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‘A £100m offer could be made next month’


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6 minutes ago, LittleboroRoughyed said:

I think the idea is a good one - again subject to the detail. No money should go to offsetting SL club owner loans or infrastructure loans for Cas & Wakefield to build new grounds it should be about strategic direction, growing participation, promoting the game, generating additional revenue 

So where exactly ?

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2 hours ago, M j M said:

It wouldn't surprise me though. Some of these owners have got very big loans to their clubs to cover years of financial losses (eg Ken Davy £17m, Ian Lenagan £6m etc). Most owners do it for the love of their clubs but the opportunity to get some of their cash back must still be tempting.

It might be tempting, but it would work against generating the revenue needed to pay the investors a return on their money so it would be a bad move.

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1 hour ago, LittleboroRoughyed said:

what about those clubs who have made the investments themselves - Leeds, Saints etc.

We've been over all this but apart from those two cited very few clubs have made the investments all on their own.

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1 hour ago, LittleboroRoughyed said:

Last 3 lines of my post. What’s the point in writing off Directors loans how does that grow the sport & make it more attractive? Building new stadiums is expensive Cas & Wakefield, Bradford what about those clubs who have made the investments themselves - Leeds, Saints etc.

What about them ? , What do you want to do ? , Give them a loan to do something ? , What ? 

Ive asked the question a couple of times , and actual infrastructure projects is just about the only thing I can see that would bring in a return overall for the sport 

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As always the devil is in the detail and there isn't really much to go on.

Based on what has been said I'm not sure if this means private equity in SL, like the previous offers, or not. People seem to be leaping to that conclusion but it is not mentioned in the opening post or the linked article. It doesn't on the face of it seem like that to me and seems like investment for a stake and the running of a new commercial arm with the company then getting a return on that from all commercial activities and events. 

Anyone that has read my posts on private equity knows I am against it and was much against the previous offer. However a strategic partner or venture capital partner in a commercial arm under the RFL could be a very different proposition and could well be worth exploring. As I said the devil is in the detail. 

Edited by Damien
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5 minutes ago, Damien said:

As always the devil is in the detail and there isn't really much to go on.

Based on what had been said I'm not sure of this means private equity in SL, like the previous offers, or not. People seem to be leaping to that conclusion but it is not mentioned in the opening post or the linked article. It doesn't on the face of it seem like that to me and seems like investment for a stake and the running of a new commercial arm with the company then getting a return on that from all commercial activities and events. 

Anyone that has read my posts on private equity knows I am against it and was much against the previous offer. However a strategic partner or venture capital partner in a commercial arm under the RFL could be a very different proposition and could well be worth exploring. As I said the devil is in the detail. 

What's somewhat reassuring is that we correctly rejected the last proposal. Suggests we might be acting rationally and not just grabbing what we can get.

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I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

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What's clear from these conversations is that some people have their understanding of corporate finance from the plot of Pretty Woman.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Have to admit I really haven't a clue how it might work 

None of us have.

There are so many variables at play here, all we are doing is speculating.  But I guess that's fine as that's what these boards are for.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

What's clear from these conversations is that some people have their understanding of corporate finance from the plot of Pretty Woman.

Corporate financier here, I can attest Pretty Woman is a highly accurate portrail of the world of finance and suchwhat. So shockingly accurate in fact that my monocle dropped into my champagne flute while watching.

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I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

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44 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

None of us have.

There are so many variables at play here, all we are doing is speculating.  But I guess that's fine as that's what these boards are for.

Im an investment banker

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25 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Corporate financier here, I can attest Pretty Woman is a highly accurate portrail of the world of finance and suchwhat. So shockingly accurate in fact that my monocle dropped into my champagne flute while watching.

So what did you get for your 2 Opera tickets ?😀

Gary H talks of a ' serious investor ......for the whole of the game'.  

Along with 95% of the game I'll sit on my hands for the moment.........

That 95% ?

Everybody at Tier 4 and below , without whose input ( as most 'serious ' investors should appreciate- no idea what the RFL have promised ) this game would collapse.

Start spending there before anywhere else - first call for me would be 36 or so development officers  (  attach them to pro clubs and expansion areas initially  ) with specific KPI targets including to increase immediately  playing numbers  at teenager level........

Will our Great and Good take a holistic approach ?

Jury out is the most hopeful message I can expect at this stage.

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21 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

What's somewhat reassuring is that we correctly rejected the last proposal. Suggests we might be acting rationally and not just grabbing what we can get.

Worth remembering a majority of SL clubs were desperate enough to vote for that deal.

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26 minutes ago, The storm said:

Im an investment banker

In that case, I am even more interested in the reason for your negative view of Venture Capital which seeds so much of the start up businesses in the UK?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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4 hours ago, LittleboroRoughyed said:

I think the idea is a good one - again subject to the detail. No money should go to offsetting SL club owner loans or infrastructure loans for Cas & Wakefield to build new grounds it should be about strategic direction, growing participation, promoting the game, generating additional revenue 

Gubrats, I meant my first post. Strategic Direction: Long-term plan from Community Clubs to SL - League structure, P+R, Franchising, academy, reserves, targeted expansion, representative + internationals etc. Growing Participation: Junior, community, womens, wheelchair, Development officers etc. Promoting the Game: Marketing, game day experience, improving the product on the pitch (players / rules), targeted on the road games, OurLeague, media coverage etc. Generating additional revenue: attendances, spend per head / game, sponsorship, advertising, merchandising, internationals etc.

Paying off Director loans and building 2 or 3 stadiums for the benefit of the few against benefitting the whole of the game is pointless.

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6 minutes ago, LittleboroRoughyed said:

Gubrats, I meant my first post. Strategic Direction: Long-term plan from Community Clubs to SL - League structure, P+R, Franchising, academy, reserves, targeted expansion, representative + internationals etc. Growing Participation: Junior, community, womens, wheelchair, Development officers etc. Promoting the Game: Marketing, game day experience, improving the product on the pitch (players / rules), targeted on the road games, OurLeague, media coverage etc. Generating additional revenue: attendances, spend per head / game, sponsorship, advertising, merchandising, internationals etc.

Paying off Director loans and building 2 or 3 stadiums for the benefit of the few against benefitting the whole of the game is pointless.

Para 1 - absolutely agree. RFL Community Board trying to progress most of these points over the years but always financially constrained - introduction of membership fees being the latest and needed sticking plaster.

Para 2  - also agree but;

Where do you think the priorities  at present are going to lie ?

That said if anyone believes they can  just sweep up the 95% of our game  ( the Community )  onto  the offer sheet at the say so of SL/ RFL   and into this deal  they  perhaps need to adjust their thinking.

Governance is a gift from below and those giving it need to be looked after......

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35 minutes ago, LittleboroRoughyed said:

Gubrats, I meant my first post. Strategic Direction: Long-term plan from Community Clubs to SL - League structure, P+R, Franchising, academy, reserves, targeted expansion, representative + internationals etc. Growing Participation: Junior, community, womens, wheelchair, Development officers etc. Promoting the Game: Marketing, game day experience, improving the product on the pitch (players / rules), targeted on the road games, OurLeague, media coverage etc. Generating additional revenue: attendances, spend per head / game, sponsorship, advertising, merchandising, internationals etc.

Paying off Director loans and building 2 or 3 stadiums for the benefit of the few against benefitting the whole of the game is pointless.

Don't disagree on more work on participation at all levels ( have suggested non academy pro clubs should have targets set for them locally ) , but regarding some of the other stuff , that will as always depend on what structure is adopted , what criteria is adopted , what overall direction ' somebody ' wants to take ?

' Generating additional revenue ' sounds simple , exactly how do you suggest they ( whoever gets tasked with it ) go about doing that ?

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I think generating additional revenue is interlinked with all the other aspects but is not a short term fix. Making the rugby league match day more of an experience (a la Bull mania), improving the quality of product as sport is supposed to be entertainment (many SL games are fairly mundane events recently), raising the profile of the game etc at all levels will put more bums on seats / increase spend per head / be more attractive to advertisers/ sponsors etc.

 I support Oldham, we generally don’t play in the town, have very few kids attend, fans turn up to watch the game only & you wouldn’t know Oldham had a RL team as no marketing. Yes these are club issues which the club is now trying to resolve but is replicated at many clubs.

 I don’t have answers but just a few ideas / observations having watched the game for 35 years. Hopefully specialists in these areas will help shape the future of the game in a positive way with more fan involvement.

All ideas should be invited by & welcomed by the RFL

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It seems to me the men's game has potential to grow as it’s so far off where it could be but men’s sport generally is so set in its ways now, winning over new fans is a big ask.

Surely any investor would see the potential in women’s RL & perhaps wheelchair too but not so much. Women’s team sport has so much to grow and it hasn’t been around long enough for entrenched fan bases. I know I've been won over by it as the standard has improved.

Edited by RayCee

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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6 minutes ago, RayCee said:

It seems to me the men's game has potential to grow as it’s so far off where it could be but men’s sport generally is so set in its ways now, winning over new fans is a big ask.

Surely any investor would see the potential in women’s RL & perhaps wheelchair too but not so much. Women’s sport has so much to grow and it hasn’t been around long enough for entrenched fan bases. 

Anybody is free and welcome to play whatever sport they want , that doesn't necessarily mean that they can grow to the point where they can become professional or popular enough to be financially generating , personally I don't believe women's RL will ever provide a return on any realistic investment in it 

All IMO

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