England starting 17 for next week - Who would you pick?

[SalfordSlim]

36 minutes ago, usain bolt said:

I think wane will go

1 Tomkins 

2 Makinson 3 Watkins 4 Farnworth 5 Young 

6 Welsby 7 Williams 

8 Hill 9 Mcillorum 10 Burgess 

11 Whitehead 12 Bateman 

13 Radley 

14 Lees 15 Knowles 16 Thompson 17 Cooper 

18 Ackers 19 Mcmeeken 

 

Agreed. Wouldn't be my choice but then I'm not the England coach so pretty irrelevant.

[SUPERSTUD]

40 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

2 issues for me..... Tomkins & Mcllorum.

I'm not happy with MM being in that 17 for the reason that "he can tackle". He offers feck all else and Ackers is defensively sound enough to not miss his presence in the squad and his distribution/ running threat/kicking is light years ahead of MM's. But doubt Wane will pick him.

And whilst I appreciate Sneyd's defence isn't his strong point, what is Tomkins exactly offering these days? Great player in his time but lost most of his pace and his attacking threat nowhere near what it was. 

It'll be same starting spine as against Samoa though so Sneyd will miss out and Ackers will make the bench at best, although more likely not be in the squad if Wane goes for 4 big guys.

I feel the same in relation to Tomkins. However Wane adores him along with John Bateman and Micky Mac. Welsby could obviously do the job at full back but at the moment I do agree that the team is more balanced with Tomkins at full back and Welsby in the half back role.

[Barry Badrinath]

surprised at how many people opting for oledzki, he looked pretty lead footed last week, out of all the props that have played he (for me) has been the one that i'd rank last,  difficult to seperate all the others.

[JDR]

28 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

surprised at how many people opting for oledzki, he looked pretty lead footed last week, out of all the props that have played he (for me) has been the one that i'd rank last,  difficult to seperate all the others.

His work rate and fitness for me, he's also developed a good little pass before contact. But ANY of the props on form could start or make the bench with no detriment to the side, so it's all pretty tricky.  
And that's why I'm not a Coach.

[Barry Badrinath]

1 minute ago, JDR said:

His work rate and fitness for me, he's also developed a good little pass before contact. But ANY of the props on form could start or make the bench with no detriment to the side, so it's all pretty tricky.  
And that's why I'm not a Coach.

i like him, i dont mind him at SL level, but it was really noticeable how he got caught flat footed, same with lees he got bounced around a lot in the samoa game when he first came on, then fronted up after that.

[JDR]

6 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

i like him, i dont mind him at SL level, but it was really noticeable how he got caught flat footed, same with lees he got bounced around a lot in the samoa game when he first came on, then fronted up after that.

It's a fair point. No disrepect to the lad who plays in a tough position at a level I can't even imagine - but I think he's worked extremely hard to get to where he is, but not really a 'natural' and occasionally it shows.

[Dunbar]

50 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

surprised at how many people opting for oledzki, he looked pretty lead footed last week, out of all the props that have played he (for me) has been the one that i'd rank last,  difficult to seperate all the others.

I am a self confessed Oledzki fan and one thing that I think he brings to the table is defence.  Due to his size, Tom Burgess can be targeted around the ruck by smaller, faster men while both Lees and Thompson are not great in defensive contact - the former just misses too many tackles for me.

Oledzki on the other hand is a very mobile and reliable defender for a big man and I think we need that as the games get tighter.

I would have Burgess, Hill, Thompson and Oledzki as my big middles and Radley and Knowles as the more mobile / ball playing options.  All 6 would be in my 17.

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, Barry Badrinath said:

surprised at how many people opting for oledzki, he looked pretty lead footed last week, out of all the props that have played he (for me) has been the one that i'd rank last,  difficult to seperate all the others.

Agree on that. 

I got shot down before the tournament started for saying Hill should play as he's been around the block and won't be bullied by the big islanders but he has been great so far - best out of the big lads alongside Burgess.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I am a self confessed Oledzki fan and one thing that I think he brings to the table is defence.  Due to his size, Tom Burgess can be targeted around the ruck by smaller, faster men while both Lees and Thompson are not great in defensive contact - the former just misses too many tackles for me.

Oledzki on the other hand is a very mobile and reliable defender for a big man and I think we need that as the games get tighter.

I would have Burgess, Hill, Thompson and Oledzki as my big middles and Radley and Knowles as the more mobile / ball playing options.  All 6 would be in my 17.

I'd go with that, it's a good mix but can see him picking Cooper over Oledski.

[WN83]

Chris Hill has been outstanding so far. That move to Huddersfield really seems to have given him a new lease of life and he’s played as well in this tournament as he was doing when he was being raved about in his first couple of seasons at Wire. 
 

I wouldn’t pick Oledzki based simply on that first game and performances since and I think others have done more to hold a place. I was a bit surprised with how skinny Oledzki looks now. He’s clearly worked extremely hard on his fitness and is feeling the benefit at club level but I thought the old version, were he was a bit bulkier might’ve served him better at international level. He’s not going to get 60-70 minutes for England, like he might get at Leeds and he’ll need to make a bit more of an impact t in a shorter spell on the field. 

[SalfordSlim]

35 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Agree on that. 

I got shot down before the tournament started for saying Hill should play as he's been around the block and won't be bullied by the big islanders but he has been great so far - best out of the big lads alongside Burgess.

Hate to say it (as Hill winds me up in SL!) but I'm with you here. He's been excellent so far.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I would go with 16/17 of the Newcastle team with Bateman for Lees. They looked so good, and the balance in the side is so grooved because they can all play up tempo Wane ball (with Radley as Lockers) in their sleep. Under pressure, that familiarity with the structure is a huge advantage for us. 

[GeordieSaint]

3 hours ago, Barry Badrinath said:

surprised at how many people opting for oledzki, he looked pretty lead footed last week, out of all the props that have played he (for me) has been the one that i'd rank last,  difficult to seperate all the others.

I wouldn’t pick Oldezki either. The first 5mins of the GF planeted that seed with me when Lomax waltzed passed for the opening Lees try.

Only three changes from the Samoa game - Bateman for McMeeken and probably Ackers for Lees. I’d start Thompson with Burgess on the bench - thought we lost a bit of intensity and punch when both Hill and Burgess rotated with Cooper and Thompson in Newcastle.

1. Tomkins 2. Young 3. Watkins 4. Farnworth 5. Makinson 6. Welsby 7. Williams 

8. Hill 9. McIllorum 10. Thompson 11. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Radley 

Subs: 14. Cooper 15. Burgess 16. Knowles 17. Ackers

[Dunbar]

10 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I wouldn’t pick Oldezki either. The first 5mins of the GF planeted that seed with me when Lomax waltzed passed for the opening Lees try.

Only three changes from the Samoa game - Bateman for McMeeken and probably Ackers for Lees. I’d start Thompson with Burgess on the bench - thought we lost a bit of intensity and punch when both Hill and Burgess rotated with Cooper and Thompson in Newcastle.

1. Tomkins 2. Young 3. Watkins 4. Farnworth 5. Makinson 6. Welsby 7. Williams 

8. Hill 9. McIllorum 10. Thompson 11. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Radley 

Subs: 14. Cooper 15. Burgess 16. Knowles 17. Ackers

Think it is a bit harsh to pin that try on Oledksi.  Lomax was first man from a wide dummy half pass from Roby (the kind of pass he throws so well).  Matt Prior was the A defender and he simply didn't push up hard enough on Lomax and left the gap on the inside of Oledzki.  Based on the structure of the attack and defence on that try, I would have Prior at fault.

[roughyed8]

7 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Id be amazed if Oledski played, don't think Wane rates him for some reason - wasn't he named in the squad for Saturday but not played?

 

I would go

1, Tomkins

2. Makinson

3. Farnworth

4. Watkins

5. Young

6. Welsby

7. Williams

8. Oledski

9. Mcllorum

10. Hill/Thompson

11. Whitehead

12. Bateman

13. Radley

 

14. Knowles

15. Burgess

16. Hill/Thompson

17. Ackers

Isn't he under a disciplinary cloud for his cannonball tackle?

Edited October 31, 2022 by roughyed8
Spelling

[Dunbar]

44 minutes ago, roughyed8 said:

Isn't he under a disciplinary cloud for his cannonball tackle?

There was no charge.

[usain bolt]

On 31/10/2022 at 16:27, GeordieSaint said:

I wouldn’t pick Oldezki either. The first 5mins of the GF planeted that seed with me when Lomax waltzed passed for the opening Lees try.

Only three changes from the Samoa game - Bateman for McMeeken and probably Ackers for Lees. I’d start Thompson with Burgess on the bench - thought we lost a bit of intensity and punch when both Hill and Burgess rotated with Cooper and Thompson in Newcastle.

1. Tomkins 2. Young 3. Watkins 4. Farnworth 5. Makinson 6. Welsby 7. Williams 

8. Hill 9. McIllorum 10. Thompson 11. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Radley 

Subs: 14. Cooper 15. Burgess 16. Knowles 17. Ackers

Thompson only came on in the second half, lees and cooper were first on for hill and burgess. I think wane will use the same tactic again, keeping the third prop fresh to lift us when the opposition middles are flagging. Thats why i think he'll go 3 props and Knowles again on the bench. He'll then use Radley as back up 9 when mcillorum is withdrawn. Tomkins, Welsby and Williams all jump in at 9 during the game to preserve mcillorum, Tomkins especially patrols round the ruck more than ever, and also kicks the ball as much as the halves

[DACS]

Prior was the problem for that Sts try in the GF - way too slow to react and left a yawning gap. 

Although a Leeds fan I think Oledzki just doesn't hit the line hard enough with the ball, particularly post contact. He can be a solid  prop alongside an impact player, but at international level he's not someone I'd want starting when you've got defenders aiming for big hits. His defence is good, but against Aus/NZ etc he'll be up against bigger, more powerful forwards who can also defend. For me at international level he'd be a bench rotation prop, not for impact but just to be solid while others are having a breather.

[usain bolt]

When's the England squad due to be announced?

[WN83]

It’ll be today I think.

Wane said in the press conference the 17 is picked and there will be ‘a couple’ of changes from the Newcastle game. Bateman for McMeekan will be one you’d imagine and then maybe Ackers for a forward?! All guesswork, maybe he’ll want Sneyd in with the weather looking wet. He also confirmed Watkins is fit and ready to play. 

[Chrispmartha]

Really not sure what Oledski has done to upset Wane

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

[usain bolt]

On 31/10/2022 at 11:46, usain bolt said:

I think wane will go

1 Tomkins 

2 Makinson 3 Watkins 4 Farnworth 5 Young 

6 Welsby 7 Williams 

8 Hill 9 Mcillorum 10 Burgess 

11 Whitehead 12 Bateman 

13 Radley 

14 Lees 15 Knowles 16 Thompson 17 Cooper 

18 Ackers 19 Mcmeeken 

 

Pearce Paul for Thompson 

Sneyd for Ackers 

Wasn't far off on the 19 selection, no surprises for me other than Thompson not in the 19 at all. Think he'll go mcmeeken bench for Thompson, the rest as above

[Saint Toppy]

19 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Really not sure what Oledski has done to upset Wane

Don't think its a case of 'upsetting' him, more the case Wane doesn't think he's as good as the forwards he's picked

[Saint Toppy]

18 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Sneyd & KPP to miss out for me of that 19

Tomkins, Makinson, Watkins, Farnworth, Young, Welsby, Williams, Hill, McIlorum, Burgess, Whitehead, Bateman, Radley - Knowles, McMeeken, Cooper, Lees.

PNG's game is based around getting dominance with their forwards so i suspect Wane will go with 4 forwards on the bench, particularly as its going to be a wet weather game.