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Salford to move to Moor Lane?


The Daddy
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14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The whole process was weird and the scoring was strange - and then they had to cover for the fact that had they enforced the rules properly they'd have had about five teams (and all of those placed in the league below did not meet the criteria either) - but it never was a simple as, "How good is your stadium?"

With regards to Salford, I do find it a bit weird that Salford City, with the lowest home average in the entire Football League, seem to believe that they are a big enough draw to overcome the disadvantages of the A J Bell that have seen it become a millstone for Salford and a constant hurdle for Sale.

The difference between Salford City and the others is that they can draw Man City, Liverpool or United etc. at home in the cup and fill the place. I suppose they can also have pre-season games against those clubs. There are also some huge clubs floating around League 1 (and the Championship) should they get that far. Clubs like Crewe, Burton Albion and Peterborough have shown that is possible in the past.

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3 hours ago, Phil W said:

Out of interest can Moor Lane be improved that much capacity wise? If it could would Salford City not have stayed?

They are jigsaw kit stands some of them so I suppose they can be dismantled and replaced with a bigger version. The location is also not the best area of the city.

The difference is one club is looking up and showing ambition the other is treading water and trying to avoid going under. That doesn't mean, however, that SL can just give them a free pass to play at a toy town stadium. The league has to show ambition too.

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12 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They are jigsaw kit stands some of them so I suppose they can be dismantled and replaced with a bigger version. The location is also not the best area of the city.

The difference is one club is looking up and showing ambition the other is treading water and trying to avoid going under. That doesn't mean, however, that SL can just give them a free pass to play at a toy town stadium. The league has to show ambition too.

Conversely, one club is financial doped up to the eyeballs trebling Scottish Premier League strikers’ wages (who was also playing competitive European football) on some of the smallest professional crowds in the four leagues and the other is a club cutting their cloth accordingly and trying to live within their means. The latter isn’t glamorous and it’s not exactly going to fill columns in the media but I know who who I’d feel safer with in out of the two. 

Edited by Jughead
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37 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The whole process was weird and the scoring was strange - and then they had to cover for the fact that had they enforced the rules properly they'd have had about five teams (and all of those placed in the league below did not meet the criteria either) - but it never was a simple as, "How good is your stadium?"

With regards to Salford, I do find it a bit weird that Salford City, with the lowest home average in the entire Football League, seem to believe that they are a big enough draw to overcome the disadvantages of the A J Bell that have seen it become a millstone for Salford and a constant hurdle for Sale.

I do believe if they enforced the criteria at the start we could have had a stronger comp now with more compliant clubs, the expansion to 14 was the killer for me, it should only have go to that number when all clubs met all criteria..  

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17 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They are jigsaw kit stands some of them so I suppose they can be dismantled and replaced with a bigger version. The location is also not the best area of the city.

The difference is one club is looking up and showing ambition the other is treading water and trying to avoid going under. That doesn't mean, however, that SL can just give them a free pass to play at a toy town stadium. The league has to show ambition too.

That would be my concern they move to Moor Lane with a reduced capacity but they hit a ceiling given limitations.

If there was a plan to show how they can grow including the stadium then it might be different. I get the club needs to be viable to start with but as has been said they are a Super League club and in five years time when they want to improve infrastructure again do they go looking for another stadium?

 

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18 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Has anyone changed their mind one bit after reading the 27 pages of this thread? 

That's never been the point of the RL forum. It's purpose it to let off steam about your own bias, preferences and prejudice.

It's a chance for everyone to not "be their age!"

It's nice that all the tosh and nonsense comes out into the daylight now and again, though the pity is it doesn't go up in flames in the sunshine.

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2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

#CorbynwasrightandFordesaidso!  Trusscouldn'tcareless v Keith AWOL Tory vast majority in the making.

 

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25 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I do believe if they enforced the criteria at the start we could have had a stronger comp now with more compliant clubs, the expansion to 14 was the killer for me, it should only have go to that number when all clubs met all criteria..  

Yes and you could do the same now. You don't need too many criteria. You could give 6-7 top SL clubs 6-8 licences, 3-4 others 3-4 licences and invite others on 2 year rolling licences to get to your number e.g. 12 or 14. In effect it then becomes like a P&R with a pathway for aspiration clubs.

One of the main criteria, however, should be the ability to attract 8-10k crowds (or what is the point of elite RL?)

If you can have 14 then that's great, then go to 16 and eventually more if you want. When it starts getting more than 16 you can think about your conference idea etc. That means you are expanding from strength

Doing it now by just randomly picking half a dozen semi-viable part time clubs is nuts and a recipe for disaster. It means clubs like Wakefield and Salford can just take the ###### and splurge money on players to avoid the drop because that is all that matters atm.

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16 hours ago, dboy said:

Even if you had a low cap spend (which you don't), it would not justify spending your rent money on players.

You were insolvent when Marwen took over - or would have been if he hadn't bailed you out.

The CVA you were supposed to pay has lapsed and the debt written off...because you didn't pay it.

Crappy way to run a business.

 

Jealousy is such a good look.

And you wear it so well.

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Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society

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The real problem at Salford Red Devils is that they cannot pay their way. They receive their TV money and pretty much spend all of it on first team wages. This keeps them in Super League thus ensuring they get the TV money again the following year.

That's the S.R.D. business plan.

They have barely been able to afford their rent even at peppercorn rates. Next year they have been advised that the full going rate will be required and that is why it is no longer viable to remain at the AJ Bell. They just don't have the money to pay the rent and they are no longer going to be allowed to get away without paying it.

There's a lovely club shop at the AJ Bell but it is for the exclusive use of Sale Sharks. On S.R.D. matchdays there is a table outside with a couple of ladies selling 2 or 3 items. The bars etc are not open there's just a burger van outside. Usually the entire touchline seated stand is unopened and empty.

It really feels like Salford Red Devils are unwanted occupants at the AJ Bell without the means to be accepted as equal partners. It almost feels like they are squatters.

Salford Red Devils should be cutting back their spend on players but this would mean dropping down a division and without the TV money they would never be able to get back. They wouldn't be alone and the lower leagues are surely the natural level of the club.

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

The real problem at Salford Red Devils is that they cannot pay their way. They receive their TV money and pretty much spend all of it on first team wages. This keeps them in Super League thus ensuring they get the TV money again the following year.

That's the S.R.D. business plan.

They have barely been able to afford their rent even at peppercorn rates. Next year they have been advised that the full going rate will be required and that is why it is no longer viable to remain at the AJ Bell. They just don't have the money to pay the rent and they are no longer going to be allowed to get away without paying it.

There's a lovely club shop at the AJ Bell but it is for the exclusive use of Sale Sharks. On S.R.D. matchdays there is a table outside with a couple of ladies selling 2 or 3 items. The bars etc are not open there's just a burger van outside. Usually the entire touchline seated stand is unopened and empty.

It really feels like Salford Red Devils are unwanted occupants at the AJ Bell without the means to be accepted as equal partners. It almost feels like they are squatters.

Salford Red Devils should be cutting back their spend on players but this would mean dropping down a division and without the TV money they would never be able to get back. They wouldn't be alone and the lower leagues are surely the natural level of the club.

 

 

 

At their current ground you are right but if they can average around 2.5 -3k in the new ground if they did get relegated and they get to keep the revenue from that then they are just as viable as Leigh, Fev to come up. 

But yes, they are in reality no bigger than many in the champ and have been propped up by TV money for little return (no academy for example despite Manchester crying out for one.)

Edited by ShropshireBull
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If Salford or any other club are, whether they are aware of it or not, playing “Moneyball” and spending below the cap with the aim of being more sustainable as a club but also to continue as a Super League club, I don’t really see a problem with it. If anything, it’s actually pretty admirable that they continue to do this every couple of years whilst losing key players along the way. 

Academies for clubs like Salford are probably not worth the effort when players are picked off by other, bigger clubs. Their model of picking up players from the likes of lower league clubs in Widnes, London, Leigh, Featherstone and Newcastle as they have in recent years, making some clever signings from Australia (Hastings, Lussick, Taylor, Croft, Sio etc) and signing squad players from other clubs (Vuniyawa, Akauola, Escare, Costello, Wells, Greenwood, Livett etc) has been inspired. Whoever has been behind their recruitment and retention has been superb the last few years. 

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20 hours ago, dboy said:

I get the sentiment of each club needing to strive for ever better standards for themselves and the wider game, and that supporters would endorse that...but you've lost me with the notion that it somehow absolves Salford from running their business in an ethical and fair manner.

We should ignore Salford spending their rent money on players "for the good of the game"??

Tell Fev fans that!

*NOTE - Sisyphus was punished for wrongdoing - what is Salford's punishment for wronging their debts?

What does this even mean?

Our 'rent money' is whatever money is mutually agreed between the parties. 

The original rent agreement was agreed between previous parties and based on incompetent (I'd say negligent) projections. Rent agreements, like any other contract, can be re-negotiated. This applies to SRD as much as any other company in this country. 

 

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5 hours ago, tonyXIII said:

Jealousy is such a good look.

And you wear it so well.

🤣😍

Personally Tony, I love old chestnuts like if we'd had proper licences it would be a paradise on earth now. It's sort of like Max miller reruns on Youtube.

"Now, here's a funny thing ....."

 

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2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

#CorbynwasrightandFordesaidso!  Trusscouldn'tcareless v Keith AWOL Tory vast majority in the making.

 

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It's frustrating when people cannot separate the Koukash era (and its legacy) from the post-Koukash era. I appreciate it might not be obvious from the outside, but this caricature of Salford being content to take the TV money and focusing on self-preservation does not align with reality.

The club is working incredibly hard to regain the academy status that Koukash torpedoed and is thinking innovatively by investing much of its resources in Welsh rugby league through the partnership with WRL, Coleg y Cymoedd & UCLAN. This is already paying dividends with- just last Friday- 4 young welshmen being signed to the reserves. The club has the first Super League partnership in Africa with Ghana RL and has already had coaches over from Ghana in order to aid their development and improve the RL infrastructure in the country. There is a long-term aim to give a pathway for young Ghanaians into professional rugby league. I'd argue few Super League clubs are more engaged in the expansion of the game than SRD right now.

The club's womens' team was only established this year yet has already beaten Super League opposition; PDRL sessions have also been launched. The Building The Future game against Leeds last Friday saw schoolkids and grassroots from Stockport to Bolton in attendance. The club has completely rebranded since the Koukash era.  This isn't a club just relying on old men from Weaste and Eccles.

51 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Whoever has been behind their recruitment and retention has been superb the last few years. 

Ian Blease-  just one of a number of shrewd operators at the club who have enabled SRD to punch above its weight and begin to build long-term again after Koukash decimated the club's infrastructure for short-term gain. The value of SRD's sponsorship deal with Selco BW means that, even if SRD were relegated and penalty clauses applied, the club would earn more in the Championship than several SL clubs earn from their main shirt sponsor. The commercial department is growing in size, not standing still or shrinking. 

This is why the fanbase are largely positive about Moor Lane. The opportunity to control our own destiny and retain sponsorship, f&b and other matchday-associated revenues is a huge positive and what all Super League clubs should be aspiring to.

SRD have inherent disadvantages due to poor attendances and the damage Koukash inflicted on the club. The fact that we've been so competitive over the last 5 years highlights the incompetence & complacency of bigger, better resourced and more illustrious competitors.  It is not something SRD should apologise for.  

Edited by Ray Cashmere
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19 minutes ago, Ray Cashmere said:

It's frustrating when people cannot separate the Koukash era (and its legacy) from the post-Koukash era.

The one who some think is a saviour for Rugby League, despite the evidence at Salford to the contrary? 🙂

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39 minutes ago, Ray Cashmere said:

It's frustrating when people cannot separate the Koukash era (and its legacy) from the post-Koukash era. I appreciate it might not be obvious from the outside, but this caricature of Salford being content to take the TV money and focusing on self-preservation does not align with reality.

The club is working incredibly hard to regain the academy status that Koukash torpedoed and is thinking innovatively by investing much of its resources in Welsh rugby league through the partnership with WRL, Coleg y Cymoedd & UCLAN. This is already paying dividends with- just last Friday- 4 young welshmen being signed to the reserves. The club has the first Super League partnership in Africa with Ghana RL and has already had coaches over from Ghana in order to aid their development and improve the RL infrastructure in the country. There is a long-term aim to give a pathway for young Ghanaians into professional rugby league. I'd argue few Super League clubs are more engaged in the expansion of the game than SRD right now.

The club's womens' team was only established this year yet has already beaten Super League opposition; PDRL sessions have also been launched. The Building The Future game against Leeds last Friday saw schoolkids and grassroots from Stockport to Bolton in attendance. The club has completely rebranded since the Koukash era.  This isn't a club just relying on old men from Weaste and Eccles.

Ian Blease-  just one of a number of shrewd operators at the club who have enabled SRD to punch above its weight and begin to build long-term again after Koukash decimated the club's infrastructure for short-term gain. The value of SRD's sponsorship deal with Selco BW means that, even if SRD were relegated and penalty clauses applied, the club would earn more in the Championship than several SL clubs earn from their main shirt sponsor. The commercial department is growing in size, not standing still or shrinking. 

This is why the fanbase are largely positive about Moor Lane. The opportunity to control our own destiny and retain sponsorship, f&b and other matchday-associated revenues is a huge positive and what all Super League clubs should be aspiring to.

SRD have inherent disadvantages due to poor attendances and the damage Koukash inflicted on the club. The fact that we've been so competitive over the last 5 years highlights the incompetence & complacency of bigger, better resourced and more illustrious competitors.  It is not something SRD should apologise for.  

Very well said, Ray. Inspired that!

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1 minute ago, johnh1 said:

Very well said, Ray. Inspired that!

And I will add that we reached two major finals and were unable to reap the financial rewards which would normally come off the back of those due to covid.

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Do Salford fans on here think a move to Moor Lane will encourage people from Salford to go to games. We hear all the time that the AJ Bell is hard to get to but for the Salford public will ML mean more local suppor

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25 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Do Salford fans on here think a move to Moor Lane will encourage people from Salford to go to games. We hear all the time that the AJ Bell is hard to get to but for the Salford public will ML mean more local suppor

Personally I think it is a harder place to get to, with less there. The reality is that Sale will price us out of the AJ Bell. Moor Lane means we get to retain all the money from the match days sales.

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22 minutes ago, Red Willow said:

Personally I think it is a harder place to get to, with less there. The reality is that Sale will price us out of the AJ Bell. Moor Lane means we get to retain all the money from the match days sales.

I agree. I have grown to like the AJBell, but realistically, the only way to get there is by car. At The Willows, there was a large walk up, particularly in the glory days of the 70s. Moor Lane doesn’t have good transport links, and there is nowhere to park!

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