Rhino's new tactics?

[POR]

Leeds Rhinos could become short kick-off specialists in 2023 as part of Rohan Smith's evolving philosophy ahead of his first full season in charge. The Australian has admitted his side may adopt contested restarts on a regular basis next year after testing the waters in recent games.

The Rhinos regularly attempted short kick-offs in the exhibition match against New Zealand and did the same in the Boxing Day hit-out against Wakefield Trinity, retrieving the ball back on several occasions across both games.

[ivans82]

Don`t really know why this went out of favour (probably an Australian idea ) , but it makes sense . Why just kick the ball down field hoping the other side will knock on or you are able to contain them down there .What usually happens is you contain them for a few tackles and the give a penalty away .

[Mr Frisky]

Well it worked well for them in the NZ game.

[redjonn]

16 minutes ago, ivans82 said:

Don`t really know why this went out of favour (probably an Australian idea ) , but it makes sense . Why just kick the ball down field hoping the other side will knock on or you are able to contain them down there .What usually happens is you contain them for a few tackles and the give a penalty away .

depends how good your defence is I guess.  In the boxing day game after initial success it just meant Wakefield gained a try from a good percentage of kick off's.  On the day Leeds defensive tackling and positioning was maybe poor.

Keeping the other team on their toe's and hence having to position in case of short kick off maybe useful. If doing every time and given watching boxing days I would scratch me head...

I would assume it went out of favour for a reason...

[Magic Superbeetle]

16 minutes ago, ivans82 said:

Don`t really know why this went out of favour (probably an Australian idea ) , but it makes sense . Why just kick the ball down field hoping the other side will knock on or you are able to contain them down there .What usually happens is you contain them for a few tackles and the give a penalty away .

Once the shock factor diminishes and teams expect it, the problem becomes conceding the ball on the 40m line rather than the 10m line. If the opposition regathers the ball from a short kick off, then chances are they’ll finish the set in an attacking position, putting yourself under unnecessary pressure for a gimmick. It becomes risk reward in that the chance of getting the ball back needs to be high enough to risk the opposition going back to back. This is why we do still see kick offs at the end of matches when teams are willing to accept higher risks for the sake of winning.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, redjonn said:

I would assume it went out of favour for a reason...

Because it becomes very easy very quickly for your opponents to read what is happening and get possession near the halfway line rather than deep in their own half.

[Dunbar]

24 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Because it becomes very easy very quickly for your opponents to read what is happening and get possession near the halfway line rather than deep in their own half.

Becomes very easy to read yes.  Very easy to gain possession is another matter.  A well executed short kick off is probably not a 50/50 chance of gaining possession (I would argue the receiving team will always be favourites due to positioning) but it does provide the kicking team a good chance of securing possession.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

24 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Because it becomes very easy very quickly for your opponents to read what is happening and get possession near the halfway line rather than deep in their own half.

Yeah it's definitely much harder to nail a decent short kick off in league where you kick from a tee, compared to union where it's essentially a shallow drop kick. I'm all for mix up phases of play but restarts are pretty tried and tested now. The success rates for teams trying it near the end of game is quite low I would've thought, so I doubt this is going to prove to be a tactic teams adopt. 

[DoubleD]

40 minutes ago, redjonn said:

depends how good your defence is I guess.  In the boxing day game after initial success it just meant Wakefield gained a try from a good percentage of kick off's.  On the day Leeds defensive tackling and positioning was maybe poor.

Keeping the other team on their toe's and hence having to position in case of short kick off maybe useful. If doing every time and given watching boxing days I would scratch me head...

I would assume it went out of favour for a reason...

It certainly didn’t have a great success rate in the Wakefield game. 

Critical to the success of this though is having players who have good ability to capture the high ball. If Leeds field Handley, MacDonald and Newman then this makes some sense, as provided the kick off is executed well enough, we should win more contests than we lose

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, POR said:

Leeds Rhinos could become short kick-off specialists in 2023 as part of Rohan Smith's evolving philosophy ahead of his first full season in charge. The Australian has admitted his side may adopt contested restarts on a regular basis next year after testing the waters in recent games.

The Rhinos regularly attempted short kick-offs in the exhibition match against New Zealand and did the same in the Boxing Day hit-out against Wakefield Trinity, retrieving the ball back on several occasions across both games.

Which side kept doing it in the WC in one game? Was it Wales ?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

6 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

It certainly didn’t have a great success rate in the Wakefield game. 

Critical to the success of this though is having players who have good ability to capture the high ball. If Leeds field Handley, MacDonald and Newman then this makes some sense, as provided the kick off is executed well enough, we should win more contests than we lose

Getting Walters underneath makes sense if he stays second row 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

50 minutes ago, redjonn said:

depends how good your defence is I guess.  In the boxing day game after initial success it just meant Wakefield gained a try from a good percentage of kick off's.  

Depends on how good the kicker is.....the higher the better ...

Actually.....does it HAVE to be off a tee in RL...is it a rule ?

[ehbandit]

29 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Which side kept doing it in the WC in one game? Was it Wales ?

Jamaica against NZ

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

I seem to recall Pat Richards seeking to develop a high looping kick-off that gave his team mates the chance to get to about the 30 metre line.  If you can do that, then even if you fail to secure possession, the defending team is being tackled for the first time at round about the point on the field where they would with a 'conventional' deep kick-off return.

I have always been surprised at the disinclination of teams to go back to what I think was, at one time, standard practice.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, ivans82 said:

Don`t really know why this went out of favour (probably an Australian idea ) , but it makes sense . Why just kick the ball down field hoping the other side will knock on or you are able to contain them down there .What usually happens is you contain them for a few tackles and the give a penalty away .

That isn't true though. What 'usually' happens, is that you defend a set of six and it finishes between the 40-50m line, instead of starting there with a short kick. 

That's why it went out of favour, it's a territory and lower risk play.

[Jughead]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That isn't true though. What 'usually' happens, is that you defend a set of six and it finishes between the 40-50m line, instead of starting there with a short kick. 

That's why it went out of favour, it's a territory and lower risk play.

This was my understanding of it. If you can defend a set inside the opponents forty, you’re more likely to receive the ball in a more favourable position that them completing a defensive set within your 20m and risking a repeat set/penalty/try conceded.

 

[Man of Kent]

Very Leeds. And why not? Kicking long all but guarantees the opposition possession, kicking short considerably reduces the odds. 

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

54 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

It certainly didn’t have a great success rate in the Wakefield game

I thought it went OK for Leeds early doors, especially when they targeted little Lee Kershaw.  Leeds probably carried it on a bit too long as the young centre Law seemed to move up and cope.

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That isn't true though. What 'usually' happens, is that you defend a set of six and it finishes between the 40-50m line, instead of starting there with a short kick. 

That's why it went out of favour, it's a territory and lower risk play.

I don't ever remember it being in favour much TBH. A strike thing you might do once or twice a game (absolute tops) but something of a sign that you were now chasing the game a bit.

[SalfordSlim]

I've always wondered why teams didn't try the short kick off more against Salford when we've not had big guys out wide. If you're playing against shorter wingers (Rhys Williams/McGillvary/Liam Marshall are all under 5'10) and you've got the likes of the Senior twins, Joe Burgess it's got to be a decent option from time to time? Same with your centres & 2nd rows. Obviously doing it 100% of the time and the opposing team would just reshuffle their players positionally to nullify the threat.

I've never analysed the kick off a huge deal but do all teams line up the same when receiving? (ie props in in-goal, halves on try-line to receive kick etc)

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, ehbandit said:

Jamaica against NZ

Yes if course...think it worked a few times from memory 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I seem to recall Pat Richards seeking to develop a high looping kick-off that gave his team mates the chance to get to about the 30 metre line.  If you can do that, then even if you fail to secure possession, the defending team is being tackled for the first time at round about the point on the field where they would with a 'conventional' deep kick-off return.

I have always been surprised at the disinclination of teams to go back to what I think was, at one time, standard practice.

Yes the kicker is as key as the relative heights of the people catching 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I'd like to see more risky plays. I completely understand why they kick long, but it's a bit boring!

I miss the amateur days where they'd just boot it straight at a player in front of them!

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

36 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'd like to see more risky plays. I completely understand why they kick long, but it's a bit boring!

I miss the amateur days where they'd just boot it straight at a player in front of them!

I wholly agree, Wellsy.

It is why it is/was always good to see players like Jake Connor, Lee Briers, Tony Gigot and Hakim Miloudi in an adventurous mood.  Fans at Albi should be in for some fun with Miloudi and Gigot both playing for them now!

[ivans82]

Think there is nothing more predictable than kicking it long to the same player that hasn`t knocked it on the previous half a dozen times  , mix it up !