The case for two-point field-goals

[Griff]

1 minute ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Definitely, at pro level as long as the touch judges were in place you could definitely drop kick a conversion. 

Did it ever happen?

[ELBOWSEYE]

7 minutes ago, Griff said:

Did it ever happen?

Our totalrl forum had a discussion on whether it was legal in 2018 after Sneyd did one. 

[Griff]

3 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Our totalrl forum had a discussion on whether it was legal in 2018 after Sneyd did one. 

Might be more productive to review the rugby league news items around, say, the close season of 2017/18.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Griff

[ELBOWSEYE]

5 minutes ago, Griff said:

Might be more productive to review the rugby league news items around, say, the close season of 2017/18.

I just googled it and thats what came up, not very adapt at putting links on but the headline was Drop kick conversion April 2018 

Edited March 30, 2023 by ELBOWSEYE

[Griff]

26 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

I just googled it and thats what came up, not very adapt at putting links on but the headline was Drop kick conversion April 2018 

Anyway ...... the 2022 version of the rules on the IRL website says you can drop kick a conversion.

Getting back to the original question, I'm against two point drop goals from more than 40 metres out. It's the thin end of the wedge. What would be next? 

[sam4731]

No no no. No more rule changes please! There are too many rules as it is.

"Let's introduce new rules to make the game more exciting" ... "Why can't the referees do their job?"

[corvusxiii]

I'm thinking why should a mere drop negate/neutralise a hard earned two point lead but then thought that a drop is surely more worthy than a conversion under the posts.

All of a sudden....

[Griff]

55 minutes ago, corvusxiii said:

I'm thinking why should a mere drop negate/neutralise a hard earned two point lead but then thought that a drop is surely more worthy than a conversion under the posts.

All of a sudden....

Let's not forget why the drop goal was devalued.

[Steve Slater]

10 hours ago, Griff said:

Let's not forget why the drop goal was devalued.

The drop goal was devalued somewhere around the turn of the decade in the late 70's or early 80's because the game was becoming plagued with them. Two drop goals were equal to a fantastic unconverted try scored out wide. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory seems to recall Tony Dean being one of the biggest exponents of the game whilst playing for either Hunslet or Batley? Graham Beale of Keighley also springs to mind?

It was also much harder to execute under the 5 metre rule, so would be an easier option in the modern game, and two easy points could easily become the deciding factor in a close contest. 

[Griff]

31 minutes ago, Steve Slater said:

The drop goal was devalued somewhere around the turn of the decade in the late 70's or early 80's because the game was becoming plagued with them. Two drop goals were equal to a fantastic unconverted try scored out wide. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory seems to recall Tony Dean being one of the biggest exponents of the game whilst playing for either Hunslet or Batley? Graham Beale of Keighley also springs to mind?

It was also much harder to execute under the 5 metre rule, so would be an easier option in the modern game, and two easy points could easily become the deciding factor in a close contest. 

Two drop goals were worth more than an unconverted try.

Drop goals were devalued in 1973 in the UK but elsewhere, they'd been at one point for a while.

There were a few drop goals in the 1971 Challenge Cup Final.

[Steve Slater]

10 minutes ago, Griff said:

Two drop goals were worth more than an unconverted try.

Drop goals were devalued in 1973 in the UK but elsewhere, they'd been at one point for a while.

There were a few drop goals in the 1971 Challenge Cup Final.

Wow! I thought it was later than 1973, but that's what your memory does to you in old age?

[Big Picture]

15 minutes ago, Steve Slater said:

Wow! I thought it was later than 1973, but that's what your memory does to you in old age?

If you're ever unsure when a rule change was made and want to check, you can see the history of rule changes at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_rugby_league#History_of_changes_to_the_Laws.

[Saint Toppy]

23 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

According to the rules, the conversion of a try has to be a place kick.

When did that change ?

I remember Saints taking a drop instead of a place kick in a game back in the 80's to save time and get another set to try and score again to win the match.

[Griff]

6 hours ago, Big Picture said:

If you're ever unsure when a rule change was made and want to check, you can see the history of rule changes at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_rugby_league#History_of_changes_to_the_Laws.

That'll be the biggest entry in Wiki, no doubt.

[Griff]

53 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

When did that change ?

I remember Saints taking a drop instead of a place kick in a game back in the 80's to save time and get another set to try and score again to win the match.

The 2017 version on the RFL site still has a place kick as mandatory.   The 2022 version on the IRL site has drop goal or place kick.   The change was for the 2018 season.

As far as I recall, a drop kick from a conversion was never allowed before 2018 but you're not the first on this thread to claim they'd seen it happen.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Has anyone ever seen a penalty kick disallowed because another player has touched the ball (or v/v) before it crosses the crossbar after being kicked?

[yipyee]

On 30/03/2023 at 16:45, Jughead said:

No case from me, I’m not a fan, personally. I think we do golden point wrong (if we even need it in the first place) and I’m not a fan of the two point drop goal. 

The good thing with golden point is there are opportunity's for players to gain experience in extra time.

Maybe saints wouldn't have won in penrith if they hadn't played golden point games over here and let's be honest they messed up a couple of field goal attempts

[GUBRATS]

Bring back Alex j

[Tommygilf]

Sinfield kicked a drop goal conversion away against Wigan in 2015 I think.

I think there is a logic to having the same number of points for every time the ball is kicked through the posts, but its hardly the most important issue in the game.

[Padge]

On 31/03/2023 at 00:00, Griff said:

Let's not forget why the drop goal was devalued.

This ^^^

[JF1]

I say keep them at 1 point. A certain other game values them at the equivalent of a penalty goal,that cannot be right in my opinion.

Who could ever forget Joe Lydon's effort from his own half in the Cup semi final,a game many wanted Warrington to win because they were fed up of seeing Wigan at Wembley.

[Llangennech]

On 30/03/2023 at 16:45, Jughead said:

No case from me, I’m not a fan, personally. I think we do golden point wrong (if we even need it in the first place) and I’m not a fan of the two point drop goal. 

IMO it should be golden TRY extra-time, so I agree with you on that. However IMO all drop-goals should have to be taken over the 40m line, short drop-goal doesn't lend itself to RL, as defenced can see when the acting half-back is gonna get the ball in his/her hands. So it should always be a 2-point drop-goal in RL. 

[Wilderspoolmemories]

On 30/03/2023 at 17:12, Martyn Sadler said:

We already have two-point drop goals, which can be kicked after a penalty is awarded.

 

That's a penalty or a conversation thought isn't it rather than a drop goal. It's always been the rule that the ball doesn't have to be place kicked from the ground. A drop goal is a goal kicked in general play, not a conversion or penalty which just happens to have been kicked from the hands.

[Wilderspoolmemories]

On 31/03/2023 at 16:59, Saint Toppy said:

When did that change ?

I remember Saints taking a drop instead of a place kick in a game back in the 80's to save time and get another set to try and score again to win the match.

Also let's remember that if you do need another try to win the game you can decline the conversion although.

[George Watt]

On 31/03/2023 at 20:41, Steve Slater said:

The drop goal was devalued somewhere around the turn of the decade in the late 70's or early 80's because the game was becoming plagued with them. Two drop goals were equal to a fantastic unconverted try scored out wide. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory seems to recall Tony Dean being one of the biggest exponents of the game whilst playing for either Hunslet or Batley? Graham Beale of Keighley also springs to mind?

It was also much harder to execute under the 5 metre rule, so would be an easier option in the modern game, and two easy points could easily become the deciding factor in a close contest. 

In Aus. it went from 2 points to 1 in 1971 due to the prolific Souths goalkicker Eric Simms who kicked a record 86 during his career including 5 in 1 match.

In the 1970 Premiership GF Souths beat St George and Simms kicked 4. In that match the recently departed  Souths captain and legend John Sattler played with a broken jaw for over 60 mins

Having been at the recent Panthers/Eels derby match and seeing the Cleary drop goal bring the teams level at full time I am in favour of it.

Off topic, in bygone days of the 50's I was a goalkicker for teams I played for in league and union. Occasionally I did drop kick conversions in both.