Forward passes

[Wakefield Ram]

It seems refs and TJs  aren't able to spot even the most blatant forward passes. Yesterday's joke pass was Bateman to Young, at least he threw it quarterback style. 

Yesterday's didn't matter in terms of the result, but can you imagine if that was the match winner in the final? 

We need to start including forward passes in video ref decisions. The idea you can't see a forward pass on TV just makes no sense at all. They use it in RU, we need to start in RL.  

[Harry Stottle]

23 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

It seems refs and TJs  aren't able to spot even the most blatant forward passes. Yesterday's joke pass was Bateman to Young, at least he threw it quarterback style. 

Yesterday's didn't matter in terms of the result, but can you imagine if that was the match winner in the final? 

We need to start including forward passes in video ref decisions. The idea you can't see a forward pass on TV just makes no sense at all. They use it in RU, we need to start in RL.  

And if it becomes part of the Captains Challenge the games could last a very long time, there are many many times that player's very close to the action question the ref over the legality of a pass, it would get quite interesting.

[DavidM]

No

[unapologetic pedant]

RU people don`t obsess over possible forward passes. They have a different idea of what constitutes a forward pass and how important or otherwise it is to identify them. Hence, they can afford to include that option for VR decisions knowing it won`t often be used. In contrast, League officials know their audience. They know it would cause chaos.

Watch any Union match and you`ll see passes which in League would either be called forward, trigger the crowd to shout "Forward", commentators to imply it was forward, or RL forum contributors to insist it was a mile forward. In Union, nobody bats an eyelid.

My advice would be to read the rulebook, have a long think, and chill out.

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, Wakefield Ram said:

It seems refs and TJs  aren't able to spot even the most blatant forward passes. Yesterday's joke pass was Bateman to Young, at least he threw it quarterback style. 

Yesterday's didn't matter in terms of the result, but can you imagine if that was the match winner in the final? 

We need to start including forward passes in video ref decisions. The idea you can't see a forward pass on TV just makes no sense at all. They use it in RU, we need to start in RL.  

And most people don't understand the rules regarding forward passes! I wouldn't say there has been many forward passes not given in this world cup at all. 

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Wakefield Ram said:

It seems refs and TJs  aren't able to spot even the most blatant forward passes. Yesterday's joke pass was Bateman to Young, at least he threw it quarterback style. 

Yesterday's didn't matter in terms of the result, but can you imagine if that was the match winner in the final? 

We need to start including forward passes in video ref decisions. The idea you can't see a forward pass on TV just makes no sense at all. They use it in RU, we need to start in RL.  

We need less interference from the video ref in the game, not more.

[DavidM]

21 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

We need less interference from the video ref in the game, not more.

And again it’s the perspective that video technology will show everything clearly , the video ref will get it right and there’ll be an end to controversy . Even now on replay commentators argue about forward passes 

[Harry Stottle]

36 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

RU people don`t obsess over possible forward passes. They have a different idea of what constitutes a forward pass and how important or otherwise it is to identify them. Hence, they can afford to include that option for VR decisions knowing it won`t often be used. In contrast, League officials know their audience. They know it would cause chaos.

Watch any Union match and you`ll see passes which in League would either be called forward, trigger the crowd to shout "Forward", commentators to imply it was forward, or RL forum contributors to insist it was a mile forward. In Union, nobody bats an eyelid.

My advice would be to read the rulebook, have a long think, and chill out.

Aye but in union it goes back to the day's when there was very little passing of the ball - hence the name "Kick and Clap" - had they not been so liberal with the actual law there would have been very few tries scored.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, DavidM said:

And again it’s the perspective that video technology will show everything clearly , the video ref will get it right and there’ll be an end to controversy . Even now on replay commentators argue about forward passes 

As I was watching the video ref seeing James Tedesco's clear knock on in the Italian captains challenge yesterday and still manage to inexplicably get it wrong, I thought there would be absolutely no doubt the video ref would get every forward pass decision spot on.

[unapologetic pedant]

40 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Aye but in union it goes back to the day's when there was very little passing of the ball - hence the name "Kick and Clap" - had they not been so liberal with the actual law there would have been very few tries scored.

That thought would be in my mind too watching Union in the 80s/90s. When Union fans fortuitously saw a passing move needle in a Rob Andrew up-and-under haystack, they would hardly want to see it rubbed out or a question mark put over it.

I remain convinced there`s far more to it than that though. When attitudes to the same thing are so contrasting, there has to be a cultural explanation.

[Wakefield Ram]

Well it seems no one is bothered about forward passes. So why bother with knock ons or incorrect grounding?

[bobbruce]

4 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Well it seems no one is bothered about forward passes. So why bother with knock ons or incorrect grounding?

No one’s bothered because there aernt that many missed. 

[JohnM]

I have finely tuned forward pass detection antennae, honed to perfection by watching St Helens get away with it for years. In addition,  though it's a bit rusty after having left college more than half a century ago, I have some knowledge of quantum theory, multi-dimentional non-Euclidean solid geometry and NURBS. Despite - or perhaps because of - all of that, I can confirm that almost all passes that appear forward but not called by officials, are in fact not forward.

[yipyee]

11 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Well it seems no one is bothered about forward passes. So why bother with knock ons or incorrect grounding?

Half the knock ons are not even knock ons.

The England one last week where it hit his shoulder and bounced behind to an England player was never a knock on.

It seems now if you drop a ball its a knock on. Is it not still OK to drop it backwards?!

[StandOffHalf]

19 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

RU people don`t obsess over possible forward passes. They have a different idea of what constitutes a forward pass and how important or otherwise it is to identify them. Hence, they can afford to include that option for VR decisions knowing it won`t often be used. In contrast, League officials know their audience. They know it would cause chaos.

Watch any Union match and you`ll see passes which in League would either be called forward, trigger the crowd to shout "Forward", commentators to imply it was forward, or RL forum contributors to insist it was a mile forward. In Union, nobody bats an eyelid.

My advice would be to read the rulebook, have a long think, and chill out.

There are way more forward passes in RL! The standard of long passing in RU is generally much better.

What do you mean when you say that RU ''have a different idea of what constitutes a forward pass...''? Forward momentum and flatness out of the hand applies in both codes, no?

[RayCee]

A flat pass isn't a forward pass. How it leaves the hands is a good indicator but realistically it will never be judged perfectly. TV angles can create a wrong impression too.

One thing I'd like to see is the receiver staying behind the person passing. Getting up flat increases the chance of a forward pass. 

[Damien]

3 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

There are way more forward passes in RL! The standard of long passing in RU is generally much better.

What do you mean when you say that RU ''have a different idea of what constitutes a forward pass...''? Forward momentum and flatness out of the hand applies in both codes, no?

I dont agree with this and it is comparing apples and pears. In my experience the standard of passing in Union is fairly terrible and there is an obsession with a spin pass for the shortest of distances. Passing in Union can look fine when largely 2 or 3 players fire out long passes from what is usually a very static, set position. That really isn't difficult to do.

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

What do you mean when you say that RU ''have a different idea of what constitutes a forward pass...''? Forward momentum and flatness out of the hand applies in both codes, no?

I mean precisely what I said. The rules are the same in both codes, yet a League fan can see a pass and instinctively yell "Forward" while a Union fan will see the self-same pass and think it`s fine. The communal reactions we grow up with and get used to influence how we see things.

Funny how there are never any threads on this forum about forward passes wrongly called. Even though those errors militate against the interests of the game far more than forward passes which are missed. As graphically demonstrated by the call-on-suspicion knock-on fever mentioned by @yipyee that`s swept through the game in the past 20 years.

Rugby League exists to be played and enjoyed, watched and enjoyed. Whether it`s forward passes, knock-ons, obstructions, the default should always be "Play On". 

If, on the other hand, our mission is to ensure no forward passes, knock-ons, obstructions are ever missed, there`s an obvious sure-fire solution - Stop playing Rugby League games.

[StandOffHalf]

5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I mean precisely what I said. The rules are the same in both codes, yet a League fan can see a pass and instinctively yell "Forward" while a Union fan will see the self-same pass and think it`s fine. The communal reactions we grow up with and get used to influence how we see things.

Funny how there are never any threads on this forum about forward passes wrongly called. Even though those errors militate against the interests of the game far more than forward passes which are missed. As graphically demonstrated by the call-on-suspicion knock-on fever mentioned by @yipyee that`s swept through the game in the past 20 years.

Rugby League exists to be played and enjoyed, watched and enjoyed. Whether it`s forward passes, knock-ons, obstructions, the default should always be "Play On". 

If, on the other hand, our mission is to ensure no forward passes, knock-ons, obstructions are ever missed, there`s an obvious sure-fire solution - Stop playing Rugby League games.

I watch both sports and react to forward passes the same.

I'd rather that questionable passes are let go. I remember a Tom Trbojevic pass to Garrick being called back wrongly a while ago. Alot of dubious passes are fine.

[StandOffHalf]

8 hours ago, Damien said:

I dont agree with this and it is comparing apples and pears. In my experience the standard of passing in Union is fairly terrible and there is an obsession with a spin pass for the shortest of distances. Passing in Union can look fine when largely 2 or 3 players fire out long passes from what is usually a very static, set position. That really isn't difficult to do.

Your point about static passing positions is fair. Roby, for example, is an incredible passer from dummy half. I think in open play the standard of passing in RU is crisper and cleaner. It's obviously true that RL is a tougher and more unforgiving game spatially. I think RL passing is better than it used to be. 

[Futtocks]

The first filter to apply is when you see someone complaining about only one of the teams getting away with forward passes. That's usually a rage-fuelled confusion between reality and wishful thinking.

This gives you more time to genuinely examine the remaining small number of questionable tries, many of which turn out to be flat or actually backwards.

[OriginalMrC]

8 hours ago, Damien said:

I dont agree with this and it is comparing apples and pears. In my experience the standard of passing in Union is fairly terrible and there is an obsession with a spin pass for the shortest of distances. Passing in Union can look fine when largely 2 or 3 players fire out long passes from what is usually a very static, set position. That really isn't difficult to do.

Agree 100%. The range of different types of passes in RL is far superior. End over end passing is rarely used in RU despite it being the safest and most effective in many situations. Timing of pass is also far more superior in RL. 

Anyway don't want to drag this into cross code forum territory but think it may be an important factor. The regular occurance of well timed flat passes in RL could be a factor in the number of shouts of 'forward' 

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Your point about static passing positions is fair. Roby, for example, is an incredible passer from dummy half. I think in open play the standard of passing in RU is crisper and cleaner. It's obviously true that RL is a tougher and more unforgiving game spatially. I think RL passing is better than it used to be. 

I’ll have a pint or 3 of  whatever you are drinking. The standard of passing in RU, at the highest levels, is awful whether in open play or from a set piece 

[DavidM]

Just now, LeeF said:

I’ll have a pint or 3 of  whatever you are drinking. The standard of passing in RU, at the highest levels, is awful whether in open play or from a set piece 

Last time i watched ( not lately ) it was a thing that struck me , and if I remember even Stuart Barnes mentioned it in the match . Pass at feet … pass at head height … loopy pass … pass behind someone … pass on floor … pass hitting someone in the face 

[N2022]

The lazy 10-15-yard pass that goes 3 or 4 yards forward off a slowish run is not hard to pick up. Trickier to spot but more infuriating when playing as a defender is the flipped forward 3-4-yard pass to someone in the channel next to the tackle. Had I tackled you before you had the ball I would have been penalised, but you didn't have it until it was passed forward for you beyond the line. Actually, I wouldn't mind it being on the captain's challenge - eventually some players might get bored of the delays and say let's not just pass it forward.