Wakefield Trinity plans submision

[Trojan Horse]

2 hours ago, Morris Wanchuk said:

When Glover was in charge & pushing cheap tickets we were getting 7 of 8000 most home games & we got 10000 at home to Leeds back then. There is still a lot of latent support for the club in the city, it’s just being in the doldrums for that long it became an object of derision. This guy appears to be the real deal and hopefully will get those stay away fans back on board. He’s talking about a new training facility now, I’m still pinching myself! 

There’s a new gym, locker rooms and workout rooms to be built yet on this stage of the plans in a refurbishment of the south east interior. 

[Kirmonds pouch]

12 hours ago, Trojan Horse said:

There’s a new gym, locker rooms and workout rooms to be built yet on this stage of the plans in a refurbishment of the south east interior. 

Wouldn't surprise me if that got shelved, and Ellis looks at a more ambitious plan for the South end of the ground. It is far easier to develop than the West or North terrace, it has a large footprint, easily accessible, few if any planning issues. Depends on timescales, a return to SL, and the increase in demand should we become competitive.

[burke]

15 hours ago, Morris Wanchuk said:

When Glover was in charge & pushing cheap tickets we were getting 7 of 8000 most home games & we got 10000 at home to Leeds back then. There is still a lot of latent support for the club in the city, it’s just being in the doldrums for that long it became an object of derision. This guy appears to be the real deal and hopefully will get those stay away fans back on board. He’s talking about a new training facility now, I’m still pinching myself! 

In the Glover days the announced crowd figures were laughable, no way on Gods Green Earth did they represent the actual numbers in the ground. Regulars at Belle Vue would suggest 4000 in today and the crowd was given as 8000, it was a joke . 

[Leyther_Matt]

1 hour ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Wouldn't surprise me if that got shelved, and Ellis looks at a more ambitious plan for the South end of the ground. It is far easier to develop than the West or North terrace, it has a large footprint, easily accessible, few if any planning issues. Depends on timescales, a return to SL, and the increase in demand should we become competitive.

Wonder if there’s a school of thought in building a new terrace at the south end (nominally the away end as a result, I expect) and taking advantage of the reduced space on the western side and re-creating the Benidorm end along that side with a naturally increased number of hospitality boxes, maybe a ground floor pitch-length bar facility or something those lines. All planning dependent, of course.

Or they could always build a snooker club along that side  

[RigbyLuger]

51 minutes ago, burke said:

In the Glover days the announced crowd figures were laughable, no way on Gods Green Earth did they represent the actual numbers in the ground. Regulars at Belle Vue would suggest 4000 in today and the crowd was given as 8000, it was a joke . 

People have forgotten how much of a mess that the club was left in by Glover and his sidekick.

[Kirmonds pouch]

1 hour ago, burke said:

In the Glover days the announced crowd figures were laughable, no way on Gods Green Earth did they represent the actual numbers in the ground. Regulars at Belle Vue would suggest 4000 in today and the crowd was given as 8000, it was a joke . 

You’re wrong.

The crowds given were correct, legal requirement.

What was total bull was that half of those were freebies, hence the inevitable bankruptcy.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

People have forgotten how much of a mess that the club was left in by Glover and his sidekick.

Since Trinity lost its 1960's sugar daddy it's been a real hot potato at virtually every handover until this latest transition broke the mould.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Wollo Wollo Wayoo

[GeordieSaint]

A couple of you had mentioned plans for the West Stand. Have they been released or still at the concept stage? 

[dboy]

4 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

A couple of you had mentioned plans for the West Stand. Have they been released or still at the concept stage? 

Just the verbal suggestions from the new owner.

Would be nice to have some tangible plans, but he has only just got his coat off in reality.

[burke]

1 hour ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

Since Trinity lost its 1960's sugar daddy it's been a real hot potato at virtually every handover until this latest transition broke the mould.

Not sure about that, 2022 accounts showed a £ 400,000 trading loss. Michael Carter advised at a share holders meeting that 2023 accounts would show a bigger loss than 2022. £ 3 million loan to repay on purchase of ground, £ 900,000 Covid load to repay. The two major shareholders advising that they would not be putting money in. The balance sheet propped up by unsaleable assets. So basically without a major cash injection the club would not have made it to November as it would have simply run out of cash. Thank all the Gods that along came Matt Ellis as financially it seems it was a basket case on the brink of collapse  

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

3 hours ago, burke said:

Not sure about that, 2022 accounts showed a £ 400,000 trading loss. Michael Carter advised at a share holders meeting that 2023 accounts would show a bigger loss than 2022. £ 3 million loan to repay on purchase of ground, £ 900,000 Covid load to repay. The two major shareholders advising that they would not be putting money in. The balance sheet propped up by unsaleable assets. So basically without a major cash injection the club would not have made it to November as it would have simply run out of cash. Thank all the Gods that along came Matt Ellis as financially it seems it was a basket case on the brink of collapse  

The hand over happened in an orderly, if somewhat protracted, manner.

What might have, could have or would have is no comparison to the many actual council bale-outs, player fire sales, CVAs, hours from bankruptcies and winding up orders we've lived through since the end of the 60's

Edited December 19, 2023 by Wollo Wollo Wayoo

[Kirmonds pouch]

3 hours ago, burke said:

Not sure about that, 2022 accounts showed a £ 400,000 trading loss. Michael Carter advised at a share holders meeting that 2023 accounts would show a bigger loss than 2022. £ 3 million loan to repay on purchase of ground, £ 900,000 Covid load to repay. The two major shareholders advising that they would not be putting money in. The balance sheet propped up by unsaleable assets. So basically without a major cash injection the club would not have made it to November as it would have simply run out of cash. Thank all the Gods that along came Matt Ellis as financially it seems it was a basket case on the brink of collapse  

Again you’re astonishingly wrong, but you speak with such authority that you’re almost believable.

Trinity under the previous regime were hand to mouth but compared to some SL clubs they were positively solvent.

On sale Trinity had by way of a new stand, pitch, floodlights etc received an 8 million pound cash injection for free! They may not be saleable assets as you laughably put it but as of now they are money earners giving a 100% return on profits  - no repayments, debt free. No wonder Ellis wanted the club, he’s technically received 8 million pounds worth of free investment.

The club cost him very little in real terms, which is why he can afford to invest and subsidise. In RL terms he may well have landed the bargain of the century, just wait and see.

[Trojan Horse]

25 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Again you’re astonishingly wrong, but you speak with such authority that you’re almost believable.

Trinity under the previous regime were hand to mouth but compared to some SL clubs they were positively solvent.

On sale Trinity had by way of a new stand, pitch, floodlights etc received an 8 million pound cash injection for free! They may not be saleable assets as you laughably put it but as of now they are money earners giving a 100% return on profits  - no repayments, debt free. No wonder Ellis wanted the club, he’s technically received 8 million pounds worth of free investment.

The club cost him very little in real terms, which is why he can afford to invest and subsidise. In RL terms he may well have landed the bargain of the century, just wait and see.

Would t bother wasting your breath. Like all the loans would instantly become due at once all in November. Absolutely makes me wonder how some people get out of bed in the morning. 

[Ragingbull]

4 hours ago, burke said:

Not sure about that, 2022 accounts showed a £ 400,000 trading loss. Michael Carter advised at a share holders meeting that 2023 accounts would show a bigger loss than 2022. £ 3 million loan to repay on purchase of ground, £ 900,000 Covid load to repay. The two major shareholders advising that they would not be putting money in. The balance sheet propped up by unsaleable assets. So basically without a major cash injection the club would not have made it to November as it would have simply run out of cash. Thank all the Gods that along came Matt Ellis as financially it seems it was a basket case on the brink of collapse  

Spot on

[Morris Wanchuk]

7 hours ago, burke said:

In the Glover days the announced crowd figures were laughable, no way on Gods Green Earth did they represent the actual numbers in the ground. Regulars at Belle Vue would suggest 4000 in today and the crowd was given as 8000, it was a joke . 

Were you there then? ###### business model, nearly bankrupt the club but he sold dirt cheap season tickets & handed out freebie’s, it was packed out! This guy is pushing affordable season & people have responded. The attendances discussed earlier are possible. 

 

 

[Morris Wanchuk]

8 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

People have forgotten how much of a mess that the club was left in by Glover and his sidekick.

No ones forgotten anything, we weren’t talking about how he ran the club, just the attendances.

 

[Leyther_Matt]

8 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

You’re wrong.

The crowds given were correct, legal requirement.

What was total bull was that half of those were freebies, hence the inevitable bankruptcy.

Not saying you’re right or wrong either way in Wakey’s particular case, but what I can tell you is there is absolutely zero legal requirement in terms of ‘announced’ attendances. Clubs can literally announce the crowd as whatever you like (and they do).

The actual, physical attendance is of course recorded as part of safety officer reports for each match (and submitted to local area SAGs and RLGSOA) but you would need to submit a freedom of information request to your local council. 

[burke]

15 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Again you’re astonishingly wrong, but you speak with such authority that you’re almost believable.

Trinity under the previous regime were hand to mouth but compared to some SL clubs they were positively solvent.

On sale Trinity had by way of a new stand, pitch, floodlights etc received an 8 million pound cash injection for free! They may not be saleable assets as you laughably put it but as of now they are money earners giving a 100% return on profits  - no repayments, debt free. No wonder Ellis wanted the club, he’s technically received 8 million pounds worth of free investment.

The club cost him very little in real terms, which is why he can afford to invest and subsidise. In RL terms he may well have landed the bargain of the century, just wait and see.

Would be interested to know how you believe the previous owners would have been able to continue trading, approx £ 1 million trading loss 2022/23, directors on record saying they were not putting any money in, overheads previously cut to the bone meaning zero cash in the business, loans could not be serviced and even the interest on the loans could not be serviced. No assets to sell ie players, no money to pre order kit, season ticket sales of less that 1000, no money to employ people to manage the new stand. No clients to use the new stand. No cash to the point that  they were planning to use the old kitchen equipment from the Benidorm stand in the new stand. Without new investors the club was dead.

You say Ellis has a bargain, he has taken on a 6 million debt, invested £ 1.4 million in this years squad, is planning major upgrades to 3 sides of the ground, is planning on financing a SL squad if we are fortunate to get in SL, looking at building a bespoke training facility. In your world this may be considered a bargain, in the real world this is a labour of love. I for one am faint and pleased that Matt Ellis has quite simply saved us from oblivion.  

[dboy]

42 minutes ago, burke said:

 approx £ 1 million trading loss 2022/23,

Interested in where you are getting this from.

[burke]

49 minutes ago, dboy said:

Interested in where you are getting this from.

2022 accounts show approx £ 400,000 trading loss, that's there for all to see. Michael Carter at one of the shareholder meetings for the people who had put in their £ 500 ( think there were 49 people ) in 2023 advised that 2023 accounts would show a bigger trading loss than 2022 accounts, so that's where I get my approx £ 1 million trading loss. I actually think that if Matt Ellis had not taken on the debt and no other major new money was coming in then the club would have been  accused of trading whilst insolvent. I did hear that the talks had been taking place between the directors and the Brazilian outfit that have some sort interest in the Football Club that play out of Belle Vue. Thank goodness for Matt Ellis a Christmas miracle  

[dboy]

13 minutes ago, burke said:

2022 accounts show approx £ 400,000 trading loss, that's there for all to see. Michael Carter at one of the shareholder meetings for the people who had put in their £ 500 ( think there were 49 people ) in 2023 advised that 2023 accounts would show a bigger trading loss than 2022 accounts, so that's where I get my approx £ 1 million trading loss. I actually think that if Matt Ellis had not taken on the debt and no other major new money was coming in then the club would have been  accused of trading whilst insolvent. I did hear that the talks had been taking place between the directors and the Brazilian outfit that have some sort interest in the Football Club that play out of Belle Vue. Thank goodness for Matt Ellis a Christmas miracle  

I'm only guessing here, but you didn't go to the London School of Economics, did you??

[burke]

24 minutes ago, dboy said:

I'm only guessing here, but you didn't go to the London School of Economics, did you??

 

24 minutes ago, dboy said:

I'm only guessing here, but you didn't go to the London School of Economics, did you??

No The University of Lagos or that is what it said on the certificate I purchased 

[Agbrigg]

4 hours ago, dboy said:

Interested in where you are getting this from.

I have spoken to the accountant who worked for Ellis in the negotiations and was responsible for the the due diligence. He obviously would not tell me any exact  financial details but he did say the club was technically insolvent . Plus the financial projections through to next season looked like the club could not survive.

Let's not forget, Matt Ellis put in a decent amount of money during the take over period before he owned the club and this also helped the trading situation. 

OK you may not believe it, that's up to you. But from more than one person I have spoken to in the Ellis team, the statement that Burke makes is very close to reality.

[OMEGA]

19 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

I have spoken to the accountant who worked for Ellis in the negotiations and was responsible for the the due diligence. He obviously would not tell me any exact  financial details but he did say the club was technically insolvent . Plus the financial projections through to next season looked like the club could not survive.

Let's not forget, Matt Ellis put in a decent amount of money during the take over period before he owned the club and this also helped the trading situation. 

OK you may not believe it, that's up to you. But from more than one person I have spoken to in the Ellis team, the statement that Burke makes is very close to reality.

It’s very close to what I’ve heard too.

Ive also heard that once his duties have finished, which I think they're probably done by now, Carter won’t get a particularly warm welcome from Matt Ellis should he attend any games.

Minards on the other hand has been a real help to Ellis during the take over and would be welcomed back to enjoy a game anytime

Edited December 20, 2023 by OMEGA

[dboy]

2 hours ago, Agbrigg said:

I have spoken to the accountant who worked for Ellis in the negotiations...

OK you may not believe it, that's up to you. But from more than one person I have spoken to in the Ellis team, the statement that Burke makes is very close to reality.

No, what I don't believe is that Ellis's team is staffed by a platoon of loose-lipped gob-jobs.

It's my own fault for reading internet forums, but Jesus..!

Edited December 20, 2023 by dboy