Jump to content

Salford to move to Moor Lane?


The Daddy
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 22/03/2022 at 16:38, Scubby said:

Yet they have their most expensive squad in years on the playing field? People had a go at Toulouse for cutting their cloth.

Super League should not be allowing a top flight club to play in a Subbuteo 5k stadium. If Salford cannot meet the requirements of a top flight club they should default into the Championship. Who is holding the elite competition to standards here?

I am not a Salford fan myself but if I was then yes in all honesty I would have to agree with your last paragraph.

Moor Lane is NOT a Super League stadium,certainly not as it is right now. And yes I absolutely agree that stadium wise at the very least there should be minimum standards for the relevant divisions,and if Salford can’t afford to play at a Super League quality stadium be it their own or rented then yes they should relinquish their place in Super League and default to the Championship. And they should allow either Fev,Leigh or Widnes(I say those as they have SL quality stadiums)to take their place assuming of course they earn the right to do so on the field.

 And frankly if I was a Salford fan I would be feeling disappointed at moving to Moor Lane.Moving to Moor Lane frankly is failure.It is a failure of senior management over a period of many years. And in my opinion as a non Salford fan the previous senior management team of the likes of John Wilkinson the so called”Mr Salford”and others should be hanging their heads in shame.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Seems a shame that a grand finalist team a few years back have to drop to a 5000 ish capacity stadium and we’re not able to kick on due to covid

Moor Lane seems like a backward step but no point going bust renting seats you don’t need  A more compact ground with a bit of atmosphere will be better for fans and tv audiences than rattling around in an empty stadium

5000 capacity probably enough for a lot of games ie Catalans, Toulouse, most Yorkshire clubs.  They will miss the bigger travelling support of Saints Wigan and Wire though

just wondering if Moor Lane has a cabaret room like the willows did    Back in the day always seemed to be showoddywoddy or the drifters keeping the punters happy 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

I think Salford needs a NRL experienced CEO to run the club.

Great idea - pack the club house with gambling machines and hope their fan base get addicted?

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

SRD have inherent disadvantages due to poor attendances and the damage Koukash inflicted on the club.

An overlooked disadvantage is the lack of a proper enemy /rival. 

Saints have Wigan,  Hull derby,  wakey and cas, etc. Even Warrington have the current year as a rival. 

Just think if we could have got a club in city of Manchester that is something that could grow long term. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

I think Salford needs a NRL experienced CEO to run the club.

No they don't. An NRL CEO wouldn't understand the culture or the issues affecting the club. Arrogance of this statement !

They need what the other clubs have had such as Warrington, a stable rich owner willing to throw money until the club is on an even ground (not like Koukash) 

They need a source of income such as the sales from match day and income from other sources than RL. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, dboy said:

If you act like a cry baby, you'll get called a cry baby.

Wakefield Trinity's problems in improving their ground are very well documented - virtually 100% have been out of the club's hands.

Now that a certain council leader has gone, and the new regime have been more willing to hold the developer to account, there is finally tangible progress (we wait with baited breath!).

And you did moan about Wakey's attendances with your silly "it will be empty for most games" comment.

Grow up.

Salford will be fine if they can move to Moore Lane. End of. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Though it will never happen because of money and local residents,the ideal place to put a stadium of Super League quality with a capacity of say 9000-10000 that BOTH Salford and Swinton could use would be where Swinton Park Golf Club is. And that is bang on the border of both Salford and Swinton.It would be accessible.

But the chances of that happening are a big fat zero.No money to build it and the residents of Runnymede and streets that surround it along with Barton Road and roads off it would no doubt oppose it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rivalry in the 50s and 60s used to be between Swinton and Salford. How we kids used to celebrate Swinton's huge victories over Salford. 

The ideal place for Swinton would be where it more or less always was: Station Road. The dire straights the club was in as it struggled for survival led to the sale of the ground for housing. There was plenty of parking in the area, and lots of walk up.

The ideal place for Salford was indeed the Willows, too. 

However,  that was then. This is now.  We are 50 or more years on from that. The world has moved on. There are new situations, new challenges, new oportunities. Housing patterns have changed: Little Hulton was only just getting going then and as it grew, it absorbed many from both Swinton and Salford as the terraced streets of 19th century Manchester conurbation  were finally replaced by new housing miles from the Willows and Station Road.

Top class rugby league from here and in Australia is available at the touch of a button so no need for fans to subject themselves to the vicissitudes of weekend travel to get to games. X box and Strictly reign  supreme as competing armchair  attractions and Friday night games are not the "social" occasion that Sunday afternoon games were.

Far from all the flak these clubs are getting, we should be supporting both clubs for keeping the game alive in what have always been the outer reaches of rugby league territory, rather than scoffing at them for trying and surviving  in such difficult circumstances. 

Edited by JohnM
  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

I'm interested in that drive, that rush to judgment, that is so prevalent in our society. We all know that pleasurable rush that comes from condemning, and in the short term it's quite a satisfying thing to do, isn't it?

J. K. Rowling

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The site of Ambrose Barlow School would be a great place. It's central Swinton, not far from Station Road, East Lancs with great transport links.

That's dream land of course.

At best Salford may get 5,000 fans, they will never be a 10,000 fans side. Too much else in the city.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Red Willow said:

The site of Ambrose Barlow School would be a great place. It's central Swinton, not far from Station Road, East Lancs with great transport links.

That's dream land of course.

At best Salford may get 5,000 fans, they will never be a 10,000 fans side. Too much else in the city.

 

I agree it would be an ideal venue to build a stadium.

But two big issues.

1 It was formerly an education venue and it is very hard to gain permission to change either the venue or land for alternative use.

2 Residential area.Residents would oppose it very strongly and the opposition would be too great,and as such they would win the day and any plans would end up being quashed.

Realistically Moor Lane is the only place Salford can play at.But as a non Salford fan myself I don’t think it is really the best place for them because of the size of the stadium and it is not Super League standard certainly capacity wise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

The rivalry in the 50s and 60s used to be between Swinton and Salford. How we kids used to celebrate Swinton's huge victories over Salford. 

The ideal place for Swinton would be where it more or less always was: Station Road. The dire straights the club was in as it struggled for survival led to the sale of the ground for housing. There was plenty of parking in the area, and lots of walk up.

The ideal place for Salford was indeed the Willows, too. 

However,  that was then. This is now.  We are 50 or more years on from that. The world has moved on. There are new situations, new challenges, new oportunities. Housing patterns have changed: Little Hulton was only just getting going then and as it grew, it absorbed many from both Swinton and Salford as the terraced streets of 19th century Manchester conurbation  were finally replaced by new housing miles from the Willows and Station Road.

Top class rugby league from here and in Australia is available at the touch of a button so no need for fans to subject themselves to the vicissitudes of weekend travel to get to games. X box and Strictly reign  supreme as competing armchair  attractions and Friday night games are not the "social" occasion that Sunday afternoon games were.

Far from all the flak these clubs are getting, we should be supporting both clubs for keeping the game alive in what have always been the outer reaches of rugby league territory, rather than scoffing at them for trying and surviving  in such difficult circumstances. 

I buy some of this but its all the more reason to give the RFL flak and banning Manchester Rangers to protect teams who are either nomads  (Oldham) dont play in their community  (Swinton) or have never actually been Manchester (Salford)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is a Super League standard stadium in any sense? We’ve had London Broncos playing at a venue that wouldn’t look out of place at League One level, Wakefield and Cas have decrypted stadia with relatively poor facilities and most playing out of rented stadia anyway. 

A 5,000 (approx) capacity for Salford isn’t a terrible move. Moor Lane isn’t the most aesthetically pleasing but it’s close to the pitch and being quite full, should generate a decent atmosphere. The issue I have is if Salford wanted to expand, they’re really stuck. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Jughead said:

What is a Super League standard stadium in any sense?

https://www.rugby-league.com/flipbooks/2022-operational-rules-tiers-1-3/index.html#p=17

and

https://secure.rugby-league.com/ign_docs/FACILITYSTANDARDS2016 final PDF.pdf

Edited by gingerjon

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Jughead said:

What is a Super League standard stadium in any sense? We’ve had London Broncos playing at a venue that wouldn’t look out of place at League One level, Wakefield and Cas have decrypted stadia with relatively poor facilities and most playing out of rented stadia anyway. 

A 5,000 (approx) capacity for Salford isn’t a terrible move. Moor Lane isn’t the most aesthetically pleasing but it’s close to the pitch and being quite full, should generate a decent atmosphere. The issue I have is if Salford wanted to expand, they’re really stuck. 

They should be told no outright if they want to be a SL club. London should have been told no - that was an embarrassment and meant we had 1k crowds in SL for some games.

If the game has any ambition to regularly average 10k crowds across its competition - every could has to be able to play its part. Salford can't bank the SL money for being an elite club and play at a tiny Subbuteo stadium to save cash. They are either an elite club or a Championship club. The leaders of our game need to grow some and drive the sport forwards. 

Edited by Scubby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They should be told no outright if they want to be a SL club. London should have been told no - that was an embarrassment and meant we had 1k crowds in SL for some games.

If the game has any ambition to regularly average 10k crowds across its competition - every could has to be able to play its part. Salford can't bank the SL money for being an elite club and play at a tiny Subbuteo stadium to save cash. They are either an elite club or a Championship club. The leaders of our game need to grow some and drive the sport forwards. 

That four team competition based purely on crowds alone would be horrible. Thankfully, we don’t base clubs off crowd figures alone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They should be told no outright if they want to be a SL club.

Have a look at the minimum requirements and tell me which ones that Moor Lane doesn't meet.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Have a look at the minimum requirements and tell me which ones that Moor Lane doesn't meet.

This has Nigel Wood's crumby paws all over it on his big 3x8s sell. 

How can a sport go from insisting clubs have 10k stadiums and issuing official warnings 12 years ago, to letting London play at a Wedding Venue and Salford in a Play Mobile toy ground? It is all down to leadership and the tail wagging the dog. We get what we deserve. 

In 2009 we tried to enforce 12k stadiums for licensing not 10k.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/7138760.stm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/jul/21/super-league-salford-celtic-crusaders-rugby

Back when the game had some backbone. 

Wigan are having problems with Wigan Athletic at the moment. I think if they can get a 2k temporary stand behind the posts they can move in at Orrell and get 5k sell outs every week. They can also keep all the money from the pie van. It is weak and damaging.

You are as strong as your leadership.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

This has Nigel Wood's crumby paws all over it on his big 3x8s sell. 

How can a sport go from insisting clubs have 10k stadiums and issuing official warnings 12 years ago, to letting London play at a Wedding Venue and Salford in a Play Mobile toy ground? It is all down to leadership and the tail wagging the dog. We get what we deserve. 

In 2009 we tried to enforce 12k stadiums for licensing not 10k.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/7138760.stm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/jul/21/super-league-salford-celtic-crusaders-rugby

Back when the game had some backbone. 

Wigan are having problems with Wigan Athletic at the moment. I think if they can get a 2k temporary stand behind the posts they can move in at Orrell and get 5k sell outs every week. They can also keep all the money from the pie van. It is weak and damaging.

You are as strong as your leadership.

I don't really disagree with you but those are the standards and, yes, they came in when it was decided that the future of the game was based on focusing on a handful of middle level teams to the exclusion of all else.

And now we see the logical outcome of that. A weaker and weaker League 1 and an elite competition that is struggling to grow in any meaningful way.

  • Like 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I don't really disagree with you but those are the standards and, yes, they came in when it was decided that the future of the game was based on focusing on a handful of middle level teams to the exclusion of all else.

And now we see the logical outcome of that. A weaker and weaker League 1 and an elite competition that is struggling to grow in any meaningful way.

But it can change if the leadership is there. Wakefield nearly went Dewsbury a couple of years ago - do we say no or just amend the PDF to 4k with 1500 seats? How is it so difficult to set aspirational minimum standards? 

Toulouse have moved in with Stade Toulousain with the ambition to get regular five figure crowds. They should have just gone to the local municipal 5k stadium 6 miles out of the city and blown their whole budget on staying up in SL. 

Castleford's main stand actually only holds 1500 seats. It has broken the minimum standards for the last 6 years according to the document you shared. Yet Whitehaven were denied the right to promotion if they got there in 2021 on the same criteria.

 

Edited by Scubby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the worst elements of the licensing era is the complete fixation we have around facilities and perception to the tv audience. Often we overstate these points to suit our own arguments. 

In reality, clubs with good facilities should be able to offer a better proposition to customers and benefit from increased crowds and income, and therefore be able to run a stronger club. I don't have too much issue with Wakefield playing in a dump, but it should be something that is a millstone around their neck that stops them competing, and therefore they fall to their natural level.

However, there are two elements at play. Firstly, facilities is not proving to be the silver bullet in terms of crowd numbers. Cas for example have been able to deliver solid crowds, better than some teams in far better facilities. This belief that good grounds = good crowds is flawed. 

Secondly, the restrictive Salary Cap has helped to keep the clubs with lower incomes competitive, when in reality a club wit a turnover of £7-10m should be blowing teams with a turnover of £4m out of the water, but they can only spend the same amounts. We do see the richer teams have some benefits as they are generally the clubs players want to be at, but the cap does create a spread. 

The likes of Cas and Wakey have shown that they can keep competing with terrible facilities, and good luck to them, but a large part of that is the artificial suppression of spend at the top level. I think it is important that we allow clubs to be aspirational and push their spending if they have the infrastructure in place and the income being generated.

I don't think we necessarily need to go down the route of excluding teams from P&R, but we should be creating rules and an environment that makes it harder for these to compete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

One of the worst elements of the licensing era is the complete fixation we have around facilities and perception to the tv audience. Often we overstate these points to suit our own arguments. 

In reality, clubs with good facilities should be able to offer a better proposition to customers and benefit from increased crowds and income, and therefore be able to run a stronger club. I don't have too much issue with Wakefield playing in a dump, but it should be something that is a millstone around their neck that stops them competing, and therefore they fall to their natural level.

However, there are two elements at play. Firstly, facilities is not proving to be the silver bullet in terms of crowd numbers. Cas for example have been able to deliver solid crowds, better than some teams in far better facilities. This belief that good grounds = good crowds is flawed. 

Secondly, the restrictive Salary Cap has helped to keep the clubs with lower incomes competitive, when in reality a club wit a turnover of £7-10m should be blowing teams with a turnover of £4m out of the water, but they can only spend the same amounts. We do see the richer teams have some benefits as they are generally the clubs players want to be at, but the cap does create a spread. 

The likes of Cas and Wakey have shown that they can keep competing with terrible facilities, and good luck to them, but a large part of that is the artificial suppression of spend at the top level. I think it is important that we allow clubs to be aspirational and push their spending if they have the infrastructure in place and the income being generated.

I don't think we necessarily need to go down the route of excluding teams from P&R, but we should be creating rules and an environment that makes it harder for these to compete.

Moor lane isn’t a bad little ground and from the people I’ve spoke to they reckon you could get to 8-9k. With more corporate felicities. As a Salford fan I’d be happy if we could get something like that. It alll comes down to money though so we will have to see.

4ADB2985-0F93-4F80-B7E1-01373375A5B9.jpeg

CC8EB46C-F062-4D7F-9A78-31E41BD55D9E.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Moor lane isn’t a bad little ground and from the people I’ve spoke to they reckon you could get to 8-9k. With more corporate felicities. As a Salford fan I’d be happy if we could get something like that. It alll comes down to money though so we will have to see.

4ADB2985-0F93-4F80-B7E1-01373375A5B9.jpeg

CC8EB46C-F062-4D7F-9A78-31E41BD55D9E.jpeg

It dies look very neat 👌 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...