IMG Grading Unveiled

[GUBRATS]

26 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Or you could use percentage of home games played in that area and add together. Might encourage some clubs to take the odd game on the road to a bigger market.

Example with simple numbers (10 home games)...

9 home games at usual home in area of 100k population = 90k (90%)

1 home game in the road in area of 1m = 100k (10%)

190k reach.

 

Obviously not that simple, but could be reasonable calculation.

 

That then needs to offset other risks to attendance, profit margins, etc. to deduce whether it's worth it for the extra marks.

You mean ' Cheat ' ?

[Tommygilf]

To take the "catchment area" argument here.

At half time tonight Leeds have teams from, other than the loads of juniors from Leeds, Doncaster and Wakefield.

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

34 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

To take the "catchment area" argument here.

At half time tonight Leeds have teams from, other than the loads of juniors from Leeds, Doncaster and Wakefield.

You can’t include junior side playing a pre match tournament as a catchment argument.  Similar happens at most clubs, at Wakefield as well as the Wakefield teams we’ve had sides from Leeds Dewsbury Huddersfield probably other areas playing pre match.

Edited July 14, 2023 by WakefieldCityLoyal

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said:

You can’t include junior side playing a pre match tournament as a catchment argument.  Similar happens at most clubs, at Wakefield as well as the Wakefield teams we’ve had sides from Leeds Dewsbury Huddersfield probably other areas playing pre match.

My point was rather how difficult these "catchment areas" are difficult to describe.

[GUBRATS]

19 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

My point was rather how difficult these "catchment areas" are difficult to describe.

Which shows how stupid it is to try , we are not Euro Basketball 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which shows how stupid it is to try , we are not Euro Basketball 

We aren't but it is a blunt instrument that will be refined. 

I think fwiw it will achieve what it is intended to. But there are more realistic (and more complex) measures that could be put in place.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

We aren't but it is a blunt instrument that will be refined. 

I think fwiw it will achieve what it is intended to. But there are more realistic (and more complex) measures that could be put in place.

It's Nero with his fiddle 

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It's Nero with his fiddle 

Its not, its an IMG employee saying "how do we prove a point?"

[SUPERSTUD]

I still do not think that any club will be relegated from Super League at the end of this season. I can already envisage a threat of a legal challenge being put forward by the wooden spoonists along the lines of the goalposts were moved partway through the season. IMG proposals were not in place at the commencement of SL 2023. Get ready people.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, SUPERSTUD said:

I still do not think that any club will be relegated from Super League at the end of this season. I can already envisage a threat of a legal challenge being put forward by the wooden spoonists along the lines of the goalposts were moved partway through the season. IMG proposals were not in place at the commencement of SL 2023. Get ready people.

So we go to 13/14 ?

[SUPERSTUD]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So we go to 13/14 ?

I have no inside information whatsoever how it will ultimately pan out. I just have a nagging feeling that there will be at least one twist on the horizon.

[GUBRATS]

10 minutes ago, SUPERSTUD said:

I have no inside information whatsoever how it will ultimately pan out. I just have a nagging feeling that there will be at least one twist on the horizon.

Matters not , but if nobody goes down , somebody will come up , that makes 13

[bobbruce]

32 minutes ago, SUPERSTUD said:

I still do not think that any club will be relegated from Super League at the end of this season. I can already envisage a threat of a legal challenge being put forward by the wooden spoonists along the lines of the goalposts were moved partway through the season. IMG proposals were not in place at the commencement of SL 2023. Get ready people.

I didn’t think img proposals had anything to do with P&R this year. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

I didn’t think img proposals had anything to do with P&R this year. 

They don't, the conspiracy theorists are out early this season.

[gingerjon]

5 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

They don't, the conspiracy theorists are out early this season.

When you haven't bothered to read about anything since Framing the Future, then everything looks like Framing the Future.

[The Phantom Horseman]

9 hours ago, SUPERSTUD said:

I have no inside information whatsoever how it will ultimately pan out. I just have a nagging feeling that there will be at least one twist on the horizon.

 

[The Blues Ox]

Maybe one idea would be to use the catchment area as they have but then also include some sort of points scoring system built in to that in relation to how many proffesional players were produced by that area. Halifax are a decent example of how it could work in that we are punished for having a small catchment area compared to other teams but we will be in the top 3 catchment areas for producing players for the pro game. It seems counter productive that areas are judged soley on their size rather than what they bring to the game.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I think catchment area shouldn't be based on population of a post code. More on the radius from your base, with diminishing returns the further out the radius is. It's true catchment areas can extend for many miles, but they're less likely to come the further out you go.

Clubs in huge areas should rightly have an advantage. It's unfair to judge someone like Castleford on their town's population when they're in a highly populated metropolitan area where they likely draw a lot of support from. At the same time, that extended support should be weighted against the distance they'd need to travel + competition from other clubs.

It is (and should be) a more complicated formula.

[Barley Mow]

24 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I think catchment area shouldn't be based on population of a post code. More on the radius from your base, with diminishing returns the further out the radius is. It's true catchment areas can extend for many miles, but they're less likely to come the further out you go.

Clubs in huge areas should rightly have an advantage. It's unfair to judge someone like Castleford on their town's population when they're in a highly populated metropolitan area where they likely draw a lot of support from. At the same time, that extended support should be weighted against the distance they'd need to travel + competition from other clubs.

It is (and should be) a more complicated formula.

I still think that if they are having catchment areas, they should use the data clubs hold on where their fans actually are.

Clubs have addresses for people purchasing tickets/season tickets and merchandise. Use that to work out which clubs are 'dominant' in a postcode sector and award points for population numbers in the clubs dominant area.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Dave T]

25 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I still think that if they are having catchment areas, they should use the data clubs hold on where their fans actually are.

Clubs have addresses for people purchasing tickets/season tickets and merchandise. Use that to work out which clubs are 'dominant' in a postcode sector and award points for population numbers in the clubs dominant area.

I expect that would deliver the same results tbh. Expect a mass proportion to be within a few miles of the base. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

25 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I still think that if they are having catchment areas, they should use the data clubs hold on where their fans actually are.

Clubs have addresses for people purchasing tickets/season tickets and merchandise. Use that to work out which clubs are 'dominant' in a postcode sector and award points for population numbers in the clubs dominant area.

So does that mean when I lived in WD17 if there weren't any other clubs' season ticket holders living there Fev would have been able to claim that population?

[GUBRATS]

Or just don't , but help them all to increase their attendances/engagement 

[Barley Mow]

45 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

So does that mean when I lived in WD17 if there weren't any other clubs' season ticket holders living there Fev would have been able to claim that population?

That's why I suggested postcode sector. WD17 is the postcode district, the sector is based on the number that follows.

There are about 3,000 households in each sector, so that would avoid clubs claiming populations of tens or hundreds of thousands based on a single supporter.

But yes, there could be anomalies because of long distance fans 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Barley Mow

[GUBRATS]

Why does it matter where your fans come from ? 

All that matters is how many you have , and increasing that number , not crazy different ways of ' potential ' numbers , and certainly , not ways of making certain clubs look better than they are 

This is madness 

[Barley Mow]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Why does it matter where your fans come from ? 

All that matters is how many you have , and increasing that number , not crazy different ways of ' potential ' numbers , and certainly , not ways of making certain clubs look better than they are 

This is madness 

I'm not a fan of the grading system to designate league places at all myself.

But if they're having it and are including a score for catchment area, then there has to be a better way to demonstrate it than dividing the population of the local authority by the number of clubs there.