37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[steve oates]

14 hours ago, dkw said:

There's 2 ways for clubs to react to this IMG thing, grasp the opportunity and attempt to grow with the situation, or throw their toys out the pram as they aren't happy with change or an expectation of some effort. Great to see Hull KR go with the former, hopefully others follow suit.

I would not attribute the new director at Hull.K.R to the "work" of IMG.  It's quite clear this gentleman has been knocking around with Hudgell for many years, it is clear he's rich. Now may be the time as his kids (who maybe are into HKR big time) grow along with his current bank balance, for him to go part time maybe and enjoy a directorship, with some of the good money he's made over the years.

The Gentleman's circumstances are most likely to be just that rather than him spotting the name of IMG and him saying "I'm in if IMG are in"  after all it's evident few have heard of these marketeers, and equally evident they have little to offer but a "grading" system....

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

2 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Mind how you go - I am aware of a number of entrepreneurs who vacillate between bankruptcy and wealth.

 

Yes that's right. In the US the average multi-million dollar entrepreneur has failed 5 times before they won big. Each of those failures were part of the learning curve required to succeed. if you don't fail at things, you're not trying hard enough.

In the same sense, clubs with ambition and drive who have failed before but have good ideas, energy, and capability to succeed in the next market opportunity are a better investment bet than those who have never had a proper go at something, ever. The battle scars are an asset, if you learn the right lessons and go again. 

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

4 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I would not attribute the new director at Hull.K.R to the "work" of IMG.  It's quite clear this gentleman has been knocking around with Hudgell for many years, it is clear he's rich. Now may be the time as his kids (who maybe are into HKR big time) grow along with his current bank balance, for him to go part time maybe and enjoy a directorship, with some of the good money he's made over the years.

The Gentleman's circumstances are most likely to be just that rather than him spotting the name of IMG and him saying "I'm in if IMG are in"  after all it's evident few have heard of these marketeers, and equally evident they have little to offer but a "grading" system....

Paul Lakin has been key behind the scenes with the IMG deal. He believes new investors, who've been on the margins but not acted decisively before, have been persuaded to act by this tipping point. I'll go with his judgement, and the evidence of changed results for Hull KR so far at least.  

[steve oates]

12 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Absolutely. We should be using IMG’s 12 year commitment as 3rd party validation that Rugby League is a good long-term investment. In my real life we call it “social capital”, and the credibility could be priceless if we lean into it 

As a HKR fan maybe you can ponder on the idea your new director may not actually be an IMG "scalp" but a Hudgell scalp. Hudgell has chased other people down the years to increase the directorship funding. 

Let's wait and see if any other wealthy businessmen across the M62 who don't have that great an interest in Rugby League suddenly come out and say ""Oh Rugby League is partnering with IMG - quick, where do I sign up to be a director

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 minute ago, steve oates said:

As a HKR fan maybe you can ponder on the idea your new director may not actually be an IMG "scalp" but a Hudgell scalp. Hudgell has chased other people down the years to increase the directorship funding. 

Let's wait and see if any other wealthy businessmen across the M62 who don't have that great an interest in Rugby League suddenly come out and say ""Oh Rugby League is partnering with IMG - quick, where do I sign up to be a director

I don't need miracles like that, all I need are the behavioural nudges to turn prior consideration into present action, as we've seen here.

It's a game of inches, not yards. 

[steve oates]

3 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Paul Lakin has been key behind the scenes with the IMG deal. He believes new investors, who've been on the margins but not acted decisively before, have been persuaded to act by this tipping point. I'll go with his judgement, and the evidence of changed results for Hull KR so far at least.  

With respect at some point some Journalist has to ask, or Hudgell has to reveal, that it was IMG's presence in the game that secured the new HKR director.  Hudgell is there to ask.

You yourself may wish to explain what it is that a couple of IMG marketeers working on results only, who have only come up with "A" "B" and "C" which we have done before should take the credit for Lakin.

Or will every directorship appointment at any club have to be attributed to IMG.?? This is no proof that IMG can draw rich men into the game, we need to see/hear some......

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

13 minutes ago, steve oates said:

With respect at some point some Journalist has to ask, or Hudgell has to reveal, that it was IMG's presence in the game that secured the new HKR director.  Hudgell is there to ask.

You yourself may wish to explain what it is that a couple of IMG marketeers working on results only, who have only come up with "A" "B" and "C" which we have done before should take the credit for Lakin.

Or will every directorship appointment at any club have to be attributed to IMG.?? This is no proof that IMG can draw rich men into the game, we need to see/hear some......

You can invent as many tests as hurdles as you want, I don't think Neil has to jump over any of them just because your psyche needs it. Paul says it's a factor, that's enough, we're not in court 

[steve oates]

12 hours ago, north yorks trinity said:

I wonder if many people have actually heard of them. I hadn't, though accept it could just be my ignorance. 

I don't see why you need to have heard of IMG. unless you run a rather large business that cannot get enough customers or investment to boost your business. That problem is, what leads to businesses calling in the marketeers!!. There are only generally two results here, either your business is boosted by these people or it is not boosted and is left with a massive bill for nothing.

The view of the Superleague directors is different, it is that they aren't going to pay a penny without results. The IMG reaction from IMG was they aren't going to do much  but will try something.... Which in our case was tried before when we went to licensing, so straight from the start people in the game were alerted to IMG's lack of ideas.

No.....  Hull K.R. are not growing on and off the field because of something IMG have done, they just got a new rich director who was already associated with the club and Hudgell, an event which other clubs have grown on. Leeds and Warrington landed two really big investors, they didn't use some marketeers to "attract" those gentlemen to buy into the two clubs.

[steve oates]

11 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Paul says it's a factor, that's enough, we're not in court 

Paul ain't going to do anything else is he. But you know the factors are his relationship with Hudgell, his love of HKR, and probably the time is right for him personally. Paul is certainly not going to dis IMG in public, "It's a factor" is his feint praise to get out of saying anything negative about IMG.

If you and others think IMG boosted HKR by influencing someone to take a directorship then why not call for the Superleague to now start paying IMG a few thousand on the back of this "result" and let them negotiate some more rich businessmen to come in at the Boulevard???

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

21 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I don't see why you need to have heard of IMG. unless you run a rather large business that cannot get enough customers or investment to boost your business. That problem is, what leads to businesses calling in the marketeers!!. There are only generally two results here, either your business is boosted by these people or it is not boosted and is left with a massive bill for nothing.

The view of the Superleague directors is different, it is that they aren't going to pay a penny without results. The IMG reaction from IMG was they aren't going to do much  but will try something.... Which in our case was tried before when we went to licensing, so straight from the start people in the game were alerted to IMG's lack of ideas.

No.....  Hull K.R. are not growing on and off the field because of something IMG have done, they just got a new rich director who was already associated with the club and Hudgell, an event which other clubs have grown on. Leeds and Warrington landed two really big investors, they didn't use some marketeers to "attract" those gentlemen to buy into the two clubs.

I get it, you don't like the strategic partnership so want to find problems with it

But it's not about whether it helps attract investors. That's a strawman. Our sport needs those, and it has helped Hull KR make a couple of positive steps, but Rugby League needs so much more than that.

IMG's impact isn't going to be the minor structure tweaks that have been announced. That's a red herring. In fact they've said one of Rugby League's serial problems is the obsession with changing structures as a naive route to growth, so they really don't want to spend much time looking at that... because we should be focused on product and promotion. That's where they will add value during the next 12 years. 

Look at the Euro Basketball league case study if you need evidence. That competition has transformed in the last decade, and this is the opportunity we have now.

 

[Man of Kent]

I think the point with Hull KR investment and the IMG deal is the intention to turn SL into a rebranded, franchised league of A grade clubs. Taking away the risk of relegation gives a level of comfort to potential investors the current system cannot.  

[dkw]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

 Now may be the time as his kids (who maybe are into HKR big time) grow along with his current bank balance, for him to go part time maybe and enjoy a directorship, with some of the good money he's made over the years.

 

What a very bizarre little hypothetical you just built there based on absolutely nothing. 

[Dave W]

Talking of bizarre little hypotheticals built on absolutely nothing, I was thinking about what Category C might look like.

Would it be possible that one or two clubs end up being uncategorised? There's a world of difference between what's happening in North Wales and West Wales, for example.

There has to be a minimum acceptable standard for a C1 club and if some don't meet it, it needs calling out or else everything harmonises downwards.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Dave W

[sweaty craiq]

2 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I get it, you don't like the strategic partnership so want to find problems with it

But it's not about whether it helps attract investors. That's a strawman. Our sport needs those, and it has helped Hull KR make a couple of positive steps, but Rugby League needs so much more than that.

IMG's impact isn't going to be the minor structure tweaks that have been announced. That's a red herring. In fact they've said one of Rugby League's serial problems is the obsession with changing structures as a naive route to growth, so they really don't want to spend much time looking at that... because we should be focused on product and promotion. That's where they will add value during the next 12 years. 

Look at the Euro Basketball league case study if you need evidence. That competition has transformed in the last decade, and this is the opportunity we have now.

 

The UK team sports pie is not simply Soccer, thus Basketball always had a great opportunity in Europe - especially when many clubs became part of the soccer club.

Is RL's future to become a side show sport for Soccer clubs in the UK - guaranteeing its success imo by clinging onto the scraps from the cash cow.?

Would Leigh being part of Sporting club Man U, or Salford being a part of Sporting club Man C, or Leeds R with Leeds Utd, Saints with Liverpool, Wire with Everton, London with Arsenal/Tottenham etc be an issue if success/growth was guaranteed? 

[steve oates]

3 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I get it, you don't like the strategic partnership so want to find problems with it. But it's not about whether it helps attract investors. 

IMG's impact isn't going to be the minor structure tweaks that have been announced. That's a red herring. In fact they've said one of Rugby League's serial problems is the obsession with changing structures 

Look at the Euro Basketball league case study if you need evidence. That competition has transformed in the last decade, and this is the opportunity we have now.

No you don't get it. Once again IMG a rather large and wealthy and at times successful organisation has been allowed by the clubs to "see what they can do" but there will be no payment without results. In turn IMG have left one of their crew to fiddle with a possible new structure which as everybody pointed out, we tried before and it failed. Now he's gone until February..........

Euro basketball simply isn't Rugby League....... their success is not relevant to our chances of success......

But you are of course welcome to set out where we will be in 10 years time and how we will get there...??????

[HawkMan]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

Would Leigh being part of Sporting club Man U, or Salford being a part of Sporting club Man C, or Leeds R with Leeds Utd, Saints with Liverpool, Wire with Everton, London with Arsenal/Tottenham etc be an issue if success/growth was guaranteed? 

Wire with Everton? Yep that figures.

Edited December 13, 2022 by HawkMan

[steve oates]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

Would Leigh being part of Sporting club Man U....... 

Oh don't start any more dreaming Craiq....  Just concentrate on coming 11th. this season.....

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Yes that's right. In the US the average multi-million dollar entrepreneur has failed 5 times before they won big. Each of those failures were part of the learning curve required to succeed. if you don't fail at things, you're not trying hard enough.

In the same sense, clubs with ambition and drive who have failed before but have good ideas, energy, and capability to succeed in the next market opportunity are a better investment bet than those who have never had a proper go at something, ever. The battle scars are an asset, if you learn the right lessons and go again. 

 

You mean like Dereck Beaumont ? 

And Leigh ? 

Edited December 13, 2022 by GUBRATS

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

I think the point with Hull KR investment and the IMG deal is the intention to turn SL into a rebranded, franchised league of A grade clubs. Taking away the risk of relegation gives a level of comfort to potential investors the current system cannot.  

To those in it , the opposite to those not in it 

[Harry Stottle]

30 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Oh don't start any more dreaming Craiq....  Just concentrate on coming 11th. this season.....

That will do ......... if only to upset some.

[Fevrover]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That will do ......... if only to upset some.

YOU upset some Harry ? Nar dunt belive .

[sweaty craiq]

42 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Wire with Everton is perfect as neither win anything anymore.

Totally agree

[sweaty craiq]

47 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Oh don't start any more dreaming Craiq....  Just concentrate on coming 11th. this season.....

I expected better from you Steve.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

2 hours ago, steve oates said:

No you don't get it. Once again IMG a rather large and wealthy and at times successful organisation has been allowed by the clubs to "see what they can do" but there will be no payment without results. In turn IMG have left one of their crew to fiddle with a possible new structure which as everybody pointed out, we tried before and it failed. Now he's gone until February..........

Euro basketball simply isn't Rugby League....... their success is not relevant to our chances of success......

But you are of course welcome to set out where we will be in 10 years time and how we will get there...??????

 

I see a half-full glass here, I reckon I know what you see though…

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

 

I see a half-full glass here, I reckon I know what you see though…

"I see a man who only drank it because he loves HKR and Neil Hudgell is his friend and he definitely didn't let IMGs involvement and their future plans influence his decision to invest in HKR even though he said it because..."