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120 points against London teams


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11 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

But I don't agree with the conclusion that this means development money would be wasted. Increasing the presence of RL in schools would provide the biggest boost as that is where our league only lads have arrived from. Turning union first lads into leaguies is more of a very slow burn - but achievable if there's a thriving club, a good comp and a talent pathway. 

I'm coming from it from a point of view as to where would limited and precious development money be "best spent"?

Any London lad who takes to league doesn't really have anywhere to go, any young lad in Wigan, Leeds and Hull has a clear pathway to the top.

Money is in very short supply and so it has to go where the best returns are.

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4 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I'm coming from it from a point of view as to where would limited and precious development money be "best spent"?

Any London lad who takes to league doesn't really have anywhere to go, any young lad in Wigan, Leeds and Hull has a clear pathway to the top.

Money is in very short supply and so it has to go where the best returns are.

By all means, but don't get uppity when money isn't being spent in Bradford, East Greater Manchester or Calderdale because that is not where the best returns are vs Leeds, Wigan and Hull.

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21 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I'm coming from it from a point of view as to where would limited and precious development money be "best spent"?

Any London lad who takes to league doesn't really have anywhere to go, any young lad in Wigan, Leeds and Hull has a clear pathway to the top.

Money is in very short supply and so it has to go where the best returns are.

Apart from youngsters like Kai Pearce Paul who get scouted and sign for big clubs.

Or the likes of Dan Sarginson, Tony Clubb, LMS and Ramon Silva who came through the London professional club route.

The pathway has been pretty clear and has been for a long time.

Edited by Damien
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13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

By all means, but don't get uppity when money isn't being spent in Bradford, East Greater Manchester or Calderdale because that is not where the best returns are vs Leeds, Wigan and Hull.

It's all very much M62 and only in my back yard. I suppose that's fine until someone decides his back yard isn't the best use of resources, such as when his club is not allowed an academy or if someone decides regional academies are better.

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6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Apart from youngsters like Kai Pearce Paul who get scouted and sign for big clubs.

Or the likes of Dan Sarginson, Tony Clubb, LMS and Ramon Silva who came through the London professional club route.

The pathway has been pretty clear and has been for a long time.

The top 5 Counties for developing juniors in England have been Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cheshire, Cumbria & Greater London. It is a heartland as much as anywhere else.

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8 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's all very much M62 and only in my back yard. I suppose that's fine until someone decides his back yard isn't the best use of resources, such as when his club is not allowed an academy or if someone decides regional academies are better.

Reductive arguments often lend themselves to ending up more reductive.

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1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

Interesting to hear on 40/20 this week that Steve Mascord has some involvement at the Skolars. 

I believe they sought investment from fans and others once David Argyle’s promise of money (where have we heard that before?) was non-existent, so it wouldn’t surprise me if Mascord had invested as his business partner Phill Browne was once involved at Skolars in some capacity. 

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

The likes of Dan Sarginson, Tony Clubb, and  LMS who came through the London professional club route.

The pathway has been pretty clear and has been for a long time.

Three great players of course, but the London RL scene and and London Broncos was in those days far more vibrant proposition than it is now. As it stands now Broncos are heading for League One....

So what will RL in London have to offer players like these three players then?

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3 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Three great players of course, but the London RL scene and and London Broncos was in those days far more vibrant proposition than it is now. As it stands now Broncos are heading for League One....

So what will RL in London have to offer players like these three players then?

The pathway is still there. Broncos for some reason released all their best young players at the end of last season. They are all at other clubs and some of them doing very well. London an important area for talent pathways. I do agree it's concerning what will happen when Broncos drop into league 1. It's a pretty unthinkable prospect

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7 minutes ago, steve oates said:

...

So what will RL in London have to offer players like these three players then?

That's a fair question. Just about the only thing done right at the Broncos has been their academy/scholarship set up. It that goes - and it's going downhill - something will need to fill the gap.

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9 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

That's a fair question. Just about the only thing done right at the Broncos has been their academy/scholarship set up. It that goes - and it's going downhill - something will need to fill the gap.

Indeed, but that's also the easiest bit for the RFL to justify taking over if the Broncos fold. A regional London & SE academy. 

A full time professional club in London is nice to have, but it isn't the most crucial bit in the pathway. We just need to get players up to the age of 19, then any that are serious about a full-time career as a professional sportsman should go north. 

Asking a 19 year old to move 2.5 hours up the motorway to further their career isn't unreasonable, indeed thousands of similar age southerners do just that every year for university. 

Rugby league in the southeast can survive the demise of the Broncos, if it comes to pass, but only if all involved, from Hughes to the Skolars and the RFL, take a proactive approach to preserving the best of what remains. 

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The doom and gloom in London is perfectly correct. Hughes has managed to wreck both RL sides in London, if Broncos go down there will be one left. However, the two of the biggest crowds in RL in the UK will most probably be in Tottenham with both the CC final and the World Cup semi being played there. It will be bizarre to see the wreath being put on London RL whilst huge crowds watch in a stadium 25 minutes walk from the Skolars ground. Maybe someone with some vision may see the possibilities......

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8 minutes ago, Quinskolar said:

The doom and gloom in London is perfectly correct. Hughes has managed to wreck both RL sides in London, if Broncos go down there will be one left. However, the two of the biggest crowds in RL in the UK will most probably be in Tottenham with both the CC final and the World Cup semi being played there. It will be bizarre to see the wreath being put on London RL whilst huge crowds watch in a stadium 25 minutes walk from the Skolars ground. Maybe someone with some vision may see the possibilities......

I've read that there have been 10 "elite" academy licenses awarded and that London Broncos actually have one of the ten places. First two games were heavy defeats so the RFL seem keen to continue promoting the best of London youth.....

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1 hour ago, steve oates said:

I've read that there have been 10 "elite" academy licenses awarded and that London Broncos actually have one of the ten places. First two games were heavy defeats so the RFL seem keen to continue promoting the best of London youth.....

Well an 'elite' academy is not solely based on results. Seems a lot of people don't know that 

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At the risk of repeating myself  ...... the London Broncos junior pathway is only as strong as the ability of community clubs to introduce the lads to RL. One look at 2022 London Junior League results / fixtures, in comparison to say even 3 or 4 years ago show how much of a rapid decline has taken place in club and team numbers in the region and ability of teams to field even 13 players. And I can speak from a place of knowledge having coached juniors down here for a good number of years. 

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On 25/04/2022 at 12:00, Toby Chopra said:

Broncos folding quickly and cleanly woyld genuinely be the best thing for RL in London. 

If it allowed someone else to come in with a clean slate and none of the negative association probably. But all the problems with not having infrastructure remain . There´s probably a solid semi pro team possible in London but unless it is a ground they part own or can generate rev off and utlilise the stadium for more than game day tough to see. 

RFL need a sucesful club if only to share the burden of that academy, which must stay open. Anyone know if there would be any possiblity to develope the skolars stadium if someone had the cash?

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25 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If it allowed someone else to come in with a clean slate and none of the negative association probably. But all the problems with not having infrastructure remain . There´s probably a solid semi pro team possible in London but unless it is a ground they part own or can generate rev off and utlilise the stadium for more than game day tough to see. 

RFL need a sucesful club if only to share the burden of that academy, which must stay open. Anyone know if there would be any possiblity to develope the skolars stadium if someone had the cash?

Possibly but as it's council owned depends on them. Running the stadium has been taken back in house by Harringey Council as Fusion were useless. They may be open to long term lease perhaps by RFL if they also run football, gym, athletics etc?

My wife complains I selfishly stop her fulfilling her true ambition -

she really wants to be a rich widow

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I can’t see a council of one of the most deprived boroughs of London pouring too much money into a sports stadium, if I’m honest. I can’t see The RFL doing so either.

As badly mismanaged as Broncos have been and their decision making in the last twelve months a real danger to them, the Skolars and the sport as a whole in the city, I don’t wish for them not to exist. I’ve some fond memories of London Broncos and travelling to numerous different grounds over the years as an away fan and I don’t wish for anyone’s club to simply not exist. I think it’s a little simplistic and naive to expect London Skolars’ support to swell should Broncos cease to exist, I can only imagine the thought of my club not existing and I do wonder whether the damage would see a sizeable portion of the ever shrinking Broncos support simply not bother anymore. 

Any academy run by The RFL or whoever would probably need Skolars to exist for those in the academy system who aren’t good enough and/or ready to move to a Super League side. 

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14 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I can’t see a council of one of the most deprived boroughs of London pouring too much money into a sports stadium, if I’m honest. I can’t see The RFL doing so either.

As badly mismanaged as Broncos have been and their decision making in the last twelve months a real danger to them, the Skolars and the sport as a whole in the city, I don’t wish for them not to exist. I’ve some fond memories of London Broncos and travelling to numerous different grounds over the years as an away fan and I don’t wish for anyone’s club to simply not exist. I think it’s a little simplistic and naive to expect London Skolars’ support to swell should Broncos cease to exist, I can only imagine the thought of my club not existing and I do wonder whether the damage would see a sizeable portion of the ever shrinking Broncos support simply not bother anymore. 

Any academy run by The RFL or whoever would probably need Skolars to exist for those in the academy system who aren’t good enough and/or ready to move to a Super League side. 

If their existence prevents another person from feeling theirs a space in the market with a clean slate then I´d rther they go. I just am still amazed that the one year you finally get a new stadium with ultra modern facilities and a good size, this was a great chance to promote the sport. So that´s when you go part time... delusional. 

I´m not expecting Skolars to jump tbh as London is huge and Wimbledon is nowhere near Haringley. But it may create a decent pt team that becomes competitive so more people wish to watch a team. 

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30 minutes ago, BJW said:

Possibly but as it's council owned depends on them. Running the stadium has been taken back in house by Harringey Council as Fusion were useless. They may be open to long term lease perhaps by RFL if they also run football, gym, athletics etc?

Looking at a couple of million to build a stand suitable to hold all of that. Remember in Enfield they had rolling stands so you weren´t all stuck behind the track. Although problem you have in Haringley is the high levels of transience in the population so could be positive (every year new market) but may make holding onto people tough. I also don´t like the brand London . City is way too big, have it be the name of the borough or area so that you can really tap into the local area.

London wouldnt be impossible but there problem is Bull´s problem or Oldhams. No infrastructure suitable, no chance to grow. 

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For what Skolars need from the venue, I don’t think they (or anyone else for that matter) need to do anything crazy like building of more stands. I don’t think they need to any Broncos style rebranding or stadium moves either, decreasing their brand reach by localising themselves would be Broncos levels of stupid. 

Any money, whether through Broncos, Skolars, The RFL, an investor or a combination of those needs to go into infrastructure. 

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It is beginning to look like the sport may lose more rugby league followers,as I follow the concerns for the past months/years of Broncos followers on their forum.

Only the sport of rugby league could,at the time of some people recommending large city names for clubs,lose Toronto,and have the worries about London Skolars and London Broncos. 

Even regional names for clubs don't seem to ensure longevity.

The sport needs a root and branch review,and,like the wealthy sport of soccer,where little Forest Green Rovers,with their lone millionaire owner and his sustainability and vegetarianism/veganism are managing success,we should also,immediately, have an independent regulator. 

https://theathletic.com/news/uk-government-approves-independent-regulator-in-football-and-integrity-test-for-new-club-owners/SR59Ly95NIHj/

A 5 years and a ten years business plan would also help.

Wealthy owners seem to leave the sport quite hurriedly, as at Widnes,Salford and Toronto.

There has to be a better way.

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

...I also don´t like the brand London . City is way too big, have it be the name of the borough or area so that you can really tap into the local area...

I don't know if you're right on this or not, but didn't Skolars call themselves North London Skolars for 7 or 8 years in the late 90s/early 2000s before reverting to just  London?

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1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

It is beginning to look like the sport may lose more rugby league followers,as I follow the concerns for the past months/years of Broncos followers on their forum.

Only the sport of rugby league could,at the time of some people recommending large city names for clubs,lose Toronto,and have the worries about London Skolars and London Broncos. 

Even regional names for clubs don't seem to ensure longevity.

The sport needs a root and branch review,and,like the wealthy sport of soccer,where little Forest Green Rovers,with their lone millionaire owner and his sustainability and vegetarianism/veganism are managing success,we should also,immediately, have an independent regulator. 

https://theathletic.com/news/uk-government-approves-independent-regulator-in-football-and-integrity-test-for-new-club-owners/SR59Ly95NIHj/

A 5 years and a ten years business plan would also help.

Wealthy owners seem to leave the sport quite hurriedly, as at Widnes,Salford and Toronto.

There has to be a better way.

FGR aren´t sustainable, they were bankrolled and financially doped through the leagues leading to the unsustainable spending that blights many clubs because they have to compete with dopers. His plan is to build a stadium nowhere near public transport. He´s put money in fair play but sustainable my ar$e frankly. The sports governing body is supposed to be an independent regulator and merely a sign that the fa surrendered control of their own job to a cabal of clubs. 

Football clubs tend to own their infrastructure and the ones that don´t or cant generate rev tend to be the ones in trouble. It all comes down to infrastructure. 

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