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Derek Beaumont: Leigh will win SL or Challenge Cup in 3-5 years


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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

6,500 Leythers there on Sunday in the Championship

Exactly.

A decent crowd but well under what we should be expecting as normal gates for our top tier clubs.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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9 hours ago, The Daddy said:

In saying this I would have hoped in IMG's plans that clubs outside of SL that do not enhance the geographical diversity of the sport would have to demonstrate that they bring significant added commercial and more importantly strategic value to the competition in order to play in the league. This is taking into account that we now currently have 5 clubs in the North West alone in SL just a few miles apart and 4 in West Yorkshire this is just not sustainable and I wanted IMG to really tackle this imbalance head on. 

The issue is none of the clubs outside the heartlands aside from Catalans have been able to be sustainable in SL when given their opportunity. London, Toronto, Crusaders, PSG all failures in the top flight. You can only grow the game outside the heartlands if there are clubs equal to or better than the ones in the heartlands. Creating and throwing these teams into SL just for 'image' if they fail soon after is pointless.

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Exactly.

A decent crowd but well under what we should be expecting as normal gates for our top tier clubs.

Many clubs dont average 7500+ - which would have been the true attendance incl corporate/sponsors. 6600 was Leighs SL average in 2017, hope we beat that in 2023 despite the economic reality

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1 minute ago, sweaty craiq said:

Many clubs dont average 7500+ 

I know.

Hence why the sport is in the shape it's in.

It's not a Leigh specific observation. I've made it elsewhere when folk talk about wanting clubs who might get 8k once or twice a season *as an ambition*.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

That is the general feeling among Rugby League fans and even some Leigh fans

Dexy gambled everything on getting promotion with all the imports without thinking how he can get Leigh to stay up without the imports

Feelings don't make facts, especially when you ignore all evidence to the contrary. Chester/Lam were given full permission to sign a SL squad for 2023 regardless of promotion back in May, plenty of signings have already been made for next year - they just haven't started announcing them yet as it's always been DB's policy not to announce signings until the end of the season has passed.

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10 hours ago, The Daddy said:

I don't doubt that Leigh with Derek's backing has the resources to win silverware.

Here's where I have a problem though, RL in the UK already has several issues around geographical diversity and lack of clubs within large catchment areas. This leads to the major issue with perception the sport has with sponsors and the casual sports and entertainment customer. 

Leigh being in SL in itself compounds this image and makes the competition look even more small time than what it already is.

Gradually over time the world of UK RL is shrinking and is starting to become an echo chamber for supporters of small town clubs to assert their identity in allegiance with their club at the expense of the commercial growth and health of RL overall. To them, this is not just about sport it's about self identity, culture and ownership. To be honest I find many of these supporters and owners selfish, it's the attitude that they should be in SL regardless of the fact that there are 5 or 6 other clubs down the road all competing over what little  sponsors, youth players and supporters are left, this mindset is cannibalising the potential RL has. It's just nonsensical.

In my view IMG made some very good proposals but they didn't go far enough, which is understandable given that these same clubs get to vote on the proposals (turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas).

In saying this I would have hoped in IMG's plans that clubs outside of SL that do not enhance the geographical diversity of the sport would have to demonstrate that they bring significant added commercial and more importantly strategic value to the competition in order to play in the league. This is taking into account that we now currently have 5 clubs in the North West alone in SL just a few miles apart and 4 in West Yorkshire this is just not sustainable and I wanted IMG to really tackle this imbalance head on. 

Derek Beaumont coming out and saying that Leigh can win silverware in 3-5 years tells me that despite IMG'S well thought through proposals the lunatics are still in charge of the asylum. 

So what you really mean is Elbow a club out the way and fast track London to SL, you mention clubs getting votes, realistically would other clubs want London in SL? So please tell me again what commercial growth and health along with significant commercial and strategic value will London add, and in doing so please leave the word 'potential' behind I have been hearing that for so many years now it is like a long playing record, I have the utmost respect for the supporters of the Bronco's but there is just to few of them, does the public of whatever Borough that they have ever been sited really want them, the evidence says no they dont.

Honestly Daddy, you are no different to those supporters of the small town clubs your rant is all about having London Bronco's in the top flight, like Leigh you have been there and done that, Leigh is having another go and I will be going along with them for the ride and I do hope that the 'Lunatics' new strategy of building a team prior to the present season finishing works out and we stay there to see his prophecy comes true, and I don't give a flying one who it upsets.

 

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29 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I know.

Hence why the sport is in the shape it's in.

It's not a Leigh specific observation. I've made it elsewhere when folk talk about wanting clubs who might get 8k once or twice a season *as an ambition*.

So whats your strategy Ginger, put some pins in maps and relocate teams into wider areas where there will be no competition for support?

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Just now, Harry Stottle said:

So whats your strategy Ginger, put some pins in maps and relocate teams into wider areas where there will be no competition for support?

Fully support the IMG proposals as put forward so far.

There's quite a few threads about them, actually. Maybe you've noticed.

Being happy with the sixth best attendance in Million Pound Game history hopefully won't cut it so much in the future.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Fully support the IMG proposals as put forward so far.

There's quite a few threads about them, actually. Maybe you've noticed.

Being happy with the sixth best attendance in Million Pound Game history hopefully won't cut it so much in the future.

Agree, but pity is there will be no more MPG's to test the attendances, but never mind hopefully my club gets the rating to keep them in SL for '24, if they don't I will get my RL fix by going to the two NCL clubs in the town, me and the pro game will part after too many years that I care to remember.

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54 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

The issue is none of the clubs outside the heartlands aside from Catalans have been able to be sustainable in SL when given their opportunity. London, Toronto, Crusaders, PSG all failures in the top flight. You can only grow the game outside the heartlands if there are clubs equal to or better than the ones in the heartlands. Creating and throwing these teams into SL just for 'image' if they fail soon after is pointless.

If you are including London then you may as well be including Leigh, Workington, Widnes, Halifax etc.

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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

The issue is none of the clubs outside the heartlands aside from Catalans have been able to be sustainable in SL when given their opportunity. London, Toronto, Crusaders, PSG all failures in the top flight. You can only grow the game outside the heartlands if there are clubs equal to or better than the ones in the heartlands. Creating and throwing these teams into SL just for 'image' if they fail soon after is pointless.

It is a bit disingenuous to include Catalans when naming London,Toronto,Crusaders PSG.

Catalans were formed in the 1930's and were saved from relegation from Super League for 3 years.

London have been nomadic and have never owned a home stadium.

Toronto,Crusaders and PSG had limited ,if any,due diligence done on infrastructure and ownership.

Also,the conduct afforded the above named clubs impacted on at least one heartlands club who were not permitted to join the elite at the big boys table.

Actions,omissions, and reactions which reverberate today.

Ideal opportunity for a wealthy individual,or consortium, to purchase a stadium in Worcester,or Coventry,and then relocate an elite side from Super League,then they can grow the game outside the heartlands and win silverware within 3-5 years.

That'll be a good image. 

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On 04/10/2022 at 11:55, Damien said:

Nothing wrong with a bit of ambition and if he puts his money where his mouth is then good on him.

What money?

He has an estimated personal wealth of 10 million. Richer than me but hardly Ken Davey territory is it.

He's been peddling this for a decade already and it's hardly panned out, it's not that long ago Leigh nearly went under and he was in charge at the time.

You'd hope he'd have learned something since then but clearly not. The five year promise is the oldest in RL and has been uttered by countless chairman, the list of those who've said it is long, the list of those who've made it happen is very short.

Maurice Lindsey was probably the last.

 

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3 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

What money?

He has an estimated personal wealth of 10 million. Richer than me but hardly Ken Davey territory is it.

He's been peddling this for a decade already and it's hardly panned out, it's not that long ago Leigh nearly went under and he was in charge at the time.

You'd hope he'd have learned something since then but clearly not. The five year promise is the oldest in RL and has been uttered by countless chairman, the list of those who've said it is long, the list of those who've made it happen is very short.

Maurice Lindsey was probably the last.

So what? If it doesn't happen then it doesn't happen, its not the end of the world.

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1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

Many clubs dont average 7500+ - which would have been the true attendance incl corporate/sponsors. 6600 was Leighs SL average in 2017, hope we beat that in 2023 despite the economic reality

Leigh's attendances will be well above the likes of Salford, Huddersfield and Wakefield next season. There's every possibility that they could jump above Castleford, Catalans and Hull KR and even push Warrington to be the 5th largest in terms of attendances. 

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Yes ideally we need clubs who average 8k as opposed to their limit. Hence why locking Toulouse in is good, as it worked with Catalan and Toulouse were matching Giants crowds despite being dross. 

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I know.

Hence why the sport is in the shape it's in.

It's not a Leigh specific observation. I've made it elsewhere when folk talk about wanting clubs who might get 8k once or twice a season *as an ambition*.

But just as important for me is seeing clubs get the rev to spend cap in TV appropriate stadiums as this is what sky or anyone could pay for. 

If you had 6.5k in a 8-10k ground instead of in a 20k stadium thats suddenly 13 more games sky can show and when the sport is on telly it does need to come across as a happening event.

Its why I am not fussed about Leigh whilst so many clubs do worse than them in the top flight.

Would also be curious to know what clubs in UK or new markets if you wish would ever be able to average 8k. I dont see many.

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51 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

It is a bit disingenuous to include Catalans when naming London,Toronto,Crusaders PSG.

Catalans were formed in the 1930's and were saved from relegation from Super League for 3 years.

London have been nomadic and have never owned a home stadium.

Toronto,Crusaders and PSG had limited ,if any,due diligence done on infrastructure and ownership.

Also,the conduct afforded the above named clubs impacted on at least one heartlands club who were not permitted to join the elite at the big boys table.

Actions,omissions, and reactions which reverberate today.

Ideal opportunity for a wealthy individual,or consortium, to purchase a stadium in Worcester,or Coventry,and then relocate an elite side from Super League,then they can grow the game outside the heartlands and win silverware within 3-5 years.

That'll be a good image. 

The problem teams outside the heartlands face is lack of players coming through the ranks. It will cost considerably more to entice players to a club if it means they have to relocate so they end up paying over the odds. It also means the team is unsettled as a lack of a production line means that there is always a lot of player movement each season.

A serious effort for expansion for me needs a big junior development push alongside a club entering SL from outside the heartlands 

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4 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yes ideally we need clubs who average 8k as opposed to their limit. Hence why locking Toulouse in is good, as it worked with Catalan and Toulouse were matching Giants crowds despite being dross. 

But just as important for me is seeing clubs get the rev to spend cap in TV appropriate stadiums as this is what sky or anyone could pay for. 

If you had 6.5k in a 8-10k ground instead of in a 20k stadium thats suddenly 13 more games sky can show and when the sport is on telly it does need to come across as a happening event.

Its why I am not fussed about Leigh whilst so many clubs do worse than them in the top flight.

Would also be curious to know what clubs in UK or new markets if you wish would ever be able to average 8k. I dont see many.

Average crowds for the whole of SL last season were just 8226. They've only averaged higher than 10,000 on three occasions (2008, 2012 and 2015).  

Last season, Salford (4529), Wakefield (4613), Toulouse (4974), Huddersfield (5144) had the lowest closely followed by Cas, Hull KR and Catalans.

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59 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Fully support the IMG proposals as put forward so far.

There's quite a few threads about them, actually. Maybe you've noticed.

Being happy with the sixth best attendance in Million Pound Game history hopefully won't cut it so much in the future.

What are the top 5 attendances when folk paid proper ticket prices to get in - Thats 2 x TW and 1 X TO out the way, so HKR v Salford? and Wakey v Bulls by a couple of dozen but certainly contained 3k Bulls fans min

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1 hour ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

What money?

He has an estimated personal wealth of 10 million. Richer than me but hardly Ken Davey territory is it.

He's been peddling this for a decade already and it's hardly panned out, it's not that long ago Leigh nearly went under and he was in charge at the time.

You'd hope he'd have learned something since then but clearly not. The five year promise is the oldest in RL and has been uttered by countless chairman, the list of those who've said it is long, the list of those who've made it happen is very short.

Maurice Lindsey was probably the last.

 

Personal wealth?? Great thing with Derek is that his business is current and making £3m plus pa in profits, assets do not pay bills. Cant comment on the other guys who have joined the ride, believe its £billions though

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3 hours ago, Tubby said:

Derek Beaumont has come across as a complete berk plenty of times , particularly with his social media outbursts (sorry, his son's social media outbursts) and I can't say I look at him with admiration.  This kind of statement would go down a storm in the US, where confidence/arrogance is highly prized, but we prefer a bit of humility here.

But, the irony of all these fans of clubs based in other small Northern towns, or fans of large city clubs who can't get 500 fans through the gate whining about Leigh being small town, full of overseas players, oiks, upstarts and not worthy of joining their perfect clubs in SL is frankly making my teeth hurt.

Good luck to Leigh, but also good luck to all the other clubs around them, whosoever plays well next season compared to their peers will finish higher in the league and well done to them.  We're all supporters of the same sport, but you wouldn't think so sometimes.

Can't be talking about Salford then as we're a large Northern city.😁

I think Leigh's main issue will be getting in the British players good enough to complement some of their talented overseas "stars". The ones they currently have aren't good enough and have been surplus to requirements at other (often bottom end) SL clubs (Brand, Chamberlain, Mellor, Wardle etc). A couple of names mentioned already are solid if unspectacular and are they an improvement on the outgoing players? Unless Lam Sr is capable of getting another 10-15% out of them then I can't see them filling the gaps that have been left by the outgoing players. From his time at Wigan there has to be question marks over whether he can do that.

The only way I can see them strengthening their homegrown talent pool is by enticing players away from their current clubs with transfer fees and fairly hefty wage increases. 

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1 hour ago, Roughyed Rats said:

Average crowds for the whole of SL last season were just 8226. They've only averaged higher than 10,000 on three occasions (2008, 2012 and 2015).  

Last season, Salford (4529), Wakefield (4613), Toulouse (4974), Huddersfield (5144) had the lowest closely followed by Cas, Hull KR and Catalans.

Yep I know, that´s why you want new clubs coming in to be able to push towards an 8k average to raise the bar. Toulouse could, Wakefield can improve but hard to see where someone else would get close. So for me it´s about clubs being in stadiums appropriate to their size so it´s actually televisable. 

Catalan average 8000, that isn´t close to the four teams you mentioned, it´s thousands ahead. The three weakest are Wakefield, Salford and Giants. One is improving (Wakey) , one might improve (Salford if they actually get the ground to generate rev) and one can´t improve (Giants are trapped in that box). So those are the three at risk and over the next couple of years those are the teams that need to shape up or get mpoved aside to give someone else a crack. 

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