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15 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Aussies being used as shorthand for "hypocritical Australian rugby league administrators" is a bit different from it being used as a racist insult.

 

4 hours ago, MidlandsJohn said:

I can imagine it was along the lines off "###### off back to Poland" screamed by someone who couldn't even point out Poland on a map.

I`ve frequently heard underperforming white Aussie players told to go back home by English RL crowds. That`s never characterized as racist.

British progressives instinctively go further in censure of Americans and Australians than people of other nations. It could be because at some level they see them as part of the same ethnic group and thus their equals. This entails the type of disturbing conflation of race with nationality they would usually associate with their political opponents.

If English Soccer players face crowd abuse in Eastern Europe, it`s important to know whether they were targeted for their race or their nationality.

The considerations are different in domestic club games. If labelling the Mikolaj Oledzki incident as "racist abuse" helps stamp it out, then all well and good. But I`d rather it were part of an attempt to reduce vile behaviour generally. We might then get more people through the gates.

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7 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

There is unfortunately a certain demographic that follows Rugby League that is infested with racists, across a number of clubs.

This demographic is probably not one that the clubs (or even RL as a whole) can afford to turn away, as they make up a substantial proportion of the fanbase (not all of whom are racists of course) and the clubs cannot really be too choosy about who they let in when they are so desperately short of both customers and income. 

It is a serious problem for the sport, as without getting substantially richer (very unlikely to happen) the game will find it very difficult to rid itself of this minority. In short, the sport in its current format, attracts "these type of people". 

As is alluded to elsewhere on the thread, education has to be at least part of the way forward. 

I'm not convinced that's the case. I started following RL actively in 1996 and up until a couple of years ago, attended hundreds of games in many locations. In all those games, I never once (and I mean once) heard any racist abuse chanted or shouted at individual players. Had I heard anyone call any player a 'black xxxx' I'd certainly have challenged them on it. (Which I have done in real life on different occasions)

Now, I accept this doesn't mean there aren't racist people out there who are also RL fans, in fact I can think of at least one. But I'd suggest it's certainly not as widespread as you are claiming.

As for the Poles, they are some of the soundest lads you will ever meet. 

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I don't think getting involved in pedantry about definitions of racism is too helpful, and misses the point somewhat. 

I agree with the points about life bans - until we do the same with players, how can we do that to the fans looking up to them? I support tough sanctions, a ban with the option of a reduction if the person engages in community work/education with anti-racist group. 

As an aside, I don't like Wire's terse responses to incidents like this. The whole - we will not comment further statement feels unnecessary. They did the same after our inspirational coach used a highly offensive word, and we heard no more on it. We did however see an article in the local press a couple of weeks later that smacked of propoganda. We should always be willing to discuss uncomfortable truths, maybe the club would benefit from not shutting down discussions. 

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59 minutes ago, Dave T said:

As an aside, I don't like Wire's terse responses to incidents like this. The whole - we will not comment further statement feels unnecessary. They did the same after our inspirational coach used a highly offensive word, and we heard no more on it. We did however see an article in the local press a couple of weeks later that smacked of propoganda. We should always be willing to discuss uncomfortable truths, maybe the club would benefit from not shutting down discussions. 

It’s a fairly stock response I’d agree, but the club also have previous for driving for a positive outcome in situations like this before, so I won’t be too quick to pull the trigger.

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/17836500.super-league-referee-meets-fan-sent-online-death-threat/

 

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17 minutes ago, Alffi 7 said:

It’s a fairly stock response I’d agree, but the club also have previous for driving for a positive outcome in situations like this before, so I won’t be too quick to pull the trigger.

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/17836500.super-league-referee-meets-fan-sent-online-death-threat/

 

So what have the club done about their Head Coach using the word m*ng live on National TV, something that attracted plenty of public condemnation and reflected badly on the club? 

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6 hours ago, Johnoco said:

I'm not convinced that's the case. I started following RL actively in 1996 and up until a couple of years ago, attended hundreds of games in many locations. In all those games, I never once (and I mean once) heard any racist abuse chanted or shouted at individual players.  

When I first started going to Swinton, we had Danny Wilson, Alva Drummond, and for a short spell Green Vigo, so our team were more likely than most to attract racial abuse.

In those early 80s years, which were very different times, I noted only one incident home or away. That was at The Willows where a horrid little person shouted something about Danny a few times. We were incognito, surrounded by Salford fans, so not in a position to say anything, but I gave him a Paddington-style hard stare. Everybody else completely ignored him, and before long he piped down.

This was all in marked contrast to Soccer fans at that time.

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't think getting involved in pedantry about definitions of racism is too helpful, and misses the point somewhat. 

For an allegation to be taken seriously, it needs to be clearly defined. If a white Australian player reported abuse related to his country of origin, similar to that received by a player born in Poland, there would have to be a credible account given why one was racism but the other was not.

As a means to an end, I`d be happy for referees to be classed as a race if it limited the vituperation routinely aimed at them, but clearly the term would then be meaningless.

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6 hours ago, Johnoco said:

I'm not convinced that's the case. I started following RL actively in 1996 and up until a couple of years ago, attended hundreds of games in many locations. In all those games, I never once (and I mean once) heard any racist abuse chanted or shouted at individual players. Had I heard anyone call any player a 'black xxxx' I'd certainly have challenged them on it. (Which I have done in real life on different occasions)

Now, I accept this doesn't mean there aren't racist people out there who are also RL fans, in fact I can think of at least one. But I'd suggest it's certainly not as widespread as you are claiming.

As for the Poles, they are some of the soundest lads you will ever meet. 

Well I've heard plenty in the crowd and on the pitch.

It was lessening over most of the period I've been watching.

It was particularly prevalent when Ikram Butt was playing.

The general level of this has been increasing once again which is not surprising given the state of play in the country as a whole and the north in particular.

We often point to the lack of ethnic minority group players but in all good conscience I couldn't encougare them to participate no matter how good the sport is to play.

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9 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

For an allegation to be taken seriously, it needs to be clearly defined. If a white Australian player reported abuse related to his country of origin, similar to that received by a player born in Poland, there would have to be a credible account given why one was racism but the other was not.

As a means to an end, I`d be happy for referees to be classed as a race if it limited the vituperation routinely aimed at them, but clearly the term would then be meaningless.

We don't know what was said, I don't think. 

Could calling somebody a Polish effer not be as offensive as calling someone a Pakistani effer? Would they not be wrapped under racism? Or is it only if the words Polish or Pakistani are replaced with slightly different words? 

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29 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

In those early 80s years, which were very different times,

They were not different times UP racism increases or decreases according to other criteria or reasons. There has never beem a historical get of jail free for prejudice, bias or racism.

It's always there but the attitude of the rest of us that lets the Genie out of the lamp, as well how often and to what purpose. Our views of it don't change with time, our tolerance of it does.

I can't count the number of fights my wife has nearly got me into pulling up people who've said something and telling them to go and watch football where they'll be more that welcome.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

When I first started going to Swinton, we had Danny Wilson, Alva Drummond, and for a short spell Green Vigo, so our team were more likely than most to attract racial abuse.

In those early 80s years, which were very different times, I noted only one incident home or away. That was at The Willows where a horrid little person shouted something about Danny a few times. We were incognito, surrounded by Salford fans, so not in a position to say anything, but I gave him a Paddington-style hard stare. Everybody else completely ignored him, and before long he piped down.

This was all in marked contrast to Soccer fans at that time.

Yes. If I'd experienced even a basic amount of racism at the games I'd attended - and I'm talking, say,  5 or 6 instances - I might think it wasn't as good as I might imagine. But to hear no racist abuse at players in all those games, suggests to me it's not quite the NF fest some might infer. 

Which of course, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I can only base these things on my experience. But I must stress I am specifically talking about colour here.

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3 hours ago, Oxford said:

They were not different times UP racism increases or decreases according to other criteria or reasons. There has never beem a historical get of jail free for prejudice, bias or racism.

It's always there but the attitude of the rest of us that lets the Genie out of the lamp, as well how often and to what purpose. Our views of it don't change with time, our tolerance of it does.

I can't count the number of fights my wife has nearly got me into pulling up people who've said something and telling them to go and watch football where they'll be more that welcome.

They were different times, the mainstream Western view on racism presently (whichI concur with) is completely different to the view anywhere at any other time throughout history, or indeed the view in many other parts of the world now. 

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of course we should be stamping out any racial abuse....

but to be frank I find the general level of verbal abuse at games offensive. We just seem to ignore it and as such its taken as acceptable. Especially as we in general like to portray it as family friendly.  For a drunken idiot or someone that way inclined its only another step to adding racial aspects to it without that person really thinking of what he is saying.

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working down south i have been called a northern inbred bersterd more than once- to which i reply "oi ,i might be from the north but am not a berstred" - hes a big boy from poland - all grown up and that - playing in front of hostile spectators who support other clubs as his job - polish is not a race - everybody STOP been pathetic!

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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24 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

working down south i have been called a northern inbred bersterd more than once- to which i reply "oi ,i might be from the north but am not a berstred" - hes a big boy from poland - all grown up and that - playing in front of hostile spectators who support other clubs as his job - polish is not a race - everybody STOP been pathetic!

Id guess you’d probably not call Oledski pathetic to his face?

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29 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

working down south i have been called a northern inbred bersterd more than once- to which i reply "oi ,i might be from the north but am not a berstred" - hes a big boy from poland - all grown up and that - playing in front of hostile spectators who support other clubs as his job - polish is not a race - everybody STOP been pathetic!

Quite right polish is what you use on your shoes. Being Polish is another matter, yet again you’re defending racist comments. It’s sad

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32 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

working down south i have been called a northern inbred bersterd more than once- to which i reply "oi ,i might be from the north but am not a berstred" - hes a big boy from poland - all grown up and that - playing in front of hostile spectators who support other clubs as his job - polish is not a race - everybody STOP been pathetic!

Most of this is not worth replying to.

But I am obliged to ask.  As you have now found your shift key or caps lock key for STOP can you use them more often please.

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22 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Quite right polish is what you use on your shoes. Being Polish is another matter, yet again you’re defending racist comments. It’s sad

no i am not - you know i am not 

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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24 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Most of this is not worth replying to.

But I am obliged to ask.  As you have now found your shift key or caps lock key for STOP can you use them more often please.

my apologies giles flickin brandreth 

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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Many fans especially those from Leeds describe those of us from Hull as 'Cod heads' and chant 'sing when you're fishing etc.

I find this offensive and ignorant especially as though Hull hasn't been a fishing port for decades.

Recently when Lachlan Coote signed for Hull KR it led to a tirade of 'why would he move to a dump like that' comments from Saints fans.

It's offensive.

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since dunbar has attacked me more than once for my inability to use correct grammar I am going to go away crying now -citing the new crime of grammarism its affecting my confidence to type - i will open a support group on twitbook for people who think they could maybe affected by the issue 

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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9 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

Many fans especially those from Leeds describe those of us from Hull as 'Cod heads' and chant 'sing when you're fishing etc.

I find this offensive and ignorant especially as though Hull hasn't been a fishing port for decades.

Recently when Lachlan Coote signed for Hull KR it led to a tirade of 'why would he move to a dump like that' comments from Saints fans.

It's offensive.

its supposed to be offensive- thats what opposing fans do to each other- nobody dies 

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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