Alleged racism

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It has nothing to do with me. Or you. Or our opinions. This is a serious accusation and should be treated as such. Polynesians are a minority in this country and what has been alleged just isn’t acceptable here anymore, whether people agree with that or not. Arguing the semantics around it and whether it’s actually racist or not misses the point altogether. It’s also been said at a time when there’s heightened sensitivity around racism and discrimination and just before a pretty comprehensive social media blackout from some of the biggest names in sport on the planet. 

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I have said what has been alleged (if it happened) is unacceptable. I’m asking if you’d feel the same way and expect the same punishment if someone said similar to an English player. 

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Eddie said:

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I have said what has been alleged (if it happened) is unacceptable. I’m asking if you’d feel the same way and expect the same punishment if someone said similar to an English player. 

You’re missing the point and arguing semantics. 

[dealwithit]

English is not a race. Calling someone an Aussie ... is not racist. 
Polynesian is a racial/linguistic group, not a nationality. Using this in the manner mentioned is racist. 

[Maximus Decimus]

4 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

It was second item on the BBC World Service sports news last night too, can't remember the last time if ever RL was mentioned on there. It was along the lines of just hours after joining the boycott of social media by sport's and after the players had stood against racism at the start of the match............... Funny that they didn't mention the result of the game, I think a agenda was being met, but it's the stupidity of our game in giving such people the opportunity to put the boot in that annoys me, if proven a lifetime ban is the only way to claw back some dignity.

RL only ever makes it there if it's a scandal. I can remember when we were front page news of the biggest newspaper in the country... for a betting scandal. 

[Copa]

27 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Ha so calling someone by their nationality is racist?  How are we supposed to treat barsteward Australians then?

It’s all context. I’ve been called “Australian [insert insult]” in the UK. Most of it is just vulgar banter which I’m fine with..... but it’s very clear when someone has genuine malicious intent.

I’m still not that fussed but if it came from someone with power over people like me either currently or historically I’d be angry.

but that’s more bigotry and not racism.

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, dealwithit said:

English is not a race. Calling someone an Aussie ... is not racist. 
Polynesian is a racial/linguistic group, not a nationality. Using this in the manner mentioned is racist. 

Indeed.

Disappointed to read some posters arguing to the contrary.   

[redjonn]

5 minutes ago, dealwithit said:

English is not a race. Calling someone an Aussie ... is not racist. 
Polynesian is a racial/linguistic group, not a nationality. Using this in the manner mentioned is racist. 

just so I'm clear on the rational...

if someone calls me an English XXXXX it's not racist.

but if someone calls me an Anglo Saxon XXXX its racist...

either way to me both are offensive depending upon the context...

[DavidM]

Often with things like this it’s how you prove it . If it’s not picked up on mic or by others around I’m not sure where you go , not saying something didn’t happen but if a player is facing a potential sanction you need evidence ?

[Rupert Prince]

14 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

My first reaction to it was that it must have come from an Australian player. Polynesian is a bit of a weird phrase to use over here, but then I suppose if you play RL you'd be more aware of the term.

If it is true, then Clubb is guilty of extreme levels of stupidity. In one foul swoop he will have destroyed his career and reputation. 

I can only assume that southern hemisphereIan's don't get post modern irony like we Brits (can I say that) do.

Whatever Clubb said, he was clearly confronted with something first.  

I for one know nothing of Clubbs background or opinions that might have been voiced elsewhere

But he has worked very closely with his coach for 3 years who is from PNG.  He works closely with several coloured team mates.

The notion which is easily been banded around here that he is racist or casually racist has no evidence at all.   

In my view some are clearly happy to rush to judgement.

[Maximus Decimus]

5 minutes ago, dealwithit said:

English is not a race. Calling someone an Aussie ... is not racist. 
Polynesian is a racial/linguistic group, not a nationality. Using this in the manner mentioned is racist. 

This is a semantic argument though, they can both be used in a harmful and prejudicial way. As a society, we seemed to have decided that it is the literal term that is of true importance rather than the intent.

If an English player makes his debut in the NRL and an opposition player decides he's going to target him for no reason other than that he is English, then that is prejudicial. The same goes if he uses the word Pommy in a detrimental context.

Morally there is very little difference between these actions and those of Clubb's last night. Politically they are much more sensitive but the intent is the same. You are using a feature that somebody had no choice over to abuse them. 

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I also don't think it's right that a Hull player could have called Farrell a ginger count last night and faced no repurcussions whatsoever. 

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

You’re missing the point and arguing semantics. 

I’m not missing the point. I’ve asked you a clear question twice and you’ve chosen to answer by saying I’m missing the point . Don’t bother replying again btw. 

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, redjonn said:

just so I'm clear on the rational...

if someone calls me an English XXXXX it's not racist.

but if someone calls me an Anglo Saxon XXXX its racist...

either way to me both are offensive depending upon the context...

Lets worry about actual racist allegations, not hypothetical situations

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

I’m not missing the point. I’ve asked you a clear question twice and you’ve chosen to answer by saying I’m missing the point . Don’t bother replying again btw. 

Using a minority race or nationality in an insult is racist. It’s genuinely that simple. 

[redjonn]

Just now, Spidey said:

Lets worry about actual racist allegations, not hypothetical situations

maybe but I was just merely trying to understand the specifics of the persons point.

[dealwithit]

5 minutes ago, redjonn said:

just so I'm clear on the rational...

if someone calls me an English XXXXX it's not racist.

but if someone calls me an Anglo Saxon XXXX its racist...

either way to me both are offensive depending upon the context...

According to the British census, the racial group would be White British. 
That’s not to say that the references you make are not offensive, they’re just not racist. 

[Rupert Prince]

33 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Ha so calling someone by their nationality is racist?  How are we supposed to treat barsteward Australians then?

I'm sorry MolK, but why do you suggest that is wierd.

Being pejorative is very common... but its not racist. Be can be pejorative and offensive against say the French.  If a Castleford fan shouted out a pejorative insult against a French player involving slimy  amphibians that jump ... would he be racist?

[dealwithit]

I think it’s really important for our community that we don’t blur our personal opinions on what we personally find offensive with what is racist. The latter is less about opinion and more the interpretation of law. 

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Lets worry about actual racist allegations, not hypothetical situations

Quite.

But we must whatabout it until it is actually us who are the real victims here.

[Hela Wigmen]

8 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Often with things like this it’s how you prove it . If it’s not picked up on mic or by others around I’m not sure where you go , not saying something didn’t happen but if a player is facing a potential sanction you need evidence ?

Exactly this. Evidence, or the lack of it, is vital in cases like this. We’ll have to see what the investigations bring. 

[gingerjon]

Wigan have suspended Tony Clubb pending the result of an investigation.

[egm]

It's 2021 and you still have to explain why what was allegedly said was racist. Christ.

[Tommygilf]

 

[JohnM]

13 minutes ago, egm said:

It's 2021 and you still have to explain why what was allegedly said was racist. Christ.

I find your use of the word Christ in that context wholly offensive and as such merits consideration for action

Racist and religious hate crime - Citizens Advice

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Bingo.

You only hurl insults if you think they're insulting.

 Something is a racist or religious hate incident if the victim or anyone else thinks it was carried out because of hostility or prejudice based on race or religion.

 

[Davo5]

19 minutes ago, egm said:

It's 2021 and you still have to explain why what was allegedly said was racist. Christ.

Now don’t start bringing religion into the mix.