A rules question

[Number 16]

I don't watch much SL, but this happens in the NRL.

If a team gets a penalty and kicks for touch obviously play restarts from a tap ten metres in from touch, however what happens is that an attacking player will stand on the touchline and pass to the player 10 metres in to then commence play. It seems so structured that the throw from the touchline is almost a formal part of the penalty process.

I've searched the rules and can't see reference to this, nor in the guidance.

I ask because I've recently witnessed a couple of grassroots referees insist play restarts this extended way.

[V02]

41 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

I don't watch much SL, but this happens in the NRL.

If a team gets a penalty and kicks for touch obviously play restarts from a tap ten metres in from touch, however what happens is that an attacking player will stand on the touchline and pass to the player 10 metres in to then commence play. It seems so structured that the throw from the touchline is almost a formal part of the penalty process.

I've searched the rules and can't see reference to this, nor in the guidance.

I ask because I've recently witnessed a couple of grassroots referees insist play restarts this extended way.

It's not a part of the rules. It happens at SL/NRL cause there's ball boys taught to put the ball on the line. People elsewhere have assumed this is because it is part of the restart and now weirdly expect it.

 

[sentoffagain2]

  Thought it was April fools day for a minute.

[Dunbar]

This has been around for many many years.

I remember watching one of the first games the South African Union convert Ray Mordt played for Wigan in the mid 80's.

Wigan had kicked the penalty for touch and Mordt had the ball (must have bounced back or someone had thrown it to him) but instead of him tossing the ball to the hooker to tap restart, he ran over to the touchline and placed the ball on the line before throwing the ball infield. 

Not his fault, the ball boys always placed the ball there and it was something he had seen done every time and so he assumed it was the way play is restarted. 

I guess teams like to practice things with process and this is one of them.

[Number 16]

19 minutes ago, V02 said:

It's not a part of the rules. It happens at SL/NRL cause there's ball boys taught to put the ball on the line. People elsewhere have assumed this is because it is part of the restart and now weirdly expect it.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought. So I was correct in yelling to the refs that they didn't know the rules!

[dealwithit]

13 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

Yeah, that's what I thought. So I was correct in yelling to the refs that they didn't know the rules!

You were correct in your interpretation of the rules, but not correct in yelling at the referees. 

[Griff]

49 minutes ago, V02 said:

It's not a part of the rules. It happens at SL/NRL cause there's ball boys taught to put the ball on the line. People elsewhere have assumed this is because it is part of the restart and now weirdly expect it

Bless me.

Really ?

[Tubby]

When I was a ball boy in the late 70's & early 80's, I used to pass the ball to the lads playing for my team and put the ball on the touchline for the opposition, giving my team an advantage that I have no doubt was instrumental in them winning the Challenge Cup.  I did my bit...

 

[LeeF]

53 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

Yeah, that's what I thought. So I was correct in yelling to the refs that they didn't know the rules!

As already posted you weren’t correct in yelling to the refs.

At amateur level they may be using this to manage the game I.e. have a more controlled restart. The ball is not actually in play until the second phase is completed I.e. the ball is tapped by the foot

[Gav Wilson]

59 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

Yeah, that's what I thought. So I was correct in yelling to the refs that they didn't know the rules!

Bit weird that you're yelling at community referees for such an inconsequential aspect of the game.

[Number 16]

For the record! It was a pretty lame throwaway joke. I did not yell at any ref. 

Edited September 1 by Number 16

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

30 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

For the record! It was a pretty lame throwaway joke. I did not yell at any ref. 

No use backtracking now. The investigation is underway 

[Griff]

4 hours ago, Tubby said:

When I was a ball boy in the late 70's & early 80's, I used to pass the ball to the lads playing for my team and put the ball on the touchline for the opposition, giving my team an advantage that I have no doubt was instrumental in them winning the Challenge Cup.  I did my bit...

 

You wouldn't do that today.  You'd soon be sat in the stand.

[Tubby]

24 minutes ago, Griff said:

You wouldn't do that today.  You'd soon be sat in the stand.

They do seem to take things rather too seriously these days.  You should have seen what I got up to while I was doing the scoreboard…

[bobbruce]

My understanding is it was brought in to control the restarts by the ball boy placing the ball on the line for both teams. That way the home team wouldn’t get any advantage as in Tubbys earlier description. 

[Tubby]

36 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

My understanding is it was brought in to control the restarts by the ball boy placing the ball on the line for both teams. That way the home team wouldn’t get any advantage as in Tubbys earlier description. 

Are you saying it’s my fault?

[Number 16]

Twenty or so years ago the was a young lad who helped coach the juniors at Kingston/Elmbridge (lanky and very ginger!) who'd been a ballboy at the GB v Kangaroos test at Wembley in either 90 or 94. Anyway, whichever (it could have been either) the Aussies were chasing the game in the closing minutes and the ball went out and this lad was nearest with a spare ball. He deliberately played deaf with the Aussies screaming at him for the ball, and if memory serves me correctly, when he responded it was with a wildly wayward pass. I have seen a photo of it, and I think I saw the TV coverage too.

Good lad tho', but his name escapes me!

[Impartial Observer]

7 hours ago, Number 16 said:

Yeah, that's what I thought. So I was correct in yelling to the refs that they didn't know the rules!

Laws not rules 

[dboy]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

My understanding is it was brought in to control the restarts by the ball boy placing the ball on the line for both teams. That way the home team wouldn’t get any advantage as in Tubbys earlier description. 

Correct.

Also Lee Jackson's fault.

 

Edited September 1 by dboy

[corvusxiii]

1 hour ago, dboy said:

Correct.

Also Lee Jackson's fault.

 

I remember watching this at the time and not knowing what the hell had just happened. I knew something had happened but what?

I'm sure this was shown on QoS 'what happens next'. Still largely clueless even though I knew what happened.

Strange dislocation from the norm. I'm sure there Ref was feeling much the same.

[The Rocket]

19 hours ago, Number 16 said:

I don't watch much SL, but this happens in the NRL.

If a team gets a penalty and kicks for touch obviously play restarts from a tap ten metres in from touch, however what happens is that an attacking player will stand on the touchline and pass to the player 10 metres in to then commence play. It seems so structured that the throw from the touchline is almost a formal part of the penalty process.

I've searched the rules and can't see reference to this, nor in the guidance.

I ask because I've recently witnessed a couple of grassroots referees insist play restarts this extended way.

Could this possibly an echo of our union past where the team kicking the ball into touch off a penalty take the line out throw into the field of play. We`ve, like a lot of things in League have abbreviated it and just got rid of the line-out part so now the ball is thrown directly to one of your own players who doesn`t even have to tap it on the ground but tap with his/her foot and play on. The other classic example of course is the PTB being an abbreviated version of the ruck/scrum.

Interesting that the ball is not required to be thrown from the sideline backwards, but perpendicular to the sideline like a lineout throw. Like the line-out throw as well there is no time limit to how quickly the throw in field can be made once the touch judge has marked the spot.

 

[Barry Badrinath]

20 hours ago, Number 16 said:

I don't watch much SL, but this happens in the NRL.

If a team gets a penalty and kicks for touch obviously play restarts from a tap ten metres in from touch, however what happens is that an attacking player will stand on the touchline and pass to the player 10 metres in to then commence play. It seems so structured that the throw from the touchline is almost a formal part of the penalty process.

I've searched the rules and can't see reference to this, nor in the guidance.

I ask because I've recently witnessed a couple of grassroots referees insist play restarts this extended way.

It's part of the laws but not currently written down, I saw someone ask Ian Smith about this in twitter during covid, as we didn't have ballboys but had other players from the squad acting as such and it took them a while to get to grips with it.

 

Its about it being a controlled restart/process. 

 

Remember when lee Smith scored for Hull ages ago, when he hid a ball behind his back? That sort of scenario

[Barry Badrinath]

Lee Jackson,  sorry

https://youtube.com/shorts/ONhZ0hWuapo?feature=share

Edited September 2 by Barry Badrinath

[Number 16]

2 hours ago, Barry Badrinath said:

Lee Jackson,  sorry

https://youtube.com/shorts/ONhZ0hWuapo?feature=share

Already posted above! 

[bobbruce]

7 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Could this possibly an echo of our union past where the team kicking the ball into touch off a penalty take the line out throw into the field of play. We`ve, like a lot of things in League have abbreviated it and just got rid of the line-out part so now the ball is thrown directly to one of your own players who doesn`t even have to tap it on the ground but tap with his/her foot and play on. The other classic example of course is the PTB being an abbreviated version of the ruck/scrum.

Interesting that the ball is not required to be thrown from the sideline backwards, but perpendicular to the sideline like a lineout throw. Like the line-out throw as well there is no time limit to how quickly the throw in field can be made once the touch judge has marked the spot.

 

No connection to RU as it’s was brought in fairly recently last 10-15 years or so. It is purely about controlling the restart so it’s the same for both teams.