colour has held him back, some observations from Jermaine McGilvray about being a black athlete in Rugby League and last year’s Argyle/Jose Kenga racism and it doesn’t look like it’s inclusive at all. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I think thats more to do with where the sport is played. For example moving from inner East Leeds to Wakefield in the early 2010s it was a massive change just how white the latter place is by contrast to the former. Naturally then the demographics of amateur teams from one vs the other are going to be massively different.

Barring Huddersfield, London and Leeds, the vast majority of our games bases are in towns like Wakefield. In that sense its unsurprising that anti-racism hasn't been top of the list of priorities for the leading figures in the game.

Just because something was a while ago doesn't mean its irrelevant or not something to be built upon. Positive action requires a fundamentally positive base, no matter how big, to build on.

Like I said, the racism reported by those in the game today is less of the overt stuff BLM is focussed on. Its far more nuanced.

The overt stuff BLM is focussed on especially those we are witness to from across the pond, could be precisely why people are turning against it, if that is the correct phrase to use with the results of the League Express poll.

[Sports Prophet]

I didn’t realise there is still a routine for this. I don’t think a routine is necessary, if a player wants to run out into position and take a knee until the whistle, that’s his prerogative.

[RigbyLuger]

Do you think Mr. Sadler's biggest fan regrets putting Wayne Godwin in blackface for amusement on his show?

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

 

54 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

It is the orchestrated way of doing the ‘take the knee’ that I object to. Ref blows the whistle. Players take the knee. If players want to take the knee, they can do it during the warm up or at anytime before the start of play, just like some players do the sign of the cross. By doing it in an orchestrated manner, it creates the problem if certain players do not wish to take the knee. Not taking the knee does not mean that you are racist.

The thing works on white guilt,  I have none I don't care what colour someone is.   I dont only have friends and family of the same race.

I don't feel guilt-ed into supporting this.   I see it as a marxist movement, causing social unrest while world has time on its hands. 

In America you have the whole slavery hangover.

 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

7 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Do you think Mr. Sadler's biggest fan regrets putting Wayne Godwin in blackface for amusement on his show?

ouch! Not cool.

[Dunbar]

I would expect the formal pre-match routine managed by the ref and observed by the players (kneeling or standing) will be ended in the new season.

However, of course it is right for all the players to decide of they choose to take a moment to kneel before kickoff in respect of and in support of the BLM movement.  This is all about freedom of choice.  Players can choose to stand today and players can choose to kneel tomorrow or next week or next year.

Personally if I were on a rugby pitch today I would kneel for a few moments before kick off.  That would be my choice.

I have seen enough over the last 25 years to understand that the colour of a person's skin unfortunately does have an impact on how they are treated across many institutions and it is an uncomfortable truth that needs to be recognised so that it can be resolved.

The question I ask myself is whether a 25 year version of me would have had the awareness and resolve to do the same.  Sadly, I think the answer would have been no.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

52 minutes ago, Pyjamarama said:

Taking the knee for a minute before a game unfortunately hasn't eradicated racism, so we must increase the dose. One minute on the left knee then one minute on the right knee. If that doesn't work, a minute on each knee at the start of the second half as well, then review every 3 months.

How about also introducing a one minute jump up & down against global warming, then for 2021 a one minute pre-match hokey kokey against foxhunting.  

 

When black celebrities and angry young men are coming out and making statements that white people are the enemy.

I don't see it making society a better place.  Racists want to outline we are different and not the same.

Its going to recruit more people to the far-right if anything.

 

[Robin Evans]

6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

The question I ask myself is whether a 25 year version of me would have had the awareness and resolve to do the same.  Sadly, I think the answer would have been no.

I think when I was 25 I would have knelt due to.peer pressure.

I'm 60 in a few weeks. I wouldn't kneel now.

[Just Browny]

34 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I'll give this thread a few more posts before its binned due it sailing over the political line!!

Pretty sure Martyn will wait to see who is winning first before deciding whether it is 'political' or not.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I'm 60 in a few weeks. I wouldn't kneel now.

You're 60. You can't kneel and get back up inside a minute. The point is moot.

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I'm 60 in a few weeks. I wouldn't kneel now.

Dodgy knees?

[Robin Evans]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Dodgy knees?

Dodgy from the scalp down mate!

[Tre Cool]

21 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

 

The thing works on white guilt,  I have none I don't care what colour someone is.   I dont only have friends and family of the same race.

I don't feel guilt-ed into supporting this.   I see it as a marxist movement, causing social unrest while world has time on its hands. 

In America you have the whole slavery hangover.

 

What has it got to do with Marxism?  Absolutely nothing.  Do you know what Marxism is?

It isn't about white guilt it's about campaigning for meaningful change to complex issues of systemic racism which make some people's life far more difficult.  It's not about an individual white person being a 'racist'.  It's about accepting that a group of people have less chances than another group of people based on the colour of their skin and trying to do something about it.

Martyn Sadler seems to think that RL shouldn't be included in this conversation as we have a relatively good record with equality.   But it's all relative and I don't see many black players making it into top coaching jobs, or working in top admin jobs at clubs or the RFL.  A number of players have come out and detailed their personal experiences of racism at clubs in RL.  I know for a fact some RL supporters are openly racist.

Why shouldn't we as a sport reflect on this and make some efforts to improve on this?

Why does it offend so many people, and apparently League Express itself,  that players want to highlight the problem and ask for some changes to make the world a slightly fairer place?

That's all it's about.

Not Marxism, not guilt, not politicising sport. 

Get over yourselves.

[John Drake]

38 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Pretty sure Martyn will wait to see who is winning first before deciding whether it is 'political' or not.

It’ll be me and ckn who decide whether this thread stays open or not, or if it gets punted into the political sub forum. 

It’ll have a better chance if it stays on topic (RL related) and avoids personal abuse, same as any other thread on here. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Off the top of my head, we had a second tier player insinuating racism on Twitter (whatever happened to that?), Jermaine Coleman of Jamaica and London Skolars alleging racism in one of the nationals (again, whatever happened to that) and now the 70% of those who voted in a Rugby League publication being against the stand taken. 

Also factor in, was it Michael Lawrence’s (I think it was him) claim that his skin colour has held him back, some observations from Jermaine McGilvray about being a black athlete in Rugby League and last year’s Argyle/Jose Kenga racism and it doesn’t look like it’s inclusive at all. 

My question wasn’t to think of some instances of racism, but how is RL less inclusive than other sports? Are you saying all other sports don’t have similar issues?