Keighley Cougar owners

[Dovster]

20 minutes ago, RP London said:

But no one is saying it must be top down, even IMG say this Grading system is not there to produce expansion its there to deal with the issue now in the heartlands and to grow the game in the heartlands and make it more commercially viable. 

The expansion argument is nothing more than a red herring. 

This was in answer to a comment regarding expansion.

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, Dovster said:

I suppose all would be better if everyone laid down and let IMG tickle their bellies.

Anyone who says anything which controdicts the "IMG way forward" gets riduculed by some.

IMO the Cougars directors are standing up for what they think is right.

I’ve read everything released by Keighley and listened to a podcast with their owners. I’ve wanted to see what their opinion is and why they’re so vehemently against IMG, despite IMO being a club who are doing well and could gain from IMG. I’m yet to see anything that isn’t vague and without any detail why. 

[RP London]

24 minutes ago, Dovster said:

This was in answer to a comment regarding expansion.

I know but expansion is being used a lot to slate IMG as there is a perception this is designed for more expansion when it is not.. 

[Dovster]

13 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I’ve read everything released by Keighley and listened to a podcast with their owners. I’ve wanted to see what their opinion is and why they’re so vehemently against IMG, despite IMO being a club who are doing well and could gain from IMG. I’m yet to see anything that isn’t vague and without any detail why. 

I don't think that anyone has all the answers to why our sport hasnt realised its potential since the start of Super League. Personally I think that too many people in charge were in a comfort zone (sky money). Something does need to change.

I obviously can't speak for the Cougars directors but from my own interpretation of what they have said is that they believe sport is unique and success should be determined on the pitch rather than on a spreadsheet.

[Dovster]

7 minutes ago, RP London said:

I know but expansion is being used a lot to slate IMG as there is a perception this is designed for more expansion when it is not.. 

Agreed but that is not the point that I was making.

[Jughead]

4 minutes ago, Dovster said:

I don't think that anyone has all the answers to why our sport hasnt realised its potential since the start of Super League. Personally I think that too many people in charge were in a comfort zone (sky money). Something does need to change.

I obviously can't speak for the Cougars directors but from my own interpretation of what they have said is that they believe sport is unique and success should be determined on the pitch rather than on a spreadsheet.

But it’s going to be determined by what’s onfield. 

[Adelaide Tiger]

1 hour ago, Dovster said:

They answered many questions and put forward some ideas on the "Dockhouse" podcast.

I don't necessarily think anyone has got all the answers but at least it’s being talked about.

I listened to the owners on a podcast a couple of weeks ago and unless I misheard, one of the ideas put forward by the Keighley owners in the podcast was to kick Newcastle, Cornwall, Skolars and it may have also included the Hurricanes out of the RFL pyramid simply because they do not bring any supporters to Cougar Park and it cost Keighley around £5k to travel to Cornwall.

The solution the owners gave given was that these discarded teams ought to play in localised competitions with four or five other teams of similar ability to develop rivalries.  Where the hell are 16 other teams (4 clubs per area) at a semi pro level going to materialise from?  How does 4 home games a year sustain a semi pro club ….. absolute nonsense.

It got better. If those localised leagues actually eventuated the Keighley owners then appeared to state that those clubs - I thought they meant Newcastle, Cornwall, Skolars and Hurricanes - would be welcomed back into the RFL family even if it took the next 15 years.  But what would happen to the other 16 clubs

Apologies if I am misremembering the above as it was a couple of weeks ago since I listened to the podcast.

[RP London]

10 minutes ago, Dovster said:

Agreed but that is not the point that I was making.

so forgive me, what was the point you were making?

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I listened to the owners on a podcast a couple of weeks ago and unless I misheard, one of the ideas put forward by the Keighley owners in the podcast was to kick Newcastle, Cornwall, Skolars and it may have also included the Hurricanes out of the RFL pyramid simply because they do not bring any supporters to Cougar Park and it cost Keighley around £5k to travel to Cornwall.

The solution the owners gave given was that these discarded teams ought to play in localised competitions with four or five other teams of similar ability to develop rivalries.  Where the hell are 16 other teams (4 clubs per area) at a semi pro level going to materialise from?  How does 4 home games a year sustain a semi pro club ….. absolute nonsense.

It got better. If those localised leagues actually eventuated the Keighley owners then appeared to state that those clubs - I thought they meant Newcastle, Cornwall, Skolars and Hurricanes - would be welcomed back into the RFL family even if it took the next 15 years.  But what would happen to the other 16 clubs

Apologies if I am misremembering the above as it was a couple of weeks ago since I listened to the podcast.

It's a stupid idea and would see all those clubs fold. Newcastle have a lot of potential but they need on field success to build support. They are bottom of the Champ. People won't turn up to watch that.

[Tommygilf]

38 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I listened to the owners on a podcast a couple of weeks ago and unless I misheard, one of the ideas put forward by the Keighley owners in the podcast was to kick Newcastle, Cornwall, Skolars and it may have also included the Hurricanes out of the RFL pyramid simply because they do not bring any supporters to Cougar Park and it cost Keighley around £5k to travel to Cornwall.

The solution the owners gave given was that these discarded teams ought to play in localised competitions with four or five other teams of similar ability to develop rivalries.  Where the hell are 16 other teams (4 clubs per area) at a semi pro level going to materialise from?  How does 4 home games a year sustain a semi pro club ….. absolute nonsense.

It got better. If those localised leagues actually eventuated the Keighley owners then appeared to state that those clubs - I thought they meant Newcastle, Cornwall, Skolars and Hurricanes - would be welcomed back into the RFL family even if it took the next 15 years.  But what would happen to the other 16 clubs

Apologies if I am misremembering the above as it was a couple of weeks ago since I listened to the podcast.

Maybe, just maybe, this is just as much a sign Keighley can only afford to be in a regional league not a national one....

[OriginalMrC]

43 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I listened to the owners on a podcast a couple of weeks ago and unless I misheard, one of the ideas put forward by the Keighley owners in the podcast was to kick Newcastle, Cornwall, Skolars and it may have also included the Hurricanes out of the RFL pyramid simply because they do not bring any supporters to Cougar Park and it cost Keighley around £5k to travel to Cornwall.

The solution the owners gave given was that these discarded teams ought to play in localised competitions with four or five other teams of similar ability to develop rivalries.  Where the hell are 16 other teams (4 clubs per area) at a semi pro level going to materialise from?  How does 4 home games a year sustain a semi pro club ….. absolute nonsense.

It got better. If those localised leagues actually eventuated the Keighley owners then appeared to state that those clubs - I thought they meant Newcastle, Cornwall, Skolars and Hurricanes - would be welcomed back into the RFL family even if it took the next 15 years.  But what would happen to the other 16 clubs

Apologies if I am misremembering the above as it was a couple of weeks ago since I listened to the podcast.

Keighley have been saying this for some time. This included emailing all other clubs while in league 1 to gather support for kicking 'expansion' clubs out of the competition. I'm yet to be convinced by the IMG proposals but the very fact the Cougars are so vocal against the plans makes me think it might be a good idea after all. 

[RP London]

9 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Keighley have been saying this for some time. This included emailing all other clubs while in league 1 to gather support for kicking 'expansion' clubs out of the competition. I'm yet to be convinced by the IMG proposals but the very fact the Cougars are so vocal against the plans makes me think it might be a good idea after all. 

really??? I didnt know they did that!

[OriginalMrC]

40 minutes ago, RP London said:

really??? I didnt know they did that!

Yes their proposal was that expansion clubs be moved into a development league so they can learn how to be proper clubs and the northern clubs have regional conferences to cut travel costs. 

This was shared with all clubs in 2021. Long before the IMG proposals they are so against. 

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Yes their proposal was that expansion clubs be moved into a development league so they can learn how to be proper clubs and the northern clubs have regional conferences to cut travel costs. 

This was shared with all clubs in 2021. Long before the IMG proposals they are so against. 

thats dreadful... regional conferences maybe but to just kick out teams is poor.

[Jughead]

Ah, I remember the conferences talk. I think it centred around covid and rising costs, from memory. It was a non-starter due to it being effectively consigning a handful of clubs to death, it keeping the game small time and in the same circles and there just simply not being enough teams to make it even remotely viable. 

I just don’t get Keighley. Their crowds have been decent, their engagement with the local community appears good, their playing squad is reasonable and they have permission for a new stand. They’re hitting some of the parameters laid out by IMG already and appear in a reasonably strong place as a club. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Jughead

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:

Keighley have been saying this for some time. This included emailing all other clubs while in league 1 to gather support for kicking 'expansion' clubs out of the competition. I'm yet to be convinced by the IMG proposals but the very fact the Cougars are so vocal against the plans makes me think it might be a good idea after all. 

Was it not just a 'discussion document', like IMG gave out,in the belief,as rumoured at the time, that central funding would cease?

 

17 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I just don’t get Keighley. Their crowds have been decent, their engagement with the local community appears good, their playing squad is reasonable and they have permission for a new stand. They’re hitting some of the parameters laid out by IMG already and appear in a reasonably strong place as a club. 

 The parameters have changed;as of today,seemingly.

Yet reports were that clubs would support the original 'Gradings'.

Could it be that IMG flip flop more than Super League club owners/RFL when it was about structures? Is a Super League club owner directing the USA Marketing experts?

What will they come out with/alter next?

Edited April 5, 2023 by Angelic Cynic

[Jughead]

4 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Was it not just a 'discussion document', like IMG gave out,in the belief,as rumoured at the time, that central funding would cease?

 

 The parameters have changed;as of today,seemingly.

Yet reports were that clubs would support the original 'Gradings'.

Could it be that IMG flip flop more than Super League club owners/RFL when it was about structures? Is a Super League club owner directing the USA Marketing experts?

What will they come out with/alter next?

It’s at the consultation stage with clubs, so it’s no conspiracy on anything being tweaked or changed. 

Either way, Keighley have done a lot of good which happens to tie in with the criteria laid out by IMG. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:

Keighley have been saying this for some time. This included emailing all other clubs while in league 1 to gather support for kicking 'expansion' clubs out of the competition. I'm yet to be convinced by the IMG proposals but the very fact the Cougars are so vocal against the plans makes me think it might be a good idea after all. 

So Keighley can't afford the cost of competing in a national competition, and their solution is to kick other teams out? 

I've got a better suggestion...

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

So Keighley can't afford the cost of competing in a national competition, and their solution is to kick other teams out? 

I've got a better suggestion...

Ultimately I think this is a symptom of having not enough clubs to fully flesh out a proper pyramid. If we did, a club like Keighley would probably play in a Northern or even a Yorkshire regional league and only play in a national level league when £5k travel costs weren't that big a deal.

We don't have enough clubs to regionalise so here we are.

[theswanmcr]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Ultimately I think this is a symptom of having not enough clubs to fully flesh out a proper pyramid. If we did, a club like Keighley would probably play in a Northern or even a Yorkshire regional league and only play in a national level league when £5k travel costs weren't that big a deal.

We don't have enough clubs to regionalise so here we are.

Some really good points there. However it seems that Keighley’s answer to this conundrum is to…

1) Moan that SL is a closed shop cartel looking after their own selfish interests.

2) Kick out all southern teams to create a northern cartel looking after their own selfish interests.

Keighley - the UK’s first official irony free zone

 

[dkw]

30 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Some really good points there. However it seems that Keighley’s answer to this conundrum is to…

1) Moan that SL is a closed shop cartel looking after their own selfish interests.

2) Kick out all southern teams to create a northern cartel looking after their own selfish interests.

Keighley - the UK’s first official irony free zone

 

Incredible isn't it, such a ridiculously insular view. What next, not happy with the costs of travelling to them new fangled Cumbrian sides, bin them off into their own league too.

Lancashire is a bit of a trek too, petrols expensive don't you know, So bin them off too, and Hull clubs as the A63 sucks. Sheffield is over an hour away....that's nearly another country....out.

York and Cas are out, wrong side of Leeds unfortunately. Wakefield are borderline.....ah sod it, they're out too. 

So, a league of Bradford, Keighley (obviously), Leeds, Halifax, Huddersfield,  Hunslet and.....that'll do.

[Just Browny]

7 minutes ago, dkw said:

Incredible isn't it, such a ridiculously insular view. What next, not happy with the costs of travelling to them new fangled Cumbrian sides, bin them off into their own league too.

Lancashire is a bit of a trek too, petrols expensive don't you know, So bin them off too, and Hull clubs as the A63 sucks. Sheffield is over an hour away....that's nearly another country....out.

York and Cas are out, wrong side of Leeds unfortunately. Wakefield are borderline.....ah sod it, they're out too. 

So, a league of Bradford, Keighley (obviously), Leeds, Halifax, Huddersfield,  Hunslet and.....that'll do.

You can't have Leeds and Huddersfield in, they will just buy success. Rugby shouldn't be played with a spreadsheet.

[RigbyLuger]

Forget the argument over "atmosphere" and the like, if your business relies on away fans, you've got the wrong attitude. You should want to build the biggest fan base you can, not denigrate others.

[Dovster]

WOW A great deal of anti-Cougar feeling. 

So glad we have courts and jury's to decide guilt in this country.

Too much drivel and nonsense  to answer I'm affraid.

I think I'll move on and leave you too it. Maybe eventually you will eat each other.

 

[GeordieSaint]

10 minutes ago, Dovster said:

WOW A great deal of anti-Cougar feeling. 

So glad we have courts and jury's to decide guilt in this country.

Too much drivel and nonsense  to answer I'm affraid.

I think I'll move on and leave you too it. Maybe eventually you will eat each other.

 

What are your thoughts on them writing to all the other League 1 clubs to kick out the expansion sides? 

What are your thoughts on them complaining about £5k expenses to travel to Cornwall when they have ‘aspirations to play in SL’?