Funding cuts could mean the end for Coventry Bears

[Spidey]

Direct link ups between SL clubs and League One clubs could be a way to go. SL club “invests” £50k into the league One club. They then have first dibs on players and can use them for DR etc

[dealwithit]

On 16/09/2021 at 22:26, zylya said:

It's over-simplistic just to look at players that have taken up the game - what about fans who are watching the Bears each week? Fans who are buying RLWC tickets for the Coventry game? But yes, the opportunity cost is definitely the thing to look at.

But of course we're hypothesising, it's a discussion forum. Are you really saying that we can't make any argument unless we have 100% of the stats available to us? How would I even get the figures on who plays RL in the Midlands? Do these figures even exist in a meaningful format? If there was some transparency coming through from the governing body, we might be able to make these calculations more accurately. Based on my opinion of what I see in the game, I see Coventry doing more good work with £50,000 than the 12 Super League clubs, mostly because £50,000 for Cov is a much higher percentage of their budget than £50,000 for the SL clubs.

I mean, if you have all these numbers available, and you can demonstrate quite clearly that I'm wrong then I'd happily change my mind. I just don't see how removing £50,000 from Cov (and all the other League 1 clubs for that matter) is going to help the whole game.

I wasn’t trying to make a point either way with my post. Just offering a way to look at making investment decisions. 
 

But if I was to offer my opinion… IMO £50k with Coventry would bring a far bigger return than that same £50k being split by 12 SL clubs. 
 

It sounds like player numbers in the Midlands, similarly to London, are largely impacted by opportunity and access ie Midlands Academy, Conference League South, Broncos Academy, Amateur leagues etc. 

I’m not convinced YET that having a pro team at the top of the pyramid in your immediate locality leads to a huge take up of players at the junior age groups/academy level. I would have thought it would be very important to have a carrot at the top of the pyramid, but I remember those involved in junior RL in London that the Broncos weren’t on their radar. Largely the matches clashed on the same day and very few junior players went to watch the broncos or follow them closely. That also could be down to the owner/management of the broncos. Or it could be that juniors are wanting to watch the best quality pro teams on TV and not inferior quality in person. 

[rlno1]

2 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

I think you've hit on something here. 

Critics have said "what's 50k to a Supergreed club to keeping L1 afloat"?

Well, rather than just giving the L1 clubs the money with nothing guaranteed in return, clubs like Coventry with proven ability to develop players from scratch may well find that a bigger club will contribute in return for a player development relationship. 

Very common in other sports around the world. 

That sounds likely, and as the game evolves into a copy of the NRL seems very likely as that is what they do in Australia.

I can see the NRL buying into the English game, just a matter of time. Phil Gould was talking about this a year or so ago.

[Bearman]

17 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

To be fair I don't know much so we'll have to wait and see. All I know is Alan has had long term plans to take the next step for the Bears. The plus side of the funding issue is it may have speeded things up. Hopefully some positive news in the coming weeks and months 

I am hearing that the poor old fat lady has got tonsilitis and she cannot get an appointment with her GP for a face to face to get some antibiotics.

So once again the NHS comes up trumps

 

[dead man inc]

On 17/09/2021 at 19:37, OriginalMrC said:

 

Has anything come out from the bears from what this actually is/what is likely to change/come out of it?

Im a big fan of the bears progress, but just like the silence and ambiguity about next year from RFL l, i find it frustrating to not hear about the individual clubs plans themselves.

[OriginalMrC]

5 minutes ago, dead man inc said:

Has anything come out from the bears from what this actually is/what is likely to change/come out of it?

Im a big fan of the bears progress, but just like the silence and ambiguity about next year from RFL l, i find it frustrating to not hear about the individual clubs plans themselves.

Pretty sure you would hear clubs plans if they knew what was happening next year, and the year after, but they don't. This is good news for midlands rugby league but until everyone knows what's going on I expect clubs won't release plans 

[newbe]

Good to hear complimentary remarks about Coventry n the chairman during the Toulouse game from the commentators, saying expansion is good for the game.

[Angelic Cynic]

The Hunslet chairman went public last week,expecting a reduction of around 75% in central funding.

4th paragraph - https://hunsletrlfc.com/general/chairmans-end-of-season-message/

He either believes rumours,or he has been officially/unofficially informed. 

[Jeff Stein]

2 hours ago, newbe said:

Good to hear complimentary remarks about Coventry n the chairman during the Toulouse game from the commentators, saying expansion is good for the game.

And yet according to Forty20 magazine the vice President of the RFL put forward proposals at a recent meeting that Coventry, Skolars and WWR should be thrown out of the professional game (apparently they could play in the Rugby League Conference despite that League not being in existence for the best part of a decade)

[tim2]

16 minutes ago, Jeff Stein said:

And yet according to Forty20 magazine the vice President of the RFL put forward proposals at a recent meeting that Coventry, Skolars and WWR should be thrown out of the professional game (apparently they could play in the Rugby League Conference despite that League not being in existence for the best part of a decade)

I wouldn't be surprised.

When Rugby Union professionalised, they swept away all the old ways and introduced a full, transparent pyramid. After 125 years of professionalism, rugby league still has no idea how to structure itself.

[gingerjon]

38 minutes ago, Jeff Stein said:

And yet according to Forty20 magazine the vice President of the RFL put forward proposals at a recent meeting that Coventry, Skolars and WWR should be thrown out of the professional game (apparently they could play in the Rugby League Conference despite that League not being in existence for the best part of a decade)

If you're from outside the heartlands, you're expected to be grateful you're allowed to play.

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, Jeff Stein said:

And yet according to Forty20 magazine the vice President of the RFL put forward proposals at a recent meeting that Coventry, Skolars and WWR should be thrown out of the professional game (apparently they could play in the Rugby League Conference despite that League not being in existence for the best part of a decade)

Unbelievably this proposal was put forward by fellow league 1 club Keighley. I've always had a lot of time for the Cougars so very disappointing that they were eager to get rid of their fellow clubs so readily. Very short memories at Cougar Park considering they went out of business 3 years ago and are lucky to be still in league 1 at all. Thankfully not all clubs in league 1 feel the same. 

[RigbyLuger]

1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:

Unbelievably this proposal was put forward by fellow league 1 club Keighley. I've always had a lot of time for the Cougars so very disappointing that they were eager to get rid of their fellow clubs so readily. Very short memories at Cougar Park considering they went out of business 3 years ago and are lucky to be still in league 1 at all. Thankfully not all clubs in league 1 feel the same. 

They're 100s of years older than you Southerners so are more important, obviously, despite those recent financial issues we're supposed to forget. Poor form.

Pigs just want more in the trough for themselves.

[sentoffagain2]

   If Coventry fold it will be a backward step for Rugby League.I don't know why they didn't strive years ago to keep a team in  Liverpool.They were often near the bottom of the league but had a Great Britain player Ray Ashby at full back.

[OriginalMrC]

55 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   If Coventry fold it will be a backward step for Rugby League.I don't know why they didn't strive years ago to keep a team in  Liverpool.They were often near the bottom of the league but had a Great Britain player Ray Ashby at full back.

Exactly once a club is gone its gone and the pathways that come with it. Joe Batchelor got his first chance at Coventry. Jason Bass at York got his first chance at Coventry and more recently Elliot Hall at Batley who scored a cracker of a try in the playoffs was very clear that he got his chance at Coventry to progress in the game. Who knows in a few years time what other players will get an opportunity at the Bears, Skolars or WWR. These pathways need to be there. 

[Angelic Cynic]

8 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Exactly once a club is gone its gone and the pathways that come with it. Joe Batchelor got his first chance at Coventry. Jason Bass at York got his first chance at Coventry and more recently Elliot Hall at Batley who scored a cracker of a try in the playoffs was very clear that he got his chance at Coventry to progress in the game. Who knows in a few years time what other players will get an opportunity at the Bears, Skolars or WWR. These pathways need to be there. 

If it is going to be 2 x 10 and no funding for any other clubs.Plus only the 20 clubs will presumably be allowed a reserve side,and perhaps an ' elite ' academy,I struggle to see any other pathway(s) other than community clubs in the Conference.

The additional problem would be the compounding problem of no promotion/relegation.

The suicide of the sport is beyond preparatory steps stage...

[BJW]

13 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Unbelievably this proposal was put forward by fellow league 1 club Keighley. I've always had a lot of time for the Cougars so very disappointing that they were eager to get rid of their fellow clubs so readily. Very short memories at Cougar Park considering they went out of business 3 years ago and are lucky to be still in league 1 at all. Thankfully not all clubs in league 1 feel the same. 

Plus he has failed to say who these 3 clubs would be playing, if there would be promotion/relegation back to/from 'pro' game or what future prospects, if any, these clubs would have. 

Maybe an incentive for the clubs he wanted to remain in the 'pro' game would be that if they went broke, one of these clubs would replace them the next season? Now remind me of the financial record of certain clubs? 

[Jeff Stein]

19 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Unbelievably this proposal was put forward by fellow league 1 club Keighley. I've always had a lot of time for the Cougars so very disappointing that they were eager to get rid of their fellow clubs so readily. Very short memories at Cougar Park considering they went out of business 3 years ago and are lucky to be still in league 1 at all. Thankfully not all clubs in league 1 feel the same. 

Glad they lost today. Another year of having to play clubs clearly beneath them ahoy

[tim2]

19 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Unbelievably this proposal was put forward by fellow league 1 club Keighley.

Karma works very quickly on occassion...

[tim2]

19 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Unbelievably this proposal was put forward by fellow league 1 club Keighley.

Karma works very quickly on occassion...

[dead man inc]

21 hours ago, Jeff Stein said:

And yet according to Forty20 magazine the vice President of the RFL put forward proposals at a recent meeting that Coventry, Skolars and WWR should be thrown out of the professional game (apparently they could play in the Rugby League Conference despite that League not being in existence for the best part of a decade)

If this is true, 99% of me is disgusted & appalled - the sport is desperate to grow & get new fans, but kills off areas that could with the right investment add significant new numbers.

1% of me just thinks if it is true, then f@@k it! - have the balls to tell Coventry/Skolars/WWR so their directors/sponsors can stop throwing away cash, volunteers can stop waisting their time & players will have to play union (a far inferior game - yesterday watched probably the worst game of RU in my life) where they will earn more money at nat 1 level anyway.

[OriginalMrC]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Stein said:

Glad they lost today. Another year of having to play clubs clearly beneath them ahoy

They'll have to get the cheque book out again after another season of under achievement 

[OriginalMrC]

6 minutes ago, tim2 said:

Karma works very quickly on occassion...

Quite, though regardless I'd have wanted Doncaster to win mainly because Carl Hall is such a great guy with his heart in the right place. 

[OriginalMrC]

6 minutes ago, dead man inc said:

If this is true, 99% of me is disgusted & appalled - the sport is desperate to grow & get new fans, but kills off areas that could with the right investment add significant new numbers.

1% of me just thinks if it is true, then f@@k it! - have the balls to tell Coventry/Skolars/WWR so their directors/sponsors can stop throwing away cash, volunteers can stop waisting their time & players will have to play union (a far inferior game - yesterday watched probably the worst game of RU in my life) where they will earn more money at nat 1 level anyway.

Agree 100%. However, the proposal was put forward by Keighley and shared with all clubs pretty sure the owners/directors of Coventry/WWR/Skolars were delighted when they saw it! 

[dead man inc]

23 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Unbelievably this proposal was put forward by fellow league 1 club Keighley. I've always had a lot of time for the Cougars so very disappointing that they were eager to get rid of their fellow clubs so readily. Very short memories at Cougar Park considering they went out of business 3 years ago and are lucky to be still in league 1 at all. Thankfully not all clubs in league 1 feel the same. 

if this is true? Keighley give Cannibal’s a good name!

Shocking!

and a new low in a sport that seems to self inflict at every opportunity.

So disappointed ... again