37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[dkw]

14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a shame that despite all this money and progress the MLS/A-League cannot produce one player who would get in the England side. Not really a zinger of a comment is it?

Fwiw, when was the last time a British RL player would have been envied by the Australians, and when was the last before him. 30 years ago? 40?

Weve had 2 or 3 in the past 10 years, James Graham and the Burgess`s (Burgi?) would have had a very good shout getting into any Aus side. For a few seasons players like Whitehead, Bateman, Hodgson would have got into most Aus Squads, going back a bit further Morley, Ellis.

We dont have the depth of squad players they do, but this disparaging of English players is tiresome.

[Iceberg Slim]

14 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

It's a shame that despite all this money and progress that SL cannot produce one player who would get selected in the Australian side.

Super League isn’t the issue. It’s always grassroots. 
 

it’s also where your sport ranks amongst the demographic. Nsw and qld have the fortune of getting the best athletes of those states as rugby league is ranked amongst the most popular. 
 

does rugby league get top picking of the best talent nationally? I highly doubt it. Likewise in nz. The all blacks have some of the best athletes in the country whereas the kiwis wouldn’t rank amongst the all blacks. 
 

it’s says more about super leagues inability to build a national brand. It isn’t tapping into the countries best athletes and that reflects in the competition and the national teams results. 

[Farmduck]

It's all just basic pyramid theory. The broader the base the better the players need to be to get to reach the top. Hypothetically, If there's only 20 blokes in Wakefield who play RL then they all get SL contracts even if none of them would be signed by anyone else.

I haven't seen the latest figures but Ive seen a survey by a sports medicine group saying at least 150,000 Australians aged 15-24 played RL within the last year. With a base that large it would be amazing if Australia wasn't a consistent winner.

[steve oates]

On 02/12/2022 at 14:06, dkw said:

You know it can be both, right?

Yes I do DKW, but I credit Mr. Hudgell as being a very smart gentleman who does not need the like of IMG to progress Hull Kingston Rovers fortunes . The evidence is it is Mr. Hudgell (and formerly Mr. Crossland?) who rescued HKR from the mess the club got in some years ago, long before IMG, and Mr. Hudgell is still progressing the work accordingly........

I'd suggest the Credit lies with Mr. Hudgell 100%.

[Dovster]

9 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Nope. Everyone has the opportunity. If you want to dream big, go for it. But the market is ultimately the real source of truth, and for many clubs it has been asked what it thinks for over 100 years and has given its very clear answer. Contrast Bradford with Keighley for example. Clearly there’s a market for scalable success in one, and there isn’t in the other.
 

The future model provides clubs with elite level potential like the Bulls with a far more sensible way to build back than “pray our local caravan decking millionaire will come along and splurge £1m blowing Featherstone’s wage budget off the park one year”. If they instead do the right things to build a growth platform, they can join - on a sustainable basis, adding value to the league.

You might find that frankness confronting. So be it. Personally I think us making small clubs feel better about themselves for years has held the game back. It’s time to stop playing for the lowest common denominator, and to start looking upwards. 

 

 

I agree with your opening point regarding market forces but then you continue to argue with yourself by saying historically this has been the case. We can certainly learn from history but should allow it to limit our ambitions going forward.

You also mention having to rely on millionairre supoorters. My understanding is that many SL teams also rely upon these people.

Personally from what i have heard,IMG do make some good points. However the RFL has lost a lot of credibility and respect when implementing these kind of rules.

One final point IMG may feel that 2 SL teams in one city is restricting the spread of the game and a crowd of 8k is not sufficient for the top of the sport.

[steve oates]

On 02/12/2022 at 14:11, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

It's both, they're not contradictory.

In fact its more than that: The reason Neil H is still involved to the extent he is (having considered passing the baton), is also down to the IMG opportunities and his belief in the type of future that may come from them. It's a force multiplier. 

I first saw Rovers "live in person" years ago when with a friend we attempted to visit every Rugby League ground!! IIRC Rovers had a superb star studded team, and big support but a terrible ground that doubled as a dog track. The Boulevard doubled as a speedway track!!!  I later followed the demise of Rovers and their drop to, I think, the third division of the league?  Again I seem to recall them coming close to counting crowds in the hundreds. 

Then in came Crossland and Hudgell who rescued the club.  I remember Hudgell nearly selling the club to a dubious character the RFL would not allow!!  He's tried to pass the Baton long before now, but thankfully has remained at the club and steered the club right back to the top in a top facility.

Nowt to do with IMG in my opinion, but I will keep an open mind and await something concrete IMG come up with that in turn is adopted, and in turn again directly raises the fortunes of Superleague. I thjnk there is a good reason IMG are on payment only by results.......               We can wait and see what IMG do and how that may impact Rovers, until then Mr. Hudgell is a RL hero, who deserves all the credit...........

[Oxford]

10 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Nowt to do with IMG in my opinion

RL and RL clubs are largely reactive rather than proactive institutions and the changes made within their organisations will be portrayed in certain ways to sell certain ideas but you can be, more or less, certain that the clubs know more than has been revealed so far and will behave accordingly.

However, this won't take away from one fact no matter what...,

15 minutes ago, steve oates said:

until then Mr. Hudgell is a RL hero, who deserves all the credit...........

As do all the admin & owners of clubs.

[steve oates]

24 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I don’t think IMG are going to say that 8k is not good enough for top of sport when it is bang on the average of SL. Nor when Hull vs KR is one of the most marketable games. If IMG aren’t pushing international expansion NH then growth will surely come from  matching teams up in derby games. 

The original attempt at growth in which the game strived to keep certain clubs in SL no matter what was around 2010 when London, Celtic Crusaders and Catalans were excused from being relegated. How did that go?

Who needs geniuses like IMG when you easily put your finger on how to make the most of the game at a time when we know geographical expansion is pretty much dead. Hull.v.HKR. Wigan.v.Saints Castleford.v.Wakefield, Leeds.v.Bradford, work very well, as do Wire.v, Saints, Leigh.v.Wigan and Catalans.v. Everyone...... 

[Jughead]

Rhodri Jones appointed as the MD of Rugby League Commercial, worked for Super League for 4 years and The RFL for 12 before that. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Jughead said:

Rhodri Jones appointed as the MD of Rugby League Commercial, worked for Super League for 4 years and The RFL for 12 before that. 

Not exactly a new face, is he?

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

9 hours ago, Niels said:

Keighley are the only sports club in the town and have potential.

They are also a leader in minority rights and are trying to attract new fans to our game. Asian fans, the LGT community.

I think we should be positive and support them.

 

 

I generally am positive. But the Keighley club's leadership, and the poster in this conversation, want to blame the outside world for their position when the reality is it's not 1996 any more and we need to look forwards and move on. The pathway will exist for them to proceed, should they want to and merit it. And there'll be an existence and role worth having outside of Super League if not. Unless everyone wants to tell me that all the Queensland Cup clubs, their stakeholders and communities are a waste of time too? Having spent time in Mackay and Redcliffe myself, for example, I certainly wouldn't have the balls to. Both of those organisations are significantly more advanced than the Cougars, and one has now built that into a platform for elite comp membership through expansion of team numbers in the NRL. 

I'd never hold clubs back. But let's be honest, some clubs have wanted to hold the sport back - and have at times succeeded.

 

[steve oates]

18 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Toulouse vs Catalans on a weekend would be one of the biggest crowds of the year.

IMG  would be seeing medium term if we can pair someone with Cornwall or Newcastle or get hold of Millmoor to give Sheffield and Doncaster a team to hate in Rotherham. 

Thank you for the reply. Cornwall, Rotherham, Sheffield and Doncaster are not the future of the game. There is no interest there, never has been, never will be if you research it, or ask Hetherington.....Toulouse and Catalans crowds can be sold out but there would still be no French TV deal. Why Invent a future where our focus will be on what SKY subscribers certainly do not want to see, apart from the mighty Catalans....

[Oxford]

10 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I'd never hold clubs back. But let's be honest, some clubs have wanted to hold the sport back - and have at times succeeded.

This is not the case in my opinion it's one of those things that's banded about with uncommon and illogical regularity. No club ever had holding the sport back in mind or had it as one of it's goals.

Some imagine they're being held back and they would never contemplate the idea of restricting the sport.

The labels are very handy for this and clubs are the comfortable top would not dream of relinquishing anything that knocks them off the pedastal and so can blame those below. Clubs in the lower half can point to the distribution of funds that prevents them moving forward. Clubs in larger cities & towns can point to the smaller market of old mining towns as the reason the for a lack of progress.

A quick glance across any thread will see this kind of rubbish come up again and again.

 

 

[steve oates]

10 hours ago, Niels said:

Keighley are the only sports club in the town

So all the Keighley footy fans go to Elland Road and Valley Parade, and most of the Keighley RL fans pop over to Headingley or down to Odsal. Only was to stop that was "Cougarmania" which showed the potential, but potential can only be realised through constant investment.  

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

Rhodri Jones appointed as the MD of Rugby League Commercial, worked for Super League for 4 years and The RFL for 12 before that. 

So it's either 'job familiarity' or 'jobs for the boy's' that swayed the appointment then!

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Thank you for the reply. Cornwall, Rotherham, Sheffield and Doncaster are not the future of the game. There is no interest there, never has been, never will be if you research it, or ask Hetherington.....Toulouse and Catalans crowds can be sold out but there would still be no French TV deal. Why Invent a future where our focus will be on what SKY subscribers certainly do not want to see, apart from the mighty Catalans....

Sky isn't the future considering people are turning away from them. Young people don't want to pay it either and now they want to charge for skipping ads. Putting your premier event behind a paywall isn't a good idea.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So it's either 'job familiarity' or 'jobs for the boy's' that swayed the appointment then!

Any evidence for that?

[ELBOWSEYE]

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a shame that despite all this money and progress the MLS/A-League cannot produce one player who would get in the England side. Not really a zinger of a comment is it?

Fwiw, when was the last time a British RL player would have been envied by the Australians, and when was the last before him. 30 years ago? 40?

Sam burgess, Adrian Morley would have walked into any side, SOL would have been an Aussie regular. 

[steve oates]

Apparently IMG have been "working behind the scenes"  to find "significant financial growth"....

Their primary aim according to Mr. Sadler is to "reverse the significant decline" in SKY funding.

He asks what leverage do IMG have, to get more money out of SKY..........Anyone???

 

[Dovster]

39 minutes ago, steve oates said:

So all the Keighley footy fans go to Elland Road and Valley Parade, and most of the Keighley RL fans pop over to Headingley or down to Odsal. Only was to stop that was "Cougarmania" which showed the potential, but potential can only be realised through constant investment.  

Actually most of the Keighley RL fans have been lost to the game. Althugh the current board are re-engaging with them.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

Rhodri Jones appointed as the MD of Rugby League Commercial, worked for Super League for 4 years and The RFL for 12 before that. 

Not exactly what I was hoping for, I've zero idea why we keep letting people fail upwards like this

[Oxford]

There's alot of unfair responses on here at times, unnecessarily full of rebuke and dismissal.

 

 

 

 

 

[Angelic Cynic]

21 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

When Hudgell took over at Hull KR he had a small legal practice with a shop on Holderness Road, he wasn’t that wealthy. What he did have though was good sense, and a latent support base from decades of Rovers being a top-level club.

Not all clubs have that, it’s time to be realistic. Keighley had 100 years to build a successful club in an era of part-time players when they could have been competitive, they didn’t manage it. The idea that the reason they can’t do it now is some cartel that excludes them is for the birds.

The A-standard requirements will be published next season, so people will know where the line is. But in the real world small-market clubs should set more realistic goals, and build themselves for other reasons. Just as they do in League down under, or in other sports like Baseball in the States where entry to the major leagues is through a broader set of factors than just one season’s results on the pitch. There is a positive role for community, semi-pro clubs if they focus on that rather than have pipe dreams about a future stature they’ve never had in the 12 prior decades and are genuinely not capable of sustaining now. 

Your first paragraph sums it all up. (Decades of being a top level club).

This gets people through the turnstiles and keeps them there.

Hudgell has continually complained about the sport and made numerous attempts to offload his club.

Having a 70yrs old join the board doesn't really send a message of a forward thinking club,or a sport.

Leigh,when Centurions,nearly went out of business when a wealthy benefactor Arthur Thomas took ill/died.

Widnes,former World Champions,had more recent problems,when Steve O'Connor left.

Bradford Bulls,former World Champions,had repeated financial troubles.

It is all very short- termism,and very few of these wonderfully wealthy individuals seem to be able to find other individuals who share the same interests in the sport of rugby league who are able to carry on the success, and leave a lasting legacy,once they decide to leave.

Today comes the news of the finances of Wigan Warriors. Should that be something clubs outside of the elite,Category A clubs should aspire?

Despite your assertions I am not club-centric.I have followed the sport since the 1980's.A long term future with signs,nay,plans,for improvement,would be welcome.

Followers of Super League clubs telling me everything in the garden is rosy doesn't wash.

The same old,same old,appointments,doesn't wash.

A long term plan would be good.An ever shrinking,dependent on wealthy,middle aged white males,short termism,is not a recipe for success.

It may end up like Speedway.

If it is all about money those males in Arabia seem contactable...They must be good,they have money. 

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

39 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Your first paragraph sums it all up. (Decades of being a top level club).

This gets people through the turnstiles and keeps them there.

Hudgell has continually complained about the sport and made numerous attempts to offload his club.

Having a 70yrs old join the board doesn't really send a message of a forward thinking club,or a sport.

Leigh,when Centurions,nearly went out of business when a wealthy benefactor Arthur Thomas took ill/died.

Widnes,former World Champions,had more recent problems,when Steve O'Connor left.

Bradford Bulls,former World Champions,had repeated financial troubles.

It is all very short- termism,and very few of these wonderfully wealthy individuals seem to be able to find other individuals who share the same interests in the sport of rugby league who are able to carry on the success, and leave a lasting legacy,once they decide to leave.

Today comes the news of the finances of Wigan Warriors. Should that be something clubs outside of the elite,Category A clubs should aspire?

Despite your assertions I am not club-centric.I have followed the sport since the 1980's.A long term future with signs,nay,plans,for improvement,would be welcome.

Followers of Super League clubs telling me everything in the garden is rosy doesn't wash.

The same old,same old,appointments,doesn't wash.

A long term plan would be good.An ever shrinking,dependent on wealthy,middle aged white males,short termism,is not a recipe for success.

It may end up like Speedway.

If it is all about money those males in Arabia seem contactable...They must be good,they have money. 

 

 

The IMG strategy is the first sign of a long-term plan backed by demonstrably competent people since 1996, so I'm leaning into it. Your twaddle about Hudgell washes straight over me. 

I'm yet to get any sense of what your alternative vision is. Presumably because there isn't one

 

[Niels]

2 hours ago, steve oates said:

So all the Keighley footy fans go to Elland Road and Valley Parade, and most of the Keighley RL fans pop over to Headingley or down to Odsal. Only was to stop that was "Cougarmania" which showed the potential, but potential can only be realised through constant investment.  

I agree with your previous points about the Derbies being productive.

When I lived near Keighley it was towards the end of Cougarmania. The backing of the team stopped and the best players left. 

Burnley were the most popular soccer side. I don't think many fans left to follow Leeds or Bradford. They just became lost to the game.