37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

And, of course, that should include internationals. The trick is to get more people enthusiastic about the prospects of watching RL, live, on TV, streamed, whatever. If the "product" becomes recognisable and attractive there would be enhanced positive perception which might even create a true example of trickle-down: people being more interested in experiencing a live match, wherever.

Spot on apart from " ... a true example of trickle down .." there is no such animal BSJ. The rest though is what should happen though I have doubts it will.

 

[Wakefield Ram]

13 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

No, it really isn’t. It’s the entire top tier. The one we can wrap up into a product, and sell to broadcasters, or people directly online. All clubs in the top tier contribute to the creation of that product, whatever their eventual league position or other grading.

It really isn’t that complicated. Unless you wilfully make it so for clicks and giggles of course… 

SL is the top tier of the pyramid. Many outside SL contribute through DR, junior coaching, club officials... without all these people, SKL would be far weaker. But wave a bit of money and it's easily forgotten. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

16 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

SL is the top tier of the pyramid. Many outside SL contribute through DR, junior coaching, club officials... without all these people, SKL would be far weaker. But wave a bit of money and it's easily forgotten. 

All of that is true, and the sport can choose to distribute funds down the pyramid as it sees fit in order to support that.

None of that changes the reality that I have said, which is this: IMG's singular role is to package, develop and promote the top tier in order to generate the most revenue from it that we possibly can. As a result, there will be more money to distribute. In what way is that saying that the lower tiers can be easily forgotten? The priority is to grow the size of the cake, not argue about how we share a smaller one. 10% of a £40m TV deal is worth more than 15% of a £25m deal, and so on and so on. 

Also, as been said elsewhere, who said that Championship and League 1 clubs - who have their own ways of generating revenues - are the entirety of the wider game anyway? The community game is much, much more than those semi-pro clubs. 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

23 hours ago, POR said:

 Maybe H but  C%s away in 97 runs it close. 

 

big fan of the "Tiger Rectal Suppository Check " jersey

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

 

I missed this the other day myself, interesting interview with Paul Sewell Rovers' new Chairman on IMG, the future, etc., thought it might have wider interest than just for "us lot"... 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0dtn7j6

Few things

- Clearly states IMG and the growth vision was key tipping point for him

- Doesn't just see it as being about Rovers, he's a football fan not a KR fan in particular anyway, its vital that all clubs succeed in developing their business model so that the whole competition improves and everyone benefits

- Uses the rising tide lifts all boats analogy that I know @GUBRATS is a fan of 

 

[Angelic Cynic]

17 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Do you have any facts to back up these assertions?

Not to hand.

15 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Of course IMG are SuperLeague centric. Their role is to build the value of SuperLeague, or at least whatever our elite competition is or becomes in the future. That’s it, end of. What the sport does any increased value in the future is down to the sport. 

Re: football, it is always sunny in our memories isn’t it? I’ve always loved football, then and now. But I know that crowds were smaller, because people measured them. I know there was more football violence, because I experienced it. I know less women and people from ethnic minorities were engaged with the game, and that girls barely played it. I know that England were poorer, I followed them home and away. I know youth facilities were worse, as I played in them, and my four kids all play in what we have now. Of course some things could still be better, but even without referencing Bradford, Hysel or Hillsborough I have already given you a ton of data points on why on balance the Premier League - and similarly the Champions League - have transformed the sport for the better.

My dream is that something similar, on a smaller scale, is possible with my favourite sport. That’s what excites me about this era.

 

It seems many soccer fans are the post 1990's followers who only know the sport since Sky and all-seater stadia came along.

If anyone did the same with rugby league,and contrasted and compared with another period of time the result will probably be similar.

If the Licensing Era imagined by the 2 white males,Lewis and Findlay,neither of whom are now involved in the sport, was asked,say,of Widnes followers,they may be quite pleased to have had their club promoted and had a thriving Academy. This period may not be so good.

Bradford fans may have enjoyed the period prior to Licensing.

It is as unfair as judging soccer players when they played on mudheaps,against judging them now,playing on snooker table flat surfaces.

I suppose different rugby league fans want different things.

The questionnaire from IMG - Did it mention boardrooms? Is the hardworking egocentric multi-millionaire entrepreneur not as highly considered as a small group of millionaires from different industries?

Do Salford board members have less consideration as they are small in number and don't work in profit-making industries as those board members at other clubs?

I don't know because IMG haven't gone public - yet 37 of the 42 clubs have backed them.

I don't think 37 clubs have that many board members.

Should rugby league clubs be asking soccer and rugby union clubs if they can spare some board members? 

Should they be asking why,if soccer can ' improve in recent decades,we should emulate them?'

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

7 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Not to hand.

It seems many soccer fans are the post 1990's followers who only know the sport since Sky and all-seater stadia came along.

If anyone did the same with rugby league,and contrasted and compared with another period of time the result will probably be similar.

If the Licensing Era imagined by the 2 white males,Lewis and Findlay,neither of whom are now involved in the sport, was asked,say,of Widnes followers,they may be quite pleased to have had their club promoted and had a thriving Academy. This period may not be so good.

Bradford fans may have enjoyed the period prior to Licensing.

It is as unfair as judging soccer players when they played on mudheaps,against judging them now,playing on snooker table flat surfaces.

I suppose different rugby league fans want different things.

The questionnaire from IMG - Did it mention boardrooms? Is the hardworking egocentric multi-millionaire entrepreneur not as highly considered as a small group of millionaires from different industries?

Do Salford board members have less consideration as they are small in number and don't work in profit-making industries as those board members at other clubs?

I don't know because IMG haven't gone public - yet 37 of the 42 clubs have backed them.

I don't think 37 clubs have that many board members.

Should rugby league clubs be asking soccer and rugby union clubs if they can spare some board members? 

Should they be asking why,if soccer can ' improve in recent decades,we should emulate them?'

Literally no idea what you're banging on about now. One of the objectives is to attract new, outside investment though, yes. I'll be delighted every time I see that happen, whatever the club.

Onwards and upwards. 

 

 

[Oxford]

38 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Do Salford board members have less consideration as they are small in number and don't work in profit-making industries as those board members at other clubs?

No they deserve more consideration everytime! This is an undeniable fact.

40 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Should rugby league clubs be asking soccer and rugby union clubs if they can spare some board members? 

No because neither would have our interests at heart ( if unsure on this issue please read the cross code nonsense all about another sport?

Also the debt crises in both sports are hardly living testament of recommendation. I'm certain RL has it's own people who could get us into loads of debt without too much effort.

42 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

I suppose different rugby league fans want different things.

Depending on what the count is, say 365 for example, that would make approximately 365 different ambitions with a few bits of overlap that excite posters on social media.

49 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Should they be asking why,if soccer can ' improve in recent decades,we should emulate them?'

Well it's not proven Football has improved though alot of people do subscribe to the idea.

[super major]

17 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Yes, you are a cynical person. There’s nothing I can do about that so we can just move on eh. I’m optimistic, it’s why I’m an entrepreneur myself and why I value the contribution of these ones to my club. 

Yes, I agree with a lot of what you say. I also am an entrepreneur and thats why I am cynical, also been a league fan for too many years not to be so. I am also hoping desperately that IMG can progress the game because I genuinely fear the future if this doesn't work. My argument is not with you so much as with posters and local reporters who now assume the good work at craven park is done and rovers will just become the most successful team in england

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

45 minutes ago, super major said:

Yes, I agree with a lot of what you say. I also am an entrepreneur and thats why I am cynical, also been a league fan for too many years not to be so. I am also hoping desperately that IMG can progress the game because I genuinely fear the future if this doesn't work. My argument is not with you so much as with posters and local reporters who now assume the good work at craven park is done and rovers will just become the most successful team in england

I agree nowt’s guaranteed. Jeez, Rovers could even get relegated this year; new coach who’s never led a team before, it’s all possible eh. Performance uncertainly is why we love sport!

[GUBRATS]

A rising tide lifts all boats 

Then dumps all the ones with nowhere to go in the sludge again 

New analogy 

[Roughyed Rats]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

A rising tide lifts all boats 

As long as the water is distributed equally

[Bostik Bailey]

16 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

As long as the water is distributed equally

Physics not your strong point

[Harry Stottle]

21 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I agree nowt’s guaranteed. Jeez, Rovers could even get relegated this year; new coach who’s never led a team before, it’s all possible eh. Performance uncertainly is why we love sport!

And that is precisely why we should never get rid of performance related Promotion and Relegation, I see absolutely no sense whatsoever in having a number of games for a number of clubs in which the result has no meaning.

[Roughyed Rats]

18 minutes ago, Bostik Bailey said:

Physics not your strong point

It's clearly not yours 

 

http://snowbrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/32791-sea-and-beach-big-wave.jpg

[Fevrover]

17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And that is precisely why we should never get rid of performance related Promotion and Relegation, I see absolutely no sense whatsoever in having a number of games for a number of clubs in which the result has no meaning.

We've got that now when certain teams put out woefully poor teams towards the end of  the  season.

[Blind side johnny]

3 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Not to hand.

It seems many soccer fans are the post 1990's followers who only know the sport since Sky and all-seater stadia came along.

If anyone did the same with rugby league,and contrasted and compared with another period of time the result will probably be similar.

If the Licensing Era imagined by the 2 white males,Lewis and Findlay,neither of whom are now involved in the sport, was asked,say,of Widnes followers,they may be quite pleased to have had their club promoted and had a thriving Academy. This period may not be so good.

Bradford fans may have enjoyed the period prior to Licensing.

It is as unfair as judging soccer players when they played on mudheaps,against judging them now,playing on snooker table flat surfaces.

I suppose different rugby league fans want different things.

The questionnaire from IMG - Did it mention boardrooms? Is the hardworking egocentric multi-millionaire entrepreneur not as highly considered as a small group of millionaires from different industries?

Do Salford board members have less consideration as they are small in number and don't work in profit-making industries as those board members at other clubs?

I don't know because IMG haven't gone public - yet 37 of the 42 clubs have backed them.

I don't think 37 clubs have that many board members.

Should rugby league clubs be asking soccer and rugby union clubs if they can spare some board members? 

Should they be asking why,if soccer can ' improve in recent decades,we should emulate them?'

I genuinely don't know what you are talking about here.

You clearly have a fixed idea of IMG's role which is far away from reality - maybe you should take a look at the original press releases which laid out their remit, and how they would benefit, or not, from it.

[Blind side johnny]

30 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And that is precisely why we should never get rid of performance related Promotion and Relegation, I see absolutely no sense whatsoever in having a number of games for a number of clubs in which the result has no meaning.

Agree. Related but not determined.

[Saint Toppy]

49 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And that is precisely why we should never get rid of performance related Promotion and Relegation, I see absolutely no sense whatsoever in having a number of games for a number of clubs in which the result has no meaning.

Have you not been paying attention, performance related P&R is staying at least in the short term, the only difference being is the performance is based on more than just 'on field' results. A cubs grade of license will be based on both on-field and off-field performance.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

48 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And that is precisely why we should never get rid of performance related Promotion and Relegation, I see absolutely no sense whatsoever in having a number of games for a number of clubs in which the result has no meaning.

You can finish 12th, without needing to be relegated. Results still have meaning. Finishing 12th is still a performance outcome, faced with which a fortnight away from the season's end I'd still prefer to finish 11th. You don't need the fear of almost total business destruction to drive enough uncertainty into a sporting event to make it exiting.

If it didn't already exist, no sane person would invent it. Imagine a sports consultant coming along and saying, "hey, how about this great idea to make the last few matches more exciting... the possible total destruction of one of your competition participants costing millions and meaning loads of people lose their jobs!!" 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

A rising tide lifts all boats 

Then dumps all the ones with nowhere to go in the sludge again 

New analogy 

I've got a new one for you @GUBRATS: Schrodinger's Boat.

If a rising tide sinks some boats when it turns out they already had massive holes in them that to-date hadn't mattered, were they ever really boats in the first place?  

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Have you not been paying attention, performance related P&R is staying at least in the short term, the only difference being is the performance is based on more than just 'on field' results. A cubs grade of license will be based on both on-field and off-field performance.

Yes we had similar last time , so how do you equally grade on field performance between a SL club and a Championship or L1 club ? , Similar with attendances and income ? 

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I've got a new one for you @GUBRATS: Schrodinger's Boat.

If a rising tide sinks some boats when it turns out they already had massive holes in them that to-date hadn't mattered, were they ever really boats in the first place?  

I didn't say it sunk them , just dumps them back in the  S***

Edited January 9, 2023 by GUBRATS

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

You can finish 12th, without needing to be relegated. Results still have meaning. Finishing 12th is still a performance outcome, faced with which a fortnight away from the season's end I'd still prefer to finish 11th. You don't need the fear of almost total business destruction to drive enough uncertainty into a sporting event to make it exiting.

If it didn't already exist, no sane person would invent it. Imagine a sports consultant coming along and saying, "hey, how about this great idea to make the last few matches more exciting... the possible total destruction of one of your competition participants costing millions and meaning loads of people lose their jobs!!" 

And no sane person would invent a system where you finish higher than somebody else but still get relegated , potentially because the other team had a few years ago a sympathetic council ?

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

I didn't say it sunk them , just dumps them back in the  

Yup. Mine's a new one. I quite like it. It encapsulates neatly one of the things that has been holding back rugby league's strategic planning for years: The idea that a long list of clubs outside SuperLeague are genuinely potential alternative, sustainable elite league teams. We've not let the tide rise so as not to sink some boats. But they were never really boats anyway!